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Ukraine Invasion: Part 17

998 replies

MagicFox · 27/03/2022 07:23

A new place for us to convene, thread 17.

OP posts:
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33
RedToothBrush · 31/03/2022 21:44

Really useful map for visualising Ukrainian/Russian gains in the last week. The other maps on the thread are also really good. It shows Ukraine has gained more than its lost in the last week.

twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1509520929084547073

On of the things it doesn't show is that apparently Ukraine are getting close to regaining ground contact with Chernihiv.

Thats show here in this tweet:
twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1509581356669763588

Given the dire straits the city is in, with things said to be approaching as bad as Mariupol, that would be fairly significant.

jgw1 · 31/03/2022 21:49

@RedToothBrush

James Cleverly *@JamesCleverly* 40s United Kingdom government official Good first meeting with Armenian Ambassador *@VaruzhanN* earlier today.

Useful discussions on the importance of a diplomatic solution on Nagorno-Karabakh and development of UK an Armenian future partnership opportunities as we celebrate 30 years of relations.

Oh won't you look at that. How 'coincidental'.

Another Brexit bonus presenting itself.
RedToothBrush · 31/03/2022 21:58

Trent Telenko @TrentTelenko
The Ukrainian multi-copter drones in the video are dropping adapted rifle grenades using civilian tech thermal sights.

These are weaponized commercial drones and the US Secret Service is having a heart attack looking at this, no joke.

Erm.

This is a little bit scary. To say the least.

But hats off to the Ukrainians for the ingenuity out of necessity.

Iwasfeelingepic · 31/03/2022 22:09

@RedToothBrush

Trent Telenko *@TrentTelenko* The Ukrainian multi-copter drones in the video are dropping adapted rifle grenades using civilian tech thermal sights.

These are weaponized commercial drones and the US Secret Service is having a heart attack looking at this, no joke.

Erm.

This is a little bit scary. To say the least.

But hats off to the Ukrainians for the ingenuity out of necessity.

Probably a daft question, but why are the secret service worried?
elephantmarchingin · 31/03/2022 22:14

Is anyone else nervous about Russia pulling out of Chernobyl? Not sure if it's just my anxiety kicking in

jgw1 · 31/03/2022 22:14

Probably a daft question, but why are the secret service worried?

Presumably because pretty much anyone could make them in their garage.

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2022 22:15

They have used commercial drones and civilian thermal sights - ones anyone can buy in the shops, to drop adapted grenades onto Russia targets.

If you are responsible for keeping people safe elsewhere in the world, thats going to be a touch worrying...

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 31/03/2022 22:16

Probably a daft question, but why are the secret service worried?

Because once those drones have been used like like this in Ukraine, what to stop someone from using them somewhere else?

Igotjelly · 31/03/2022 22:16

@elephantmarchingin

Is anyone else nervous about Russia pulling out of Chernobyl? Not sure if it's just my anxiety kicking in
I’ve seen reports they’re all suffering from acute radiation sickness, which would explain their rush to leave.
RedToothBrush · 31/03/2022 22:16

@elephantmarchingin

Is anyone else nervous about Russia pulling out of Chernobyl? Not sure if it's just my anxiety kicking in
No I'm not particular nervous.

It wasn't serving much of an advantage to them tbh.

Igotjelly · 31/03/2022 22:21

Just musing that the West’s intel so far has been pretty spot on, they’re now saying Putin is isolated/not being told things etc. Can we assume, given it’s such a small inner circle, that there is a leak in the Kremlin’s ship somewhere? How else do the West have access to such info. I guess can tap phones etc but that’s surely limited.

jgw1 · 31/03/2022 22:26

@Igotjelly

Just musing that the West’s intel so far has been pretty spot on, they’re now saying Putin is isolated/not being told things etc. Can we assume, given it’s such a small inner circle, that there is a leak in the Kremlin’s ship somewhere? How else do the West have access to such info. I guess can tap phones etc but that’s surely limited.
Or they are trying to give that impression to make Putin more paranoid.
RedToothBrush · 31/03/2022 23:16

They could have psychologists who have enough information to be able to make a damn good crack at whats going on too.

strawberriesarenot · 31/03/2022 23:34

The situation surely can't be hidden from the Russian people forever. Are they going to get an enormous shock very soon?

PerkingFaintly · 31/03/2022 23:59

@strawberriesarenot

The situation surely can't be hidden from the Russian people forever. Are they going to get an enormous shock very soon?
It's ironic that a stock-in-trade of Russian troll-farm clickbait for overseas audiences is, "What They don't want you to know... The things They are hiding from you... You're being censored by Them...."

As an aside, I have wondered how the trolls are coping at the moment. From previous articles, they seem to typically be young, highly online folk – exactly the demographic to access external news sources about Ukraine. Also the right age to be conscripted or have brothers conscripted.

I'm half expecting trouble at t'mill.

shreddednips · 01/04/2022 00:07

@elephantmarchingin

Is anyone else nervous about Russia pulling out of Chernobyl? Not sure if it's just my anxiety kicking in
Not especially. From what I've read, Russian troops have been driving through highly radioactive soil, churning up dust and then inhaling it. I'm pretty sure I read that a lot have been taken to Belarus to have treatment for radiation sickness, so I can't imagine they were in a position to hold it much longer anyway.
DesdamonasHandkerchief · 01/04/2022 00:29

Reported in The Times:

Hundreds of soldiers from the pro-Russian enclave of South Ossetia have deserted their posts and hitchhiked home in what is thought to be the first case of mass mutiny in the war.
Eduard Kokoity, a former president of the breakaway state, confirmed that 300 soldiers had returned to South Ossetia after pictures emerged of fighters trying to get lifts from Vladikavkaz in southern Russia.
According to Ukraine’s general staff, 1,200 troops from South Ossetia and 800 from neighbouring Abkhazia have been deployed in Ukraine.

BreadInCaptivity · 01/04/2022 00:48

@strawberriesarenot

The situation surely can't be hidden from the Russian people forever. Are they going to get an enormous shock very soon?

That's an interesting question.

Firstly, it assumes that the situation is hidden from the Russian people.

Yes, the media is full propaganda mode but the demonstrations in Moscow at the start of the war at least demonstrate that some Russians at least have an awareness of what is happening.

I'm also reasonably certain that people in Russia who want to find alternative sources of information can probably do so.

The real question is why so many Russians are actively or passively supporting Putin - including those with relatives in Ukraine who don't believe what close family are telling them what they have witnessed.

Fundamentally I believe there are parallels with Nazi Germany where many people turned a blind eye to seeing with their own eyes what was happening to Jewish members of their communities - people they had socialised, done business, worked with.

Deep down there is a sense of "they deserved it" and "we are better" and "I'm on the side of right".

Sounds horrible? Yes. But are we any different? Realistically how many people in the U.K. actively protested about going to war in Iraq and the "rational" of weapons of mass destruction?

How do you think we as a nation would have reacted if hit by harsh sanctions by other countries? Would we have been on the streets ready to overthrow the government (irrespective of the far lesser risks of doing so in a democracy) or would we have found our national pride and dug deep to find our resolve in fighting this economic assault on our country?

Humans are complex and we have biases and loyalties that are deeply ingrained, that frankly we never notice until tested.

The assumption that Russians will rail against Putin I think is misguided. Rather I think the harsh impact of sanctions will bind them to him.

To be clear I'm not suggesting sanctions should not be used - other than boots on the ground what are the options? Rather my thinking is that it might impact how Putin behaves/alters his strategy but I don't believe it's going to result in a popular uprising.

People get inured to war and this "special operation" isn't Putin's first rodeo. For many Russian people this is "same again" albeit with with higher stakes but they are used to winning- because the West pussy footed around Putin for two decades.

WillSmithsRightHook · 01/04/2022 03:37

.

Iwasfeelingepic · 01/04/2022 05:48

@jgw1

Probably a daft question, but why are the secret service worried?

Presumably because pretty much anyone could make them in their garage.

Thanks. I did think that but thought I'd check in case I was missing something.
borntobequiet · 01/04/2022 06:41

Probably a daft question, but why are the secret service worried?

You can probably buy the drones and other components in Walmart on a regular shopping trip and spend the rest of the weekend making weapons of war in your basement.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 01/04/2022 07:32

Good article about media / public fatigue setting in

inews.co.uk/opinion/ukraine-news-fatigue-putin-hoped-1547723

notimagain · 01/04/2022 07:44

The US secret service and lots of other agencies will have been looking at the drone threat and countermeasures to it for years so despite any shocking headlines I don’t think for for one minute they have only now suddenly become concerned.p about the things.

Drones will be tough to counter on a battlefield - but even so some have been shot down..they’ll be especially tough to counter if you have third rate countermeasure. In other circumstances and more controlled environments they won’t be anything like as difficult to counter.

So a threat yes, but not one that’s insurmountable or one that has only suddenly come to light as a result of this war.

RedToothBrush · 01/04/2022 07:50

Sounds horrible? Yes. But are we any different? Realistically how many people in the U.K. actively protested about going to war in Iraq and the "rational" of weapons of mass destruction?

Well I didn't chain myself to railings but I certainly protested. Only proper protest I've ever done - I didn't go to one for Brexit believe it or not. It was and is important to me. I kept newspaper articles about the main protest in London. Which I travelled to and went to on my own. I seem to remember a couple of million people made the effort. Which isn't bad in terms of numbers.

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