Do you think this child has overheard her mother talking about me?

[doineedtotoughenup]

I’ve nc’d and changed a few details so as not to be recognised. In a week or so I’m sure I will have forgotten this but if anyone feels like giving me their opinion I’d be grateful.

Do you think this child is repeating what she has heard her mother talk about when mum doesn’t realise the child is listening/absorbing a conversation? And if you do, whether you would go to the trouble of letting the mother know that she’s been rumbled?

I’ve known this woman, let’s call her Diane, since the children were born 11 or so years ago. I’ve always only seen her about 4 maybe 5 times a year, so an acquaintance rather than a friend, but we were nice to each other and seemed to have a few things in common. (Or so I thought.) Since Covid I haven’t seen her socially but bump into her on a weeknight sometimes since the time of our DC’s activity became later. (Childcare needed before now.)

I suggested an outing once or twice in the last year or two but nothing has come of it. I wasn’t bothered about her not getting in touch to arrange things because I have enough people in my life and take the view that if someone isn’t interested in us I’m not going to push it.

Then her child started ignoring my child in the changing room at the activity. They only see each other there. They’re not at the same school, and we don’t live in the same town.

When the ignoring was happening I found it odd but just advised DD to focus on the activity, chat to one of the other DC there, etc

It kind of blew over & Diane’s daughter must have started speaking to my DD again. I k ow that children do this and to try to not get involved.

The last few weeks Diane’s DC has been flexing her pre-teen muscles at the activity - she’s palled up with another (new-ish) child and they are testing the boundaries. Again, not really anything to do with me; I’m mentioning it because I realise they are at an age when they are testing the reactions of people around them - their peers, parents, school staff, volunteers at activities and so on.

Anyway I saw Diane last night just to say hello to. She always gives the impression of being pleased to see me - grinning from ear to ear, making a bee-line for me, etc, but I’m beginning to wonder whether I’ve misjudged her ..

When DD got in the car she was very still & quiet (not her usual self after bouncing around for an hour). She said that Diane’s daughter was saying really unpleasant things to her in the changing room. Things about me. I’m not keen on saying the specifics of what they were but DD herself said “I mean it was obvious that she had been listening to her mum talk”.
It was stuff along the lines of “you’ve got a horrible mummy who you hardly ever see because she’s always at work WHY is she like that?” DD was upset on the journey home. She was angry and taken aback and just hadn’t known what to say to Diane’s DC. During our chat my DD said that a couple of weeks ago Diane’s daughter had been complaining to her about my hair colour “why does your mother dye her hair? Is it to make her look younger?” Etc. My hair colour is unexceptional ..
There were other specific, personal things

I know it all sounds terribly petty but I’ve been really kind to Diane in the past - I’ve done nothing to hurt her or upset her. I just don’t understand why people have to be so pernicious. I think it’s clear Diane’s daughter has heard her bitching about me. I hope I’m wrong but the more I think about it the more naive I think I’ve been.

My daughter is adamant that she’s not going back to the activity but it seems such a shame when she loves the teacher and she’s been going in one form or another (accompanied by parent) since she was two years old.

I’d love to come up with something breezy in a message along the lines of “so good of you to be thinking about she told me that was worried about her not spending enough time with her mummy. Aw .. it’s so sweet of her to be concerned but tell her not to worry”.

I’m so sick of people doing stuff like this and I never ever challenge them. I just withdraw. This time I feel like making her squirm. I’ve got nothing to lose really.

If you send that you are being incredibly passive aggressive. Either directly speak to this other Mum or just accept they she has been talking about you to her daughter and then respond how you want to. Don't get embroiled in exactly the same kind of behaviour by over discussing it with your own child. I had a 'friend' who talked about other parents with her daughter a few years back. Turns out she would also discuss me with her too. The issue with this meant that I could never speak to my 'friend' about anything without her relaying it to her daughter. I hated it and ended up walking away.

Rise above. Let this be a crucial life lesson for your dd, I'm all for standing up for yourself but with thus I think you should ignore and not show its hurt you. Explain to dd that people sometimes say hurtful things but that's a reflection of them not you and its best not to give them the reaction they want. All will happen is it will become more awkward when you see them. Encourage dd to make other friends at the activities and just be civil to dianbe yourself but nothing more.

I think that's a huge assumption on very slim grounds, to be honest, OP. I wouldn't send that message in the circumstances. It's perfectly possible her child was wailing about her mother not buying her Random Expensive Consumer Item X, and her mother said perfectly innocently, 'Look, we can't afford it. I work PT so I can see more of you -- X's mother works long hours and doesn't see so much of X, and I'm sure you wouldn't like that.'

I mean, you can't rule out that Diane has been bitching about you, obviously, but I think sending that message would be a bit mad and escalate something that isn't really anything.

It’s a tough one.

I just wouldn’t engage with the mother as I would agree it’s highly likely she’s heard it from her mother.

My mum worked a lot when I was younger and some of the girls mums at dancing would make comments as they had nothing better to do.

I would try to encourage your DC to go back to the activity and to stay away from mini Diane. Maybe explain that sometimes people are not always nice and sometimes there is no reason behind it. These are the kind of people to stay away from.

If it continues on, mention to the activity leader that these girls are being unflavourable and could they keep an eye out for it. They’re more likely doing it to more than your DC.

Either speak to her about it properly or don't say anything at all. I would phone her and ask personally because if my DDs upset I cant let things slide. But that message is very passive aggressive and wouldn't help at all

I would bring it up, but i couldnt not.

However i would go from the view point of

' Hi Diane,

Hope your keeping well

My DD has come out of activity rather upset tonight regarding the things your DD has said about myself to her. I am trying to teach my DD about the importance of being kidn to everyone and why its important to not hurt peoples feelings, if you could do the same with your DD that would be appreciated.

Whatever peoples opinions are of myself, or my parenting is neither here nor there, but its a shame my DD doesnt feel comfrtable or happy attending activity anymore because of these comments.

Thank you'

The other child is bullying your daughter. You can address it by speaking to the teacher and asking her to deal with it. I'm sure they are used to doing that. Alternatively, you can address it directly with the mother. However, if you are doing that, I would recommend being direct e.g. Your dd upset my dd in the changing room. This is why she said. You can then ask her to address the issue with her dd.

I would recommend going to the teacher first though as it can be difficult speaking to a parent who doesn't want to deal with it. If that doesn't work, you can then go to the parent.

Honestly you just have to rise above it.

It’s quite possible the DD is either being deliberately nasty to your daughter and making it up (a grown up 11 year old could do this), or she’s twisting a conversation as PP suggests above, or yes Diane has been bitching about you.

For heavens sake don’t sent childish texts. You could talk to the mum, but approach it neutrally as a behaviour issue from her daughter because you don’t know what’s driving it - or you can just ignore it, and explain to DD that one or the other of them is being unpleasant, and some people do that because they are jealous or unhappy, it doesn’t reflect on you or her, and the best thing is to give them a wide birth.

Hopefully you can encourage your DD to go back, but If not, is there an alternative,

I’d just go straight to the activity organisers and complain Diane’s daughter is bullying yours.

Leave Diane out of it - she’s either a two faced cow, in which case no point raising it with her, or her daughter is making this up on her own, in which case no point going in all guns blazing.

I would be cooling things significantly with Diane going forwards though.

I second Ochon.

The issue is your dd being unhappy enough to want to stop the activity.

You need to nip that in the bud. And show your dd how to deal with this stuff.

As PP said, be factual and direct.

As for your relationship with this parent - well, she's emotionally unregulated, useless at friendship, a bitter fool, and flakey as a parent. You really don't want her around - and now you have a reason to keep her at arm's length.

@wonderwoman26

I would bring it up, but i couldnt not.

However i would go from the view point of

' Hi Diane,

Hope your keeping well

My DD has come out of activity rather upset tonight regarding the things your DD has said about myself to her. I am trying to teach my DD about the importance of being kidn to everyone and why its important to not hurt peoples feelings, if you could do the same with your DD that would be appreciated.

Whatever peoples opinions are of myself, or my parenting is neither here nor there, but its a shame my DD doesnt feel comfrtable or happy attending activity anymore because of these comments.

Thank you'

For heavens sake don’t send this.

Email or text is the worse way to deal with anything like this. Talk to her, and keep it neutral.

@OchonAgusOchonOh

The other child is bullying your daughter. You can address it by speaking to the teacher and asking her to deal with it. I'm sure they are used to doing that. Alternatively, you can address it directly with the mother. However, if you are doing that, I would recommend being direct e.g. Your dd upset my dd in the changing room. This is why she said. You can then ask her to address the issue with her dd.

I would recommend going to the teacher first though as it can be difficult speaking to a parent who doesn't want to deal with it. If that doesn't work, you can then go to the parent.

I think that's fair. It doesn't ultimately matter whether the child is repeating something her mother said -- the impact on your daughter, and the potential loss of an activity she's been doing since she was tiny and clearly loves, are what is important here.

I think speaking to the teacher and ensure the girls are supervised and why nastiness is stopped immediately.

How old are the girls?

Absolutely don't do nothing - this is bullying.

Also don't deal with it through the mother; it's happening at the activity, not when the girls are meeting up separately.

Deal with it through the activity leader, tell them there's clear bullying that's making your daughter no longer want to attend, and ask them to ensure that this is dealt with and doesn't continue (speak to child involved, supervision of changing room, etc).

Whatever you do, don't send any of those suggested texts - you'd be setting yourself up for a massive fallout when you don't know for certain where the kid is getting this from.

I am not sure what value there is in complaining to Diane. For a start, you have no idea what she may or may not have said and how her DD then interpreted this.

I WOULD be telling the organizers that your dd is being bullied and that inappropriate and unkind things are being said to her about you.

I'd also tell your DD that lots of people have lots of opinions on lots of things but the key is whether her and you are happy with yourselves, your relationship, your lives. If you work long hours, discuss with her what the benefits are and how as a family this has worked. On appearance, point out that your appearance is something you choose based on what pleases you and that you don't really care what others think. It's a useful lesson for her to see that other people having opinions about a person doesn't mean that person has to take those opinions on board.

Take a step back from all the gossip OP. Do not get involved. Think of your child and act in her best interests.
Remove her from the activity.
Go on a different day
Find the same activity elsewhere
Don't respond.

@User56436674

Either speak to her about it properly or don't say anything at all. I would phone her and ask personally because if my DDs upset I cant let things slide. But that message is very passive aggressive and wouldn't help at all

This!

The problem is mini-Diane who is deliberately upsetting your Dd. I wouldn’t assume Diane has been bitching, her comments may have been wildly reframed by mini-Diane. If you must send a message I’d be more inclined to send something very blunt like “Hi, this is awkward and I never normally get involved in kids squabbles, but DD is really stressed about going back to activity because of the things mini-Diane has been saying to her about me in the changing room. Criticising my hair, looks, career choices etc. Obviously I’m keen that DD go back as she’s been there since she was two! But she’s very upset. If could you perhaps have a word with mini-Diane about trying not to upset others, that would help a lot. Thanks xx”

A classic way for bullies to hurt other children is by sneering at the victim's home, parents, looks, anything.

I see no reason to suppose Diane is involved at all or that her daughter got those comments from her. For goodness sake don't play the injured target of a fourth-hand bully smear, that is such a poor example to your daughter.

Far better to say to her " That poor jealous girl must have an inferiority complex about her own mother. Modern women make their own choices and many of us want to work, earn our own money, contribute our skills outside the home. You already know that and take it for granted because that's how I've brought you up . You have the advantage of a feminist viewpoint on life. Perhaps X will understand that better when she grows up a bit more and meets more independent women.

Now, you are a modern young woman who makes her own choices and decides her own life, so don't let X or anybody else stop you going to ."

OP take your child back to the activity and don't bother coming up with a cool reply. Ignore them, and speak out directly to the activity teacher, as I am sure she'll want to know if there's something upsetting your daughter.

She's definitely listening to her mother . Out of the mouths of babes as they say. My parents learnt that when I was about 4. They had a friend they used to call Bob Smith Rotten Teeth(something along those lines) they were also friends with Bob's brother who was at our house and I repeated this in front of his brother. ...long awkward silence then when brother left, I was punished in the method of the times (1960s) with a good hiding.....

This used to happen to my DB a lot as out of his school Mum was the only female parent who worked full time. He used to reply by making comments that destroyed the bully - his fav was ‘yes, mum working full time is why I dress the way I do and YOU dress the way YOU do’. Occassionally he’d lower himself to sniggering at the bully behind their back in an obvious way that soon made the others copy him. But DB was, and still is, really confident. So if your DD isn’t then it might be better to work on that / withdraw her from the class to protect her from further comments.

Obviously comments from the Mother, there’s no way a child would think to say things like this at all.

I’d either send Diane a text mentioning it or I’d mention it in person next time you see her. I’m certain she’ll be completely mortified that her DD is parroting her.

Definitely don't send weird text messages that she can use to make you look odd.

If your daughter enjoys the activity, I would speak to the teacher/coach and see if they are amenable to supervising more closely to ensure no bullying, and openly separating troublemakers. Don't deal directly with your ex-friend or her daughter, and be clear to your daughter that working and indeed colouring your hair are both completely normal activities for a working age adult, and anyone who finds either of these things peculiar is clearly insecure about their own choices.

Ooh, Dobbie on the rebound!

Ha wrong thread, apologies!