How can you tell whether a child will be academic

[Ritamarghita]

Had a chat with a friend today. She got 2 girls, one is year 3, the other is a 3.5 yo pre schooler going to the same nursery as my 4 yo.

She is confident that her older DD will be very academic, however she thinks her younger DD will not be. She says that her older DD was a lot more advanced at 3.5 with reading and writing than the younger DD, also younger DD 'doesn't do well under pressure', whatever that means for a 3.5 yo. I felt a little deflated tbh as my almost 4.5 yo DD cannot read yet, apart from sounding out about 10 basic 3 letter words. She's very good with phonics and a fast learner but we've not focused much on the reading and writing part yet. I come from a country where we start school at 7.

I do want my DD to do well, but hearing of children reading at 3.5 yo makes me feel like I've not done enough for my DD. Can you really tell at this age whether a child will be academic? Is there real value in teaching children to read so early?

My DD (18) is rather academic. When she was very young she would spend hours looking at books with figures ( she could not read). I thought that it was because she had a severely impaired vision ( which we did not realise at the time) and once she wore glasses she was drawn to looking a the pictures in children books. But her passion for books never stopped.
I do not know if it is an acquired taste.
But I think you cannot really tell until they are much older ( maybe teachers can?)

Meh I was an early bloomer, peaked at about 7yrs old 😬 all downhill from there. I really don’t think you can tell. There are going to be some kids who are naturally extremely bright, but still you don’t actually know how they will end up or what they want to do.

You can't tell. Success at school is mostly due to character traits and parental involvement. If you want them to do well, encourage them to be resilient and curious. Stat involved and interested in their education. A lot of parental involvement drops off at secondary and the impact of this is huge.

I hope her kids don’t hear her saying these things or pick up on her beliefs about these them either. Being pigeon-holed at this point in their lives can do a bit of a number on you, especially if it’s being done by your mother.

You need to be prepared for the parents who will break their necks to tell you that their child is reading Harry Potter at ….. insert age here. Soon there will be single cell organisms reading Harry Potter but my 9 year old still hasn’t read it ( and sees reading as the work of the devil). It’s in no way related to how clever she is just what here interests are. You have to let these concerns go as much as is possible ( although I know it’s not easy)

Every person without exception who has actually said to other parents that their child is intelligent is always quite thick themselves.

I think you can tell if a child picks something up or learns something quickly. But why does it matter? My elder child was a quick learner and could read early and went to a selective school, found it all easy and got top GCSEs. My younger was not. Was middling at school, found everything difficult, never read unless forced, got OK GCSEs. My academic child left school early, didn’t do A levels, didn’t go to university. My non-academic child did A levels, went to a top university and got a first class degree.

There's the orchid and dandelion thing. Some children will thrive anywhere. Others need just the right conditions to bring them out in all their glory. The child who is a budding genius at 3 will probably need a rack of support in place to bring that genius to fruition.

You can’t tell. And even if they’re not hugely academic, they can still do well at school. So they don’t get straight A’s? What about straight B’s? That can still lead to a successful career.
The biggest indicator is always parental encouragement. That doesn’t stop with doing homework. It’s encouraging learning in general, knowing what’s going on in the world, encouraging a curiosity about the world and exploring.
Take them to the library regularly and look at books with them, take them to museums and galleries to look at one area in depth so it doesn’t become overwhelming or boring. Take them to different places.
My dc never started top of the class but have done well and enjoy learning and getting good grades.

You can tell with some children.

There's absolutely no way of knowing at that age. If I'd had guessed at those ages I'd have said Dd1 would be highly academic and dd2 not. It's the other way around by a long shot and Dd1 turned out to be extremely dyslexic which wasn't apparent at first as she started school at 4 already knowing all her sounds and reading level 2 books. Dd2 started at 5.5 knowing none of it.

Can I just add to this thread - it doesn't matter!

Support your child to be confident, have good self esteem, work hard, try lots of things and follow their talents and passions.

Neither of my two were academic and had to work their butt's off to get C grades but both are doing well in their mid 20s (one exceptionally) because they worked hard on their BTECS and were confident to take opportunities when they saw them.

More importantly, because they followed their passions, they are also working in jobs they love.

So, back to the actual question, can you tell if a child will be academic. Not for sure but early achievers stand out as good possibilities. I learned to read by myself before going to school, was academic (ish) but also worked hard and was motivated. Many of my cleverer mates fell by the wayside as they got older and found their motivations lay elsewhere and didn't work.

So, in my view, it's a bit of a mix and you'll only have limited information at the age of 3.

I think that with some children you can see that they will find primary school easy, however you cannot say that a child who does not read at a younger age will not be academic or successful. In fact I think that learning to persevere with something is best learnt at a young age. Those who naturally find those early skills effortless can then struggle later when their natural ability is no longer sufficient.

She's just speculating and none of this stuff matters.

I like looking at the differences between my DC, it's interesting, but they definitely don't always follow what you thought when they were 4 I wonder whether DS2 will be into engineering because he's interested in how things move together. I wonder if DS3 will be good at art because he has good fine motor control. But they are 3.5 and six months old. I don't really think this is their fate for life!!

By contrast I probably would have said DS1 would turn out to be a nerdy trainspotter type... he is clever (and he couldn't read until he was 6 BTW) but not remotely interested in trains now he is 13.

DS2 was one of six moved from an oversubscribed reception class and placed with year 1following brief observation and assessment. He was May born so not done on age.
His year group has just left high school, and interestingly bar one child who left, that same group outperformed their peers from primary in GCSE's.

I do think teachers have more of an insight than parents : more objective and better frame of reference

My sister’s headteacher told my parents she was unusually bright when she was 9-10 &
encouraged them to get her to do 11+/get an assisted place for a v academic school.

She’s a doctor now so obviously he could tell! I think when kids are gifted in Maths or similar the difference is more apparent vs other kids at a younger age

Absolute nonsense
A little girl in my ds class was reading in reception, she narrated the nativity and it was amazing! Now they are in y4 my ds is getting exceeding in English and maths and is known as the human calculator. I've always thought he was bright but it's only over the last 18 months that he's differentiated himself at school.

My sister couldn’t see until she was 5.5. She has glasses which are -13 prescription. She really couldn’t see!
She is now a professor.

I don’t think you can tell at 4

All I think you can tell is their attitude to learning (and that can be nourished if it isn’t there). Anecdote but DS1 would sit with our childminder and focus until he knew things (eg days of the week) whereas DS2 would get half way through then announce he was going to play because he’d done enough, thank you. This attitude has continued although they’re both still at Primary so who knows where we’ll end.

Does it really matter?

I’m a teacher - yes you can sometimes tell by 4 wether a child is going to be academic or not. It’s not just down to intelligence, it’s also their work ethic and enthusiasm for learning BUT all children develop at different rates and I’ve seen children of 9 have that lightbulb moment and just take off in all subjects.

I really hope that this wasn’t the only ‘desirable’ trait your friend decided to pit her children against each other with. Some of the most amazing children, ones I knew would change the world, weren’t the brightest in the class - they were the ones who worked hard, were empathetic, kind, enthusiastic, thoughtful and supportive of others. Those children are, in some year groups, harder to find than the ‘academic’ ones.

I wonder whether her children will pick up on the fact she thinks this way about them and compares them; children are very intuitive. I feel quite sorry for them really. Don’t worry about your DC OP, they’ll be just fine if they have the right values.

I think that often, children who are "academic" when they are young often stay that way, but many other children become so later. My DS is now 15, top of most of his classes, very young for the school year, and didn't really "blossom" until age 12.

I think relative age/maturity in year can make a big difference to how a child is perceived. So children can get labelled as being academic, sporty etc when it is just down to being relatively mature for their class.

DD spent most of her primary years as the youngest in the year. In all that time she was described as slow at her work, lacking concentration, a bit immature, academically below average etc etc.

We moved and she went to being the oldest in the year. From then on she was described as quick, attentive, mature, academically above average etc etc.

I've not read the rest of the thread but you can't tell. I was supposedly a child genius - taught myself to read...there were great expectations put on me...sure I got a degree as did many people and I am far from even remotely genius - time has taught me, I have emotional intelligence and my brain is better as a practical problem-solver - not things ever appreciated in academia.
My sister was seen as a bit average, for 2 Bs and 4 C's in her O levels - no one thought too much about her trajectory - she scores 146 on Mensa, apparently highly gifted and she is indeed very clever.
Dh was very average at school - went to bog standard primary and low performing Comp, he was a very hard worker and rose from middle ranking in Year 7 to top of the school - they measured these things in the 80's. He went to Oxbridge and he has a very successful career advising the heads of industry. I could tell you more stories like these but you get my drift. Encourage your child to explore the world and take joy in it - people do their best and they are happiest pursuing the things they love...don't make everything about a grade...allow them to love music, dance, books, and art without scoring their ability in them - ie don't suck the joy out of learning new things - the education system does enough of that - be their sanctuary.

I honestly think you can’t know at 3.5.

You can't. For a long time I thought DC2 was the least academic of my children, now he's grown up he has a postgraduate degree and is doing a job which needs a high level of expertise in his field.