P&O Ferries - major announcement today. All ships in port

[cakeorwine]

Gosh. I wonder what's going on

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001

Wow, I just booked a ferry yesterday for the Easter holidays. Glad I used DFDS now. The price for P&O was the same but I've always preferred DFDS. I won't consider using P&O if that's how they treat their staff but I'm sure plenty of people will if they end up being cheaper, including hauliers. I hope it doesn't price DFDS out of the market.

But why have modern employment laws, if large companies can just ride over them roughshod in case they might possibly go bust?

That is what I cant figure out.

So many Uk employment rules and regulations. HR. Safeguarding. Mental Health. Pensions. An endless array of things to abide by. And yet a company can do this? Really?
Heavies and handcuffs as well? Really?

Yes, I'm puzzled by this as well! Also, where have p&o got the new workers from to staff the ships?

@jessy100

I know all about zeebrugge, and yes I was alive! fire and rehire has served this government well, and is largely supported by the great British public. Hypocrisy at it's finest!

That's a sweeping statement.

It's not fire and rehire. It's fire without notice and employ a load of foreign agency workers on zero hours contracts. I hope P&O have done their homework because they potentially have a massive and expensive legal case on their hands.

@Libertybear80

The bbc business correspondents were gleeful! Quite distasteful coverage.

I thought that too when I saw them reporting on it, absolutely disgraceful of them.

@raspberryjamchicken

Wow, I just booked a ferry yesterday for the Easter holidays. Glad I used DFDS now. The price for P&O was the same but I've always preferred DFDS. I won't consider using P&O if that's how they treat their staff but I'm sure plenty of people will if they end up being cheaper, including hauliers. I hope it doesn't price DFDS out of the market.

Problem is that other companies will now possibly have to do the same if they want to remain competitive? Or p&o will constantly undercut them due to lower overheads.

@jessy100

Yes, I'm puzzled by this as well! Also, where have p&o got the new workers from to staff the ships?

And how have they trained them? This must have been in the offing for weeks/months. How on earth was it not leaked?

I would also like to know who gave them the legal advice. I am still not convinced this is lawful and if it isn't, it will cost a lot to make people go away. 800 unfair/wrongful dismissal claims will be expensive.

@jessy100

Another brexit bonus! This wouldn't have happened if we were still in the EU. Just saw a Labour bloke from Hull ranting about workers rights. 68% of people from Hull voted for brexit. You reap what you sow.

nothing to do with Brexit, our employment laws have not changed (yet) since we left.

@jessy100

Well if he was part of the 32% I feel fucking angry on his behalf. If he wasn't, then I couldn't care less!

I’m a staunch Remainer, however it doesn’t stop me feeling sympathy for those who have lost their jobs today in such a disgusting manner even if they voted leave. I think it’s become very clear that a large number who voted leave were lied too or didn’t fully understand the implications of their vote. I direct my wrath at Johnson, Gove, Farage, Banks et al !!

The reason they aren’t worried about UK employment rights is because they are excluded from them. The MP in Hull says he’s been working for years to get this changed. No doubt P&O are well aware of this.

There is apparently a specific exclusion for employees on international ship routes.

ferry passengers will tend to be, for the vast majority, slightly older people with emotional links to the continent, and often well established habits

I love the ferry. Definitely a part of the holiday.

And yes, a slightly older person with an emotional link to the continent and well established habits.

Using DFDS this year

[quote Leftbutcameback]@daimbarsatemydogsbone no, they don’t have the EU protection any more. Why do you think they would still have that? We’ve left the EU so each bit of legislation needed to be carried over (by SIs) and this wasn’t, together with some others I’m aware of.[/quote]
Employment law has not changed since we left the EU. This has nothing to do with Brexit, and I say that as a staunch Remainer.

@WTFGG That's very magnanimous of you. Afraid I'm all out of sympathy for the idiots who voted to keep out the nasty foreigners stealing their jobs! Kind of ironic eh? most port towns voted for brexit!

@lightand

But why have modern employment laws, if large companies can just ride over them roughshod in case they might possibly go bust?

That is what I cant figure out.

So many Uk employment rules and regulations. HR. Safeguarding. Mental Health. Pensions. An endless array of things to abide by. And yet a company can do this? Really?
Heavies and handcuffs as well? Really?

UK doesn't have employment protection laws, rules or regulations, British Gas sacked 100s of workers and rehired on worse terms.

Government can bitch all they like but they haven't changed the law on this and the public vote for a "Dynamic" labour market.

I ve been subjected to these sorts of tactics in the past "Here is your new contract, sign or you have resigned"

@Pyewhacket

They're losing £100m year on year which is being covered by the parent company in Dubai. I guess DP World have said enough is enough and are looking to restructure the business to reduce cost, or they'll just wind it up.

Now whether the Government see this a strategic transport link and buys it off the Holding Company remains to be seen.

The only problem with "Nationised" Companies is they go on strike at a drop of a hat ( see TfL ) and lose even more money.

The huge advantage with Nationalised Companies is that any profits will benefit US ALL as profits are not creamed off just for shareholders.

Nationalised Companies are also subject to public /political control/pressure - see eg EDF, the French Nationalised Energy Company which is capping energy rises at around 4%. I think most people here would be pleased with that! The irony is that EDF's profits here go back to France to benefit the French instead of us. If our Energy Companies were nationalised they'd stay here.

Workers in most industries are allowed to go on strike. They only strike ( losing money) when they are pretty desperate. Workers who aren't allowed to go on strike (except certain defined areas) are called 'slaves' I believe. We supposedly abolished slavery a long time ago.

There is apparently a specific exclusion for employees on international ship routes

this could be what applies here: www.gov.uk/seafarer-working-and-living-rights/maritime-labour-convention

@Satsumaeater

And how have they trained them?

There are huge numbers of unemployed/redundant cruise staff because of all the cruise ships that haven't been able to operate much over the past 2 years thus laying off their staff, many of whom are from the Far East, who are fully experienced in their particular roles and would need pretty minimal "training" to operate different kinds of ships.

For the new staff I would be most worried about the safety aspect of training, especially if the agency staff weren’t familiar with the ferry or didn’t have a common first language. That was on issue on the Costa Concordia. All theoretical of course as I haven’t been on a ferry for years!

@jeannie46

The huge advantage with Nationalised Companies is that any profits will benefit US ALL as profits are not creamed off just for shareholders.

Trouble is that nationalised companies tend not to be innovative so don't make as much profit (if any) as a company run by entreprenneurial management. So, no the profits aren't "creamed off" to shareholders, but any profits are usually a lot less anyway.

Just look at BT before it was privatised - you had to wait months for a phone and your only choice was a handful of colours.

Employment law has not changed since we left the EU. This has nothing to do with Brexit, and I say that as a staunch Remainer

Not quite, as whilst the UK did opt out of EU employment law, there was always the possibility of legal action via the ECJ, an option not possible now.

Rich the Govt complaining about P&O 's actions.

Barry Gardiner has just announced in the House of Commons that P&O's parent company has a £146m hole in its pension fund yet spent £147m sponsoring a golf tournament last year 🙄

@Leftbutcameback

For the new staff I would be most worried about the safety aspect of training, especially if the agency staff weren’t familiar with the ferry or didn’t have a common first language. That was on issue on the Costa Concordia. All theoretical of course as I haven’t been on a ferry for years!

I can't remember unfamiliarity or language problems having anything to do with the Costa Concordia. Wasn't it just mistakes made by the Captain?

@crackofdoom

Barry Gardiner has just announced in the House of Commons that P&O's parent company has a £146m hole in its pension fund yet spent £147m sponsoring a golf tournament last year 🙄

I think that's from the 2020 financials; it has probably shot up in the past year.

It feels a bit like BHS all over again.

@Badbadbunny - it was the handling of the evacuation which was not done well at all. I’m not blaming the staff, it was an issue of training and procedure. But it was carried out poorly.

@airrrrAIRRRRiELLLL

Making hundreds of staff redundant without a leak is doable but employing replacement staff and all the contacts and paperwork that that involves is something else. I'm surprised there has been no ethical board member willing to grass.

This.... and not just board members but HR, security, PR etc etc - the way they've managed the secrecy is staggering.