Do you think this child has overheard her mother talking about me?

[doineedtotoughenup]

I’ve nc’d and changed a few details so as not to be recognised. In a week or so I’m sure I will have forgotten this but if anyone feels like giving me their opinion I’d be grateful.

Do you think this child is repeating what she has heard her mother talk about when mum doesn’t realise the child is listening/absorbing a conversation? And if you do, whether you would go to the trouble of letting the mother know that she’s been rumbled?

I’ve known this woman, let’s call her Diane, since the children were born 11 or so years ago. I’ve always only seen her about 4 maybe 5 times a year, so an acquaintance rather than a friend, but we were nice to each other and seemed to have a few things in common. (Or so I thought.) Since Covid I haven’t seen her socially but bump into her on a weeknight sometimes since the time of our DC’s activity became later. (Childcare needed before now.)

I suggested an outing once or twice in the last year or two but nothing has come of it. I wasn’t bothered about her not getting in touch to arrange things because I have enough people in my life and take the view that if someone isn’t interested in us I’m not going to push it.

Then her child started ignoring my child in the changing room at the activity. They only see each other there. They’re not at the same school, and we don’t live in the same town.

When the ignoring was happening I found it odd but just advised DD to focus on the activity, chat to one of the other DC there, etc

It kind of blew over & Diane’s daughter must have started speaking to my DD again. I k ow that children do this and to try to not get involved.

The last few weeks Diane’s DC has been flexing her pre-teen muscles at the activity - she’s palled up with another (new-ish) child and they are testing the boundaries. Again, not really anything to do with me; I’m mentioning it because I realise they are at an age when they are testing the reactions of people around them - their peers, parents, school staff, volunteers at activities and so on.

Anyway I saw Diane last night just to say hello to. She always gives the impression of being pleased to see me - grinning from ear to ear, making a bee-line for me, etc, but I’m beginning to wonder whether I’ve misjudged her ..

When DD got in the car she was very still & quiet (not her usual self after bouncing around for an hour). She said that Diane’s daughter was saying really unpleasant things to her in the changing room. Things about me. I’m not keen on saying the specifics of what they were but DD herself said “I mean it was obvious that she had been listening to her mum talk”.
It was stuff along the lines of “you’ve got a horrible mummy who you hardly ever see because she’s always at work WHY is she like that?” DD was upset on the journey home. She was angry and taken aback and just hadn’t known what to say to Diane’s DC. During our chat my DD said that a couple of weeks ago Diane’s daughter had been complaining to her about my hair colour “why does your mother dye her hair? Is it to make her look younger?” Etc. My hair colour is unexceptional ..
There were other specific, personal things

I know it all sounds terribly petty but I’ve been really kind to Diane in the past - I’ve done nothing to hurt her or upset her. I just don’t understand why people have to be so pernicious. I think it’s clear Diane’s daughter has heard her bitching about me. I hope I’m wrong but the more I think about it the more naive I think I’ve been.

My daughter is adamant that she’s not going back to the activity but it seems such a shame when she loves the teacher and she’s been going in one form or another (accompanied by parent) since she was two years old.

I’d love to come up with something breezy in a message along the lines of “so good of you to be thinking about she told me that was worried about her not spending enough time with her mummy. Aw .. it’s so sweet of her to be concerned but tell her not to worry”.

I’m so sick of people doing stuff like this and I never ever challenge them. I just withdraw. This time I feel like making her squirm. I’ve got nothing to lose really.

The problem you have is its chinese whispers - her mum said, she overhead, your daughter explained to you. I agree it sounds like her mother has said something...but how much is still in the current message is debatable. I would have a chat with the teacher rather than the mum and ask if there are issues as your daughter is talking about quitting because of it. You might find this child's mother does it to lots of people so its not just you!

I think I would be tempted to message Diane to say your DD was upset by comments her DD made about you following the activity this week, you’ve advised your DD to keep her distance to prevent her from being upset and would be grateful if she could ask her DD to keep her distance also. I don’t think this is for the activity teacher to referee or sort out, you’re both adults and can sort it between you.

There’s a kid in my DD’s class who makes absolutely horrendous comments to other children, all the parents and children know she does it and talk to each other about it, but I don’t know if anyone has ever said anything to her parents about it. Her parents would be mortified if they knew what she’d been saying. Fortunately she’s not turned her sights on my DD (who knows the girl can be a menace and a bully and avoids her) but it does mean I haven’t felt it was my place to say anything. I would definitely want to know if my DD had been spiteful like this girl had - even if that meant I was the one who ended up being embarrassed because she was repeating things I’d said!

I would be much MUCH more concerned at the bullying behavior the child is displaying to yours. And the fact it's put your DD off and activity she likes. I would be a) logging exactly what the DC has done and said and b) speaking to the activity organisers about this. You can remove the layer of where the DC got it from (to be fair, it could be what she'd heard her mum day about a different parent). It's not relevant where she got it from, but her picking in your DC is.

Grow some balls OP and protect your DD.

I agree you should go down the route of telling the activity organiser/coach - this is bullying behaviour from mini-diane, if it is happening at the activity to the point of your DD not wanting to go anymore then they need to deal with it.

There's no evidence that the mother has said anything at all, or she may have said something innocuous that her DD has picked up on and twisted into a bitchy comment.

I tell my kids that sometimes in life people are just jerks and you just have to avoid or ignore them. Would your DD shrug and say something like "I dunno,why do you care?" to any further "your mum dyes her hair" comments? Maybe reassure her that your feelings aren't hurt and don't over think it.

Lots to think about here.

The posters saying it’s all silly beyond belief: we haven’t all had the same kind of lives and developed a skill set that enables us to deal with this sort of thing. Or indeed lots of other situations. So an anonymous forum enables some of us to ask others what they would do in this situation. I find it helpful. I wouldn’t be able to address it head on in the way some people say they would, but I find the differing perspectives shown here invaluable.

I’m aware that if you’ve just arrived back from your stint with Medicines sans Frontier at the Mariupol frontline then it sounds beyond frivolous, But it’s a problem I’m trying to navigate and I appreciate the help.

The poster who suggested I should check whether Diane had a point - I spend a lot of time with DD, she lives a pretty good life. I would hazard that D spends less time with her daughter and if we’re going to get on to the dangerous territory of who is doing a better job, it’s not my DD making someone else’s life a misery. She’s also not the one acting like a pain in the arse at the activity. Mini-D and her sidekick staging sit-downs, etc. DD isn’t “neglected”. She enjoys a certain amount of privilege in her life. I’m wary of saying that because I know there are families on here who are really struggling atm.

The posts advising me to model behaviour along the lines of “I really don’t care if D and mini-D have nothing better to talk about than me” are probably the best fit for this situation. Then showing that I don’t care by never mentioning it again.

.. but I’m also thinking I might give the teacher or organiser a quick ring.

The teacher is really talented, but I would imagine she might think “this amount of hassle is just not what I’m here for”.

I don't think those comments have necessarily come from the mother - I'd say a pre teen is capable of thinking those up for herself (I had similar pre teen issue with my DD and kids were saying stuff about my husband - his car was rubbish we were poor etc. my DD also wanted to give up her activity) In my case I spoke to the head of the school and she had words with the girls involved and the behaviour stopped.
It is bullying and needs to be treated as such, don;t pussy foot around, don;t send passive aggressive text to the Mum. Either contact the organisers of the activity, or speak to the mother and say 'Miss pre teen has been saying nasty things about me to my DD, it has upset my DD such that she no longer wants to go to the activity. Could you have a word with your DD and tell her to stop being unkind, and if she doesn't want to be friends with DD then simply leave her alone, rather than make unkind remarks'
Then it is in the mothers hands. She can deal with it and get her DD to apologise, or she can do nothing in which case report to the organisers - if anyone should leave the activity it should be the bully not your DD.
My DD sadly gave up her activity (which was a wind band she had worked hard to get into) and refused to go back, fortunately we found another band for her. But I was sad at the time that she lost out because of bullies, so I would encourage your DD to stay for a while to see if things improve. It may only take a few strong words from the mother to stop the bullying.

Kids can twist things, intentionally or not.

One of my kids once told a friend that we (parents) didn't like the friend's mum.

It was not what we had said.

Story was that my younger DS was complaining about not having as many sleepovers as DS1.

I had said that because DS1's best friend is the child of very good, old friends of ours, sleepovers were easier to arrange.

Not the same as saying we didn't like the other mum and absolutely fine once we spoke about it but could have gone very wrong if not addressed.

Yes Amy that’s it. If it wasn’t the job or the hair it would have been something else. I’m sorry your DD wanted to leave her band. You want them to be resilient but you don’t know whether the bullying is truly unmanageable for them.

The teacher is really talented, but I would imagine she might think “this amount of hassle is just not what I’m here for”

I imagine if the child is being difficult in the group then it's not the first time she will need to speak to Diane about her DC's behavior. Indeed she may be grateful to you for bringing up further issues. It builds a general picture of behavior.

She is welcome to say that it's not her place to get involved, in which case take it to Diane directly. If you do this, I would be very specific with what the DD has said and hope it makes Diane squirm if it came from her.

This thread has helped me see that the content of what the girl is saying hardly matters. It doesn’t matter whether she has come up with it herself or whether it has come from D.

It’s the fact that she is enjoying playing with my DD’s reactions/upset.
Thank you to the poster who said DD’s anger was no bad thing & perhaps she might be able to speak out in future.

I wouldn't assume that she has been bitchy. If she us finding fault, it might say more about what mini Diane is feeling about her own mum. The pre-teens suddenly prefer other mums and become embarrassed about their own. So mini Diane might have been unpleasant to her own mum, "why don't you have you hair dyed like x's mum? Cue..." because I'm not bothered about looking younger" not bitchy but defensive. MiniDiane might be just jealous.

^This thread has helped me see that the content of what the girl is saying hardly matters. It doesn’t matter whether she has come up with it herself or whether it has come from D.

It’s the fact that she is enjoying playing with my DD’s reactions/upset.^

I'm glad that you have come to this realization, I was just reading your posts & was about to say something similar.
I would speak to the teacher, & also talk about bullying as a "thing" with DD, if she is prepared she will deal better with it.
If the teacher speaks to Diane, (or her daughter,) be ready with a response to Diane yourself.

As an anecdote, I was speaking to a woman I knew well as a child, who told me that one day a mother at school said, "I'm sorry I can't keep this to myself anymore" & went on to tell her how her son was bullying hers,
She said, "I had no idea". So it could be any number of things, it could involve the mother, or it could be that this child is "simply" a bully.

@doineedtotoughenup

Yes Amy that’s it. If it wasn’t the job or the hair it would have been something else. I’m sorry your DD wanted to leave her band. You want them to be resilient but you don’t know whether the bullying is truly unmanageable for them.

Resilience is not about tolerating bullying. Resilience is about being able to identify and talk about your emotions, and having the wisdom to know what you need in order to move from a negative emotion to a positive. And understanding that it may take time.

Your daughter could say to the other child, Please stop making disparaging remarks about my mother, it's very rude"

sweetbellyhigh I could try asking
DD to say that. If I rang the teacher tomorrow I will come back & update.
Thanks again

I would definitely message her just to mention her child is bullying yours and that she wants to give up the activity because of it. I would mention that the unkind things she is saying is mainly about you and that it's upsetting your child. Depending on how she replies and if anything changes I would also put in a complaint to the location of this activity so perhaps they could monitor more closely or have a chat with them all about bullying. Maybe they could find somewhere alternative for your child to get changed for a short time or she could just go straight home to get changed there.