8 yr old thinking we are living in a computer programme

[GoodReazons]

would be grateful for advice please! My 8 yr old is really worried we are living in a computer simulation. He has basically described the matrix or something. It is causing him quite a lot of distress "what if this is all not real / what if it's a computer programme". Serious replies only please... I know it sounds kinda funny but he is genuinely really upset and scared about it 😔 he is a deep little thinker but I am finding it hard to explain how he isn't. It is hard to prove a negative!! I am especially worried as schizophrenia runs in his dad's side of the family and when his aunt got sick she basically thought the same. So that is making it even harder for me to form coherent sentences as I am panicking a bit. Thanks xx

My daughter says things like this sometimes. Also she worries her dad and I are fake copies of ourselves sometimes. She is being assessed for ASD (but I wouldn't diagnose someone online)- she is also very imaginative & has a fondness for philosophical thinking.

I know she can't sleep because of anxious thoughts sometimes and I really do think tiredness will make things feel weird in the way of déjà vu. It is not after all ridiculous to think about it; lots of philosophers are always talking about the universe being a simulation.

GP won't hurt but I wouldn't worry unduly tbh.

The “what if..” means it doesn’t sound like schizophrenia to me, that would be more of him being convinced of it I think. it sounds like something I would have worried about as a child, I have OCD

There is a recent film about a man who is living in a computer game called 'Free Guy'.

www.20thcenturystudios.com/movies/free-guy

I used to worry about this kind of stuff all the time as a kid, I turned out fine and never had any mental disorders. I think that once children discover a new concept, it isn't that unusual for them to fixate on it. Kids have very active imaginations.

I also had solipsism as a child. Doctors if he is very unwell but it may pass.

I read a lot of philosophy books as a child and wondered why everyone wasn't worried about these things. I would encourage the philosophical/ critical thinking and chat about the concepts with him. Does he think it's likely this is a simulation/ with who in charge/ what would that change for him etc and then gently ground him back in reality with the same philosophophical thinking: what do we know is real, we're here thinking about being here, we love each other, we taste food we feel the water in the shower we smell the flowers. Let's concentrate on today shall we and take a deep breath and make it a good one. There's a place for philosophy but in balance with activity and time outside in nature getting muddy when you're 8 years old. Some immediate concerns about his bike or where to plant seeds or how to improve at swimming should also take up some head space and distract. Please don't be scared, he sounds like a deep thinker who needs to learn the skills that will help him nurture good mental health through his life, exercise, friends and nature are a good start.

When i was about that age my dickhead uncle convinced me that the universe and everything in it wasnt real and we were just figments of some big imagination. He thought it was really funny. I was an anxious child and that really didn't help, if an adult told me something i believed them! I never told anyone but i was worried about it for a time. I wasnt ill, or in need of a GP I was just gullible.

@SwissCheeseRentedChildren

It’s only as weird as believing there’s a god.

Our reality in this world is enough of a shitshow, so what’s the difference if it’s a computer simulation and/or controlled by a god, or something else?

Someone at the top is having a laugh either way.

It's as weird as believing there is no God. Which is as weird as believing that something even as simple as a book could spontaneously form itself out of ink, paper and thread that miraculously fell from the sky.

I would engage him in the question. What's the evidence for this being a simulation? What's the evidence against it? What are the consequences if we are/are not a simulation? What does the balance of evidence suggest?

It might seem counterintuitive, but it'll make him feel heard and actually unpack his worries. And I've had much better results with this approach than the "there's no simulation, just don't worry about it" dismissive one.

Absolutely he's seen or heard about Free Guy.
My dc love the film and we've had a few discussions about what if... the computer gane theory is quite a common one. Possibly a teacher may have mentioned in a lighthearted way or a school friend.
Also yes all 8 year olds have huge anxiety about death, your death, war, destruction etc..its horrible but they do grow out of it.
They pick up a lot at school. Recently it was chat about Squid game. Pretty sure none of.l them had actually seen much beyond clips on YouTube.

Before rushing to the doctor, I would be asking where he got this idea from. It may be that a friend is regurgitating something an older sibling has told him, and he has taken it to heart.

When I was about that age my friend Emma (10) was big into doppelgangers, and told me I could wake up and everyone I saw would be a doppelganger, and there would be no way of knowing I was the only real person. I remember lying awake planning how to establish if a person was real or not. Thank God simulations hadn't been invented yet.

I used to worry about this kind of thing. I found it very soothing to read kids’ philosophy books - Sophie’s world, or ‘the philosophy files’ or any number of others. It felt validating to know other people had thought about it and how, and not be dismissed. And it gave my brain a variety of other interesting scenarios so I didn’t get too hung up on any one of them!

I also say ' yes I can see why you feel worried.. I used to worry about that. But now I don't because its nothing to worry about'. Seems to work at least 50% of the time.

@OverByYer

I dont think its unusual, like a PP said at that age I thought we all lived in a giant dollhouse/ playmate and God moved us all around at will.

I wondered whether other people had something like radios behind their heads and they didn't really talk 🤷🏻‍♀️ and I started questioning whether we all hear the same or see the same

Intrusive thoughts are normal BUT obsessing over them isn't. Do talk to GP if it's worrying you

I would seek a GP appointment, referral to CAHMS maybe. There may be a trigger he's picked up on somewhere, but I think it has a possibility of being intrusive thoughts, which is in itself a form of anxiety.

I agree with the advice to talk to him about it and help him to rationalize it though. Don't ignore it or tell him he's being silly.

I'm surprised so many people think this is worrying. I used to think exactly this as a kid, although I don't remember it causing me as much distress as you describe. My own son is convinced we're all just characters in a book. I thought stuff like this was pretty common. I just reassure them & that I'm definitely real & that I love them.

This has just reminded me that at that age I was worried maybe I was actually in a coma and my life was a dream - and every time I went to the loo I was actually peeing myself!! It wore off. I think I realised / had a chat with my mum (?) that even if it WAS a dream, would I do anything differently?! Best not to do anything stupid in case it's real though...

Does he have access to TikTok or YouTube?

I am not exactly down with the kids, but my teenage niece pointed out something recently about 'alter communities', which is effectively what your son describes: kids effectively convince themselves they have DID and nothing good happens after that.

(And, yes, to those who have pointed out the similarity to Descartian philosophy, fair and well, but you're normally in your mid o late teens before you come across this sort of thing.)

I have a DD with OCD/intrusive thoughts. That's why I think this could be an early indicator of something. She first presented with some curious ideas at this age. My personal experience was it was very helpful for my DD to get some professional help early as her thinking was causing her distress.

I also wonder about Free Guy- do you have Disney Plus?

It’s also an idea discussed widely on the internet. Have you asked him if he’s read or seen anything about it?

.

My six year old started with this when she played Roblox. I had to go to the school for advice and she was referred for counselling. I removed all computers and she seems okay now.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Early onset of schizophrenia (under 13) is extremely rare so put that out of your mind. Yes to the GP if it's causing distress.

But first thing I'd do is look at what he's been reading/watching/playing. DD tends to get these ideas from TV and books (and games). The real world is an antidote. Forest/beach/mountains. Sensory things.

Yes. Grounding activity: exercise, outdoors, nature, gardening, chores. Hugely suggest limiting screen time, this is the kind of thing that might seem real after too long in a screen. I remember having dreams I couldn't wake up from as a kid and it being scary.

It's something I can imagine wee deep thinkers wondering about; only a problem if it causes distress.

@MrsVoorhees

There is a recent film about a man who is living in a computer game called 'Free Guy'.

Yes I was just coming on to ask if he has watched this?