8 yr old thinking we are living in a computer programme

[GoodReazons]

would be grateful for advice please! My 8 yr old is really worried we are living in a computer simulation. He has basically described the matrix or something. It is causing him quite a lot of distress "what if this is all not real / what if it's a computer programme". Serious replies only please... I know it sounds kinda funny but he is genuinely really upset and scared about it 😔 he is a deep little thinker but I am finding it hard to explain how he isn't. It is hard to prove a negative!! I am especially worried as schizophrenia runs in his dad's side of the family and when his aunt got sick she basically thought the same. So that is making it even harder for me to form coherent sentences as I am panicking a bit. Thanks xx

''Where does Space end'' used to really freak me out as a child.
All that infinity..
If surely has to end somewhere...but what goes on after that.

Heck, even thinking about it now brings back those 7 yr old panics.

does he play computer games??
might be easier to start..with..coding?
basics.
whilst reitterating...games are for "entertainment"...even the real ones have limits
maybe find if school can help locate-play therapy?

I don't think that's too unusual. This has always been in the back of my mind since I was a kid. There are loads of kids films about life being a simulation and the characters not realising. In netflix there's The Hollow. Goosebumps. Free Guy, Neverending Story etc.

No proof we're not. No proof against a million different conspiracy theories. The best you can is make him feel like the best thing you can do for a sane, happy life is to focus on the life we see around us.

And just to say...you may have a future creative genius for a son. The next CS Lewis...the next Tolkien...! Creatively intelligent minds are fragile and need nurturing towards postive and productive thoughts, but as long as you can reduce his anxiety, there's every chance he'll grow up to be a very intelligent and interesting adult

Try this. www.alphr.com/science/1007247/scientists-prove-not-living-computer-simulation-like-Matrix/
You might have to simplify the explanation but some scientists feel they have successfully disproved it because the computing power would require more atoms than likely exist in the universe.

My ds sometimes says things like this and I find the only way to beat him out is superior adult logic. ‘No we couldn’t be a computer simulation because then they would have programmed us to never think we were a computer simulation. Also it’s not possible because grandma was alive when computer games didn’t exist.’

Agree with getting outside in the real world as often as humanly possible. It’s the real antidote to the modern world and far too many don’t take advantage of it.

Although my son’s also autistic. So seems like a bit of a pattern.

No we couldn’t be a computer simulation because then they would have programmed us to never think we were a computer simulation. Also it’s not possible because grandma was alive when computer games didn’t exist.

I’m afraid neither of these disproves the theory.

I used to have this thought as a child - that I was the only “real” person and everyone else wasn’t real. They were robots rather than computer game but it seems like the same type of thing. I remember saying to my brother, how do I know you’re not a robot and him saying he wasn’t a robot. “The robots would say that though,” I thought.
However I didn’t really worry about it. If it’s actually worrying him still in a few weeks it would be worth seeing a child psychologist. Otherwise it might just blow over with lots of reassurance from you that you’re real etc.

OP, I wouldn't go explaining why it can't be a simulation 🤷🏻‍♀️ don't think it'll really work.....

Try maybe saying that you had one of the experiences the posters have put here that it is perfectly normal to have these thoughts but your child shouldn't dwell on them too much

This is very difficult because on the one hand, it's a reasonable doubt - there is no way of proving that the world is as we think it is and many famous people, e.g. Elon Musk, have said in interviews they think the world is a simulation. My worry with taking him to the GP is you don't want to pathologise what is essentially him doing good philosophy! But also, given the history of mental illness and the fact that he is worried, I can see why you want to gently put a stop to it.

I also would be inclined to do what you've been doing, engaging him with these topics in a light-hearted, reassuring way that doesn't dismiss his worries but also without getting dragged into feeling like you have to prove it.

Some potential ammunition (you know best whether this is likely to make things better or worse for your boy!):

• The philosopher David Chalmers has an argument to the effect that even if we are in a simulation, it doesn't make our reality any less real. The world is made of something - matter or perhaps the mind of God - if it turned out that those things were in turn made out of 0s and 1s (that is, if it turned out that those things were created by a computer) then so what? All that would be different is that the building blocks of the world aren't made out of the stuff we thought they were made out. Our reality is real because it's the reality that we interact with, no matter what it's made out of.

• on a similar note, your son is only 8 so probably doesn't realise this, but we are nowhere near figuring out what reality is made out of. Maybe it's digital - that doesn't mean that our experience isn't real.

• Philosopher Hilary Putnam says that even if we are in a computer simulation, that simulation is reality. Everything that we say and think about refers to things in the simulation.

• there is no evidence that we are in a simulation. True, we can't prove that we aren't but also, in science we very rarely "prove" anything! We use "inference to the best explanation" which means that the accept the hypothesis which best explains the phenomena (perhaps the simplest explanation, or the most useful) until something disproves it or something better comes along. We can't prove evolution, it's just the best explanation we've got. But that's still really good - evolution is most likely true! In general, we don't rule out every possible doubt before believing something.

• pragmatism: if you are a simulation, there is nothing you can do about it. But you're probably not, in which case, you're way better off not worrying about it. Either way it's better to believe you're not a simulation.

I'm sorry it's worrying him. These are genuine questions though, and some of the greatest thinkers have spent their lives trying to figure them out. That he's asking the question, or even that he's worried, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with him.

This was how I was thinking when I was in labour on my 3rd. I felt like I was in the matrix attached to machines and hearing random noises. When I'd open my eyes and see the midwives and partner and the room, I'd absolutely freak out saying this isn't real and at one point I kicked the midwife when she came towards me with pethidine. I often think of the possibility we are part of the matrix and life isn't really real 🤔

I used to have a similar thought at about that age, basically what if I was the only real person, everyone else was just a robot, or illusion or something.

It made sense, I could only see through my own eyes, only feel my own feelings, so how could I possibly prove that anyone else was real.

It wasn't an overwhelming worry, but it did stay with me for a while, and unlike your son I didn't tell anyone, because if I did, they might just poof out of existence.

You'll be pleased to know I turned out (almost) completely normal. My worries these days are entirely mundane, - bills, the nuclear apocalypse etc.

If he keeps bringing it up then I'd just try and have an open conversation with him about it, get him to explain his ideas, poke holes in them where there are issues, but remain open to them. It might actually help him to know that incredibly brainy people like Stephen Hawking suggested that this was a possibility, but that if so then the simulation is so incredibly life like then what's the difference, you're still living your life.

I firmly believed I was living in a book when I was that age. It didn't worry me though, I just accepted it and couldn't really process the idea of reality - a book seemed much more likely! I was a total bookworm.

If he's upset then of course look into getting some help, but I think laying off the computer games for a while and a bit more real life experiences would help.

These are common philosophical thought experiments. Just help him explore some of those. If he is wondering about this it is more likely he is just a bright kid who understands the nature of the universe is complicated vs one who has mental issues. 8 is about the age I was able to start having some interesting discussions with my child about the nature of the universe.

Kids often feel a bit of fear when they have these realizations. It’s why humans turn to religion for easy answers. Instead, help him gave the existential crisis head on. He will get through it and you will be amazed at the ideas he might have.

Oh yes, I did a fair amount of this sort of thing as a (fairly bright, if I do say so myself) child. As pp have said, it's fairly run of the mill philosophy which might interest him if you can find some child-friendly resources or an actual philosophy teacher for children!

The only bit I'd be concerned about is that he's finding it distressing, and it might help if a) he knows that lots of people have wondered about this and written things about it because it's a relatively common thing to wonder but also b) that on a practical level it doesn't really matter. I mean, anything is possible - any one of many imagined gods, that we're a computer simulation, that the Earth is actually just some alien child's ant farm - but none of it really affects how I live or feel about things day to day. What actually difference would it make to his life and what makes him happy and content?

I hope he gets some perspective and that this just morphs into a philosophical interest.

@HappeeInParis

No we couldn’t be a computer simulation because then they would have programmed us to never think we were a computer simulation. Also it’s not possible because grandma was alive when computer games didn’t exist.

I’m afraid neither of these disproves the theory.

As my son is 8 I’m not expecting world class responses. Similar to how when he doesn’t want to go to school and says he can just stay home by himself I calm the situation not by making a big drama but by saying ‘I’m afraid I can’t because the headmistress says everyone needs to go to school and that’s the rule.’ It gives a solid response.

I do think whipping it up into a big frenzy is more likely to escalate than just saying ‘no we aren’t in a simulation.’

He's probably read it online and it's freaked him out. It's a pretty common statement online (what if we're inside someone's dream/a box/ a game etc).

I mean logically it doesn't matter if we're living in a game or not. We're still going to live exactly as we would if we didn't. We're conscious and have thoughts and kids and school and jobs.

Worrying everything is an illusion but him is likely just him not being able to cognitive that everyone else has just as complex an inner life as him.

Cognitize*

Havent read the whole thread but it sounds like it could be a form of OCD, the kind where intrusive thoughts repeatedly pop into your head. My son suffered from OCD for a while at about that age, he was fixated on several things, one of which was intrusive thoughts of having caused injury to other people without realising it. It was very odd but we msnaged to get on top of it and he is now a well balanced adult who mabages not to worry to much about most things.

@Wbeezer was your son actually diagnosed with OCD? 8 is unusually young for its onset and sufferers don't tend to just have it for "a while".

I agree it's not uncommon. My 8 year old (NT) worries about things like this - being in a computer game was one. I reassure him and act blasé even if it stresses me out that he's thinking these things. He's got a very active imagination and can find it hard to block out troubling thoughts. I think it's just a phase and he'll get a better handle on his mind as he grows up.

Hi,

I've had similar with my DD. At first I was almost hysterical about it all. My daughter created this whole other land in her head, there where demons, angels, Queens, etc etc. It was extremely elaborate.

I took her to therapy and whilst they fully understood my concerns (I had psychosis) they worked out that it was just her way of managing the world. She is neurodiverse also. Now it's just kind of a part of normal life, she might talk about it but I don't make it into a big deal. And I certainly don't get freaked out like I did.