“Getting ANY adult dog breed is strongly NOT recommended”

[tallulahtoo78]

From a dog expert interview on LBC discussing the utterly awful, tragic death of the 17 month old little girl.

@Nobodycarestakeitelsewhere

All in all, XL American Bullies do look scary, but they really are an amazingly loving, gentle and friendly breed

Hmm i wonder who said that. Someone with a vested interest in selling or otherwise promoting xl bullies? You know they sell for £5k+ each? All the while these lovely friendly gentle dogs are killing and maiming children. Once they've sold you a puppy they couldn't give a shit if it's a safe family pet.

I could tell you a tiger is a gentle family friendly pet if i had some cubs to sell. Doesn't make it true, and it doesn't make a tiger a suitable pet any more than an xl bully is. People will say whatever will net them £10s of thousands of pounds of puppy sales. Sometimes, the fault is what a human has created at the biting end of the lead but that's a scant consolation when the worst happens. However from your soundbites cut and pasted from Google, and that you believe the first thing you read on the internet, its quite clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Great comparison of a wild animal to domesticated dog.

Cant see anything online that suggests they are inherently dangerous dogs.

Maybe you share some information

@MiniDaffodils

With the notable exception of assistance and working dogs, no one should be getting a dog at all. They are a luxury the planet cannot afford. We are in a climate crisis and dogs have a very high carbon paw print.

Do you have children? If so you have no right to judge dog owners for their carbon footprint.

@MiniDaffodils

With the notable exception of assistance and working dogs, no one should be getting a dog at all. They are a luxury the planet cannot afford. We are in a climate crisis and dogs have a very high carbon paw print.

I can't have children. I have a dog. I bet her environmental impact is less than any child.

Cant see anything online that suggests they are inherently dangerous dogs

The fact that the American Bully (of which there are multiple sizes) was created from the pit bull terrier (a registered breed in America) and the American Staffordshire terrier (which looks exactly like a pit just smaller, it’s only really the smaller size that differentiates it)
So it’s basically genetically a Pit Bull...

The law here in the U.K. being backward and classifying ‘pit bull’ based on a set of measurements rather than as an actual breed as in America.

As I said, once upon a time i was all ‘deed not breed’ but fact is, whenever there’s a fatality, nearly all of the time, it’s a pit bull/American Bully/American Bulldog/other bully breed or mix.

As I said, once upon a time i was all ‘deed not breed’ but fact is, whenever there’s a fatality, nearly all of the time, it’s a pit bull/American Bully/American Bulldog/other bully breed or mix.

But it's never dogs from nice homes

Basically a Pit.

But it's never dogs from nice homes
I think that is a massive contributing factor.
But I do also think breed plays a role tbh.

Basically a dangerous killer. How many more innocent children will lose their lives before stricter laws re dog ownership are enforced.

@Afan

Do you have children? If so you have no right to judge dog owners for their carbon footprint

Insane

Why is it insane? People having multiple kids causes more environmental damage than someone with no children and a dog.

No such thing as a dangerous breed. Breed specific legislation is cruel and ineffective. Incidents such as this would be reduced significantly if, instead of chasing banned breeds, the law spent that time and effort on the actual problems surrounding the control of dogs in this country. I’ve always had rescue dogs. I have a staffie cross and a 1yo. We had the dog for many years before we had children. Would we get another rescue now? Sadly not until DD is much older.

And actually thinking about it, although the ‘not nice homes’ has to be a contributing factor, what about the huge swathes of kind, responsible people with dogs of all variety of breeds, who despite being very well cared for and loved grow up hating other dogs or people or being extremely territorial/guardy etc?

There has to be more to it than simple neglect.

There might not be any ‘bad’ breeds per se but they all have different traits.
A dog breed with traits for say, territorial/guarding behaviour and for being strong willed/domineering, it’s easy to see how in the wrong hands that could become a very dangerous animal.

I’m not sure BSL is the answer because the money isn’t there to enforce it and just encourages the wrong sort to get their hands on them, but something has to be done.

@HotnSunnyRainbowRoses

Basically a Pit.

I dont believe theres anything inherently dangerous about pitbulls or any other banned dog.

It's just easier to blame the dog than do something about the owners

I dont believe theres anything inherently dangerous about pitbulls or any other banned dog
Why?

It’s widely accepted that no amount of training will quash the instinct to kill small furries in the average Patterdale, it’s widely accepted that no amount of training will stop the average border collie demonstrating some degree of herding behaviour like trying to herd cars or staring down other dogs, it’s widely accepted that no amount of training will stop the average golden retriever from picking up interesting items and so on.

We know very well that certain breeds have certain traits that are often instinctive.

So why is the idea that a pit bull could be inherently dangerous so unbelievable?
They were bred for dog fighting so at minimum we should expect dog aggression at maturity to be highly likely?
Fighting has been illegal for a long time now but the breed type is still popular with gangs (and for illegal fighting), there’ll be plenty being rewarded for being aggressive to people and bred from, that’s a good trait for a scary macho gang dog.
The bully that killed Jack Lis was a stud dog remember.
I really don’t think it’s that unbelievable at all that a lot of these dogs have very questionable genetic temperaments.
No doubt made much worse by people who don’t really understand much of dog body language, training and caring for them properly

I'll agree that dog on dog aggression is an unfortunate part of their breeding . Which as a responsible owner you should be aware of and take steps to minimize that risk as much as possible. That doesnt automatically make it a dangerous dog to be around people .

there’ll be plenty being rewarded for being aggressive to people

And that's the irresponsible owner element I've been saying all this time.

The bully that killed Jack Lis was a stud dog remember

Bit what was the family like? Decent? Hard working? Or chavs? Irresponsible breeding to make some quick cash?

Its alway the type of dog that's reported on not the type of home it comes from

I think it's a pretty stupid thing to say, tbh, OP.

@Catswhiskers8

No such thing as a dangerous breed. Breed specific legislation is cruel and ineffective. Incidents such as this would be reduced significantly if, instead of chasing banned breeds, the law spent that time and effort on the actual problems surrounding the control of dogs in this country. I’ve always had rescue dogs. I have a staffie cross and a 1yo. We had the dog for many years before we had children. Would we get another rescue now? Sadly not until DD is much older.

Yeah, this. There are no organizations that study this which recommend breed bans, or even "type" bans. They are ineffective and if they were based on evidence around attacks would include many many dog breeds.

It's also worth noting that what people consider "problem" breeds changes over time with fashion. It's not objective.

Dealing with problem owners and dog fights and crap breeders would go a lot further.

@Twentypast yes UK. No, they aren't banned.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs

Banned dogs
In the UK, it’s against the law to own certain types of dog. These are the:
• Pit Bull Terrier
• Japanese Tosa
• Dogo Argentino
• Fila Brasileiro

@Doglikeahorse agree with the nanny thing. Apparently Akitas used to work in the Buddhist temples guarding children. Whilst they are great guard dogs, anything small and quick moving is seen as prey. And yet, it's written on all the breed pages! I don't trust mine with anyone less than an adult.

Dogs have breed traits and some of them cannot be trained out and are merely managed. My dog is a hunter. He will run after prey and will not be off lead ever because of this. The problem I find is that breeds that aren't perceived like mine are not well trained and cause mischief. Usually the people that don't understand what's required in dog ownership stay away from such breeds and have sappy dogs. That's not ideal but less ideal is the people that like dogs like mine but don't understand that they need to train and manage. That's where you get situation like this poor girl.

There are OK dogs and bad owners.

@HotnSunnyRainbowRoses

I dont believe theres anything inherently dangerous about pitbulls or any other banned dog Why?

It’s widely accepted that no amount of training will quash the instinct to kill small furries in the average Patterdale, it’s widely accepted that no amount of training will stop the average border collie demonstrating some degree of herding behaviour like trying to herd cars or staring down other dogs, it’s widely accepted that no amount of training will stop the average golden retriever from picking up interesting items and so on.

We know very well that certain breeds have certain traits that are often instinctive.

So why is the idea that a pit bull could be inherently dangerous so unbelievable?
They were bred for dog fighting so at minimum we should expect dog aggression at maturity to be highly likely?
Fighting has been illegal for a long time now but the breed type is still popular with gangs (and for illegal fighting), there’ll be plenty being rewarded for being aggressive to people and bred from, that’s a good trait for a scary macho gang dog.
The bully that killed Jack Lis was a stud dog remember.
I really don’t think it’s that unbelievable at all that a lot of these dogs have very questionable genetic temperaments.
No doubt made much worse by people who don’t really understand much of dog body language, training and caring for them properly

PIt bulls are, like boxers, often listed as being more likely to be aggressive to other dogs, and sometimes cats, in their breed description.

Though that is certainly not inevitable, most can walk out in a park or whatever without a problem. But it's something to keep in mind by an owner. Lots of other dogs are like this as well, those traits aren't all that unusual.

But aggression to humans was historically seen as a fault. More so than in some other dogs that were used as guard animals against humans.

@Nobodycarestakeitelsewhere

I'm not even sure if a xl bully is a recognized breed . I've never heard heard of until i saw this post.

So you're having a go at me for saying xl bullies shouldn't be bred, and you don't even know what they are? Go and have a look at some online. Have a look at the kind of things they're trained to do. Look at the language around them, the images used to sell them and the kind of names the breeders give them ( i will give you a hint - they don't tend to be called sweetpea and fido). Not to mention the bloody ear cropping. It's toxic masculinity in dog form. Have a look, then tell me they should be wandering around a local park with children playing like any other labrador.

The dog that killed a child in Wales was an xl bully (apparently it's name was Beast and it was used as a breeding stud - so we come back to the point about indiscriminate breeding with no regard at all to temperament. It had to be shot dead by firearms officers. It has fathered at least 10 puppies. So it's genetics continue). These dogs are bloody dangerous.

Yes!

Last year I was walking with my 4 year old niece over the grass on the common leading to the main children's area of the park. She decided to run ahead.

Saw a staff bull/cross running at fast speed back and forth along the grass. I could sense it's energy.
His owner was barely in sight. No way he could have intervened in time if it had run towards my niece.

I ran and picked my niece up and put her on my shoulder and walked hastily away off the grass.

These breeds shouldn't be bred and should be muzzled in public areas. No ones children are safe around them. Round my way these bull breeds are a fashion accessory. They're part of a look that includes tattoos and the right trainers. They're a masculine statement. In some cases, a replacement for the 'safety' of a knife.
It's the norm to see one straining away at the collar while a couple of young teens are being half pulled along whilst they're also chatting on the phone.

How many dead or maimed children does it have to take before they're banned?

I'll agree that dog on dog aggression is an unfortunate part of their breeding . Which as a responsible owner you should be aware of and take steps to minimize that risk as much as possible. That doesnt automatically make it a dangerous dog to be around people
I agree.

there’ll be plenty being rewarded for being aggressive to people
And that's the irresponsible owner element I've been saying all this time
Not entirely.
In order to display aggressive behaviour in the first place the dog has to be perceiving a threat.
The owner encouraging the aggressive behaviour is enhancing and bringing out the poor temperament traits that were already there.
Take my older dog, she’s never exhibited any negative behaviour towards people ever, it’s just not genetically in her nature.
She’s an exceptionally soft, tolerant and pretty confident, steady dog.
My younger dog on the other hand, he’s a shy soul and because I’ve really put the effort in with him he ignores people and (usually) other dogs but he has barked and lunged before, if I’d ignored that behaviour, or worse encouraged it he’d be a fucking nightmare. But not terribly dangerous as he’s a chihuahua. But being a mildly anxious dog liable to perceive threat where there isn’t any the tendency is there.
So yes, technically the owners are to blame, but the tendency was always there.

The bully that killed Jack Lis was a stud dog remember
Bit what was the family like? Decent? Hard working? Or chavs? Irresponsible breeding to make some quick cash?
Most likely the last two but genetics are still playing a role.
That’s even more the case with breeding to make cash.
If the majority of bully breeders are in it ‘for the cash’, there’s a very good chance the temperaments are poor.
No doubt they’ll pass it off as ‘protectiveness’ to unsuspecting buyers.

[quote EricScrantona]@Twentypast yes UK. No, they aren't banned.

www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs

Banned dogs
In the UK, it’s against the law to own certain types of dog. These are the:
• Pit Bull Terrier
• Japanese Tosa
• Dogo Argentino
• Fila Brasileiro

@Doglikeahorse agree with the nanny thing. Apparently Akitas used to work in the Buddhist temples guarding children. Whilst they are great guard dogs, anything small and quick moving is seen as prey. And yet, it's written on all the breed pages! I don't trust mine with anyone less than an adult.

Dogs have breed traits and some of them cannot be trained out and are merely managed. My dog is a hunter. He will run after prey and will not be off lead ever because of this. The problem I find is that breeds that aren't perceived like mine are not well trained and cause mischief. Usually the people that don't understand what's required in dog ownership stay away from such breeds and have sappy dogs. That's not ideal but less ideal is the people that like dogs like mine but don't understand that they need to train and manage. That's where you get situation like this poor girl.

There are OK dogs and bad owners. [/quote]
My understanding of akitas is that they are great with the family but house guests and any one else not so great. Almost the perfect guard dog.

Again a great looking dog

The parents should be charged with manslaughter.

@ GrandRapids . I said you can not that I would. She has had kids come up to her In the park and grab her she doesn’t care . I have also desensitized her to being touched . BUT. She has Sleep startle, or sleep aggression as it is also known which can occur when your dog is woken abruptly from their sleep. Nothing much can be done about it so I won’t leave her alone with random kids . My kids know not to touch when sleeping or to call her to wake her up a bit first. She only does it sometimes when in deep sleep but I know her enough and know that even the nicest dog can have bad days esp if sick