To think the situation in Ukraine has highlighted how racist many still are.

[username99903]

The outpouring of shock and horror at the situation is right of course. I am not trying to take away from that. I have seen some amazing examples of people trying to help and charitable giving. I of course have donated. However I can't help but think why we can not feel this empathy toward the people of Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria etc.

I have heard the most appalling statements especially from US channels talking about how Ukraine is a civilised country that you wouldn't expect this to happen to. It's like people think those from the Yemen etc are some how use to war/don't feel pain the way white Europeans do. We literally dehumanise and devalue people lives.

My work place is holding a charity event which again is great. But we have never thought to do it before for any other war where there was mass migration.

It's not a new realisation I just think it's massively highlighted it.

Ah, OK. Fair enough.

I wonder if it is because Ukrainian refugees are mainly women and children. I understand there would probably be lots of men too, if they weren't forbidden to leave.

The Middle Eastern refugees appear to be mainly men (that we see in news coverage, anyway) and have a different culture and can be very misogynistic. Of course, we have plenty of men like that here too.

However, the Ukrainian refugees may not keep moving west, unlike the Middle Eastern refugees. If you are safe, you are safe. You don't keep going and undertake potentially perilous boat trips to get to the UK, if all you want to be is safe.

I wonder if that's why the current situation renders more sympathy? I don't know, it's so difficult, I feel for everyone caught up in wars. I wouldn't leave my family in a war zone where women are seen as second class citizens, to escape myself though - I'd be taking them with me.

@littlematchstickgirl why are the men forbidden from leaving? Are they expected to stay and fight… just heartbreaking to split families.

I really don’t think that on the whole people are judging the refugees themselves more/less deserving, it’s more the context.

That it’s a war started by an external aggressor rather than a civil war that is more complex to understand.

And that it is Europe, which is both physically closer and more deeply interconnected with our own lives and national interests.

[quote Suzi888]@littlematchstickgirl why are the men forbidden from leaving? Are they expected to stay and fight… just heartbreaking to split families.[/quote]
Conscription is in effect I believe?

@littlematchstickgirl

I wonder if it is because Ukrainian refugees are mainly women and children. I understand there would probably be lots of men too, if they weren't forbidden to leave.

The Middle Eastern refugees appear to be mainly men (that we see in news coverage, anyway) and have a different culture and can be very misogynistic. Of course, we have plenty of men like that here too.

However, the Ukrainian refugees may not keep moving west, unlike the Middle Eastern refugees. If you are safe, you are safe. You don't keep going and undertake potentially perilous boat trips to get to the UK, if all you want to be is safe.

I wonder if that's why the current situation renders more sympathy? I don't know, it's so difficult, I feel for everyone caught up in wars. I wouldn't leave my family in a war zone where women are seen as second class citizens, to escape myself though - I'd be taking them with me.

Explain how 1.5m people will be safe if they just cross the border and then stay exactly where they are? After all, if they're over the border then they're out of direct bombing. Nothing bad will happen to people as long as they're out of the way of direct artillery will it...?

I don't know how to tag people, apologies...

Yes, forbidden to leave due to conscription. All Ukrainian men 18+ have to stay to fight / protect the country.

To the previous poster - I suppose I didn't mean literally over the border, but I meant the Ukrainian refugees probably wouldn't pass through many, many safe countries, then across the sea in a rickety boat, like many other refugees (mostly male) from other countries do.

Some people fleeing war need somewhere safe to go. Others who flee war, also pass through many safe countries, where they could stay. to get somewhere specific, for what would seem like additional, economic reasons. I think that's why there is more sympathy. I am not saying that is the right way to feel though.

OP you posted this in response to my point about the predominantly male refugees (migrants?) from ME and Africa in recent years:

*Just wanting to point something out about comments that it's nearly always men. It's ironically to the above statement is also a generalised sweeping statement.

www.unhcr.org/uk/women.html 50% of refugees are women.*

But that link simply says 50% of displaced people are women and children, globally and in general.

And tbh it goes against your point, doesn’t it, if women and children make up 50% of global refugees when adult males make up less than 50% of the global population.

Did you mean to publish a different link?

The invasion of Ukraine started in 2016 and the War has been going on in Eastern Ukraine since then, and (generalisation alert) nobody in Britain gave a shit. The Eastern Ukrainians are also white so I think the race argument is a little simplistic. The impact this time around is that now we feel there's a credible threat to us, and therefore we have wall to wall news about it. If the threat to use declines and Ukraine falls to Russia, with Putin stopping at that and is no further threat to us, watch how rapidly Ukraine falls out of the news and people stop giving a shit.

@MsGoodenough

The invasion of Ukraine started in 2016 and the War has been going on in Eastern Ukraine since then, and (generalisation alert) nobody in Britain gave a shit. The Eastern Ukrainians are also white so I think the race argument is a little simplistic. The impact this time around is that now we feel there's a credible threat to us, and therefore we have wall to wall news about it. If the threat to use declines and Ukraine falls to Russia, with Putin stopping at that and is no further threat to us, watch how rapidly Ukraine falls out of the news and people stop giving a shit.

Why should people carry on 'giving a shit' though? What do you even mean by 'giving a shit'? People can mobilize temporarily, they can vote, help out in their communities but the truth is there are millions of disasters, issues happening. Even things that need solving in Britain. They can't cover the same thing on the news forever. Do you expect everybody to keep reading the Diplomat specifically for updates on this one thing?

Btw I don't think the rest of Europe will sit back and be happy when Ukraine's conquered. But the ordinary man on the street - why would it be bad if their attention turned to, say, fuel poverty in Britain rather than war in Ukraine? Or even war in other places?

Yes I do feel a lot of it is racism. White refugees tend to be seen as deserving of help and support, whereas other ethnicities are looked at with suspicion. Just look at the media coverage that refugees received prior to this conflict.
I wish people would be honest and stop ignoring the truth because it is uncomfortable. Would any of these people offering their rooms take in a Somali refugee or a Syrian refugee? I doubt it. It’s not just because the refugees are women and children, as we have women and children come over from other nations too.

@somewhereovertherain

Not sure it really needs highlighting. We are a pretty horrible racist country.

Are we really? Haven't we accepted refugees from many countries around the world? People who are fleeing from countries with appalling human rights records? Countries where women and girls have no rights at all? Countries where you will be imprisoned or even executes for being gay? Gosh yes arent we a horrible country!!!

@Timewilltell519

Yes I do feel a lot of it is racism. White refugees tend to be seen as deserving of help and support, whereas other ethnicities are looked at with suspicion. Just look at the media coverage that refugees received prior to this conflict. I wish people would be honest and stop ignoring the truth because it is uncomfortable. Would any of these people offering their rooms take in a Somali refugee or a Syrian refugee? I doubt it. It’s not just because the refugees are women and children, as we have women and children come over from other nations too.

There was a lot of coverage of the plight of the refugees escaping from Afghanistan last year. And lots of discussion on Mumsnet about hosting refugees at the time.

I can only speak for myself. I'm not in a position to host any refugees- I have young children and live with family. If I were in the position to host refugees, I would happily host women and children, wherever in the world they were from. I would have safety concerns around male refugees, again, wherever they were from. This is a view that was frequently expressed on the threads here last year discussing Afghanistan.

@Timewilltell519

Yes I do feel a lot of it is racism. White refugees tend to be seen as deserving of help and support, whereas other ethnicities are looked at with suspicion. Just look at the media coverage that refugees received prior to this conflict. I wish people would be honest and stop ignoring the truth because it is uncomfortable. Would any of these people offering their rooms take in a Somali refugee or a Syrian refugee? I doubt it. It’s not just because the refugees are women and children, as we have women and children come over from other nations too.

Not whites fleeing racism in Zimbabwe or south Africa. Noone gives a cuss for them

Are we really? Haven't we accepted refugees from many countries around the world? People who are fleeing from countries with appalling human rights records? Countries where women and girls have no rights at all? Countries where you will be imprisoned or even executes for being gay?
Gosh yes arent we a horrible country!!!

Most of the people (civilians) in those countries don't support the regimes oppressing them! They have mothers, sister, daughters like us!! They don't want them executed for getting an education or not doing XYZ.

If you dare to criticise the taliban, boko haram, whatever other groups they'll kill you or throw you in jail. That's not a reflection of the people in those countries - who by the way are very diverse. They are not all the same religion etc. People come from many countries and within them are different groups.

Yes, lots of people are racist and openly hate refugees in the UK- they say stay where they are, benefits this and that, criminals, rapists based on skin colour. That's racism.

Not all are like that, attitudes have made a lot of progress in the last few centuries, and sure there are worse countries. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist though, racism is still prevalent especially in private.

Are we really? Haven't we accepted refugees from many countries around the world? People who are fleeing from countries with appalling human rights records? Countries where women and girls have no rights at all? Countries where you will be imprisoned or even executes for being gay?
Gosh yes arent we a horrible country!!!

Most of the people (civilians) in those countries don't support the regimes oppressing them! They have mothers, sister, daughters like us!! They don't want them executed for getting an education or not doing XYZ.

If you dare to criticise the taliban, boko haram, whatever other groups they'll kill you or throw you in jail. That's not a reflection of the people in those countries - who by the way are very diverse. They are not all the same religion etc. People come from many countries and within them are different groups.

Yes, lots of people are racist and openly hate refugees in the UK- they say stay where they are, benefits this and that, criminals, rapists based on skin colour. That's racism.

Not all are like that, attitudes have made a lot of progress in the last few centuries, and sure there are worse countries. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist though, racism is still prevalent especially in private.

For me I felt almost straight away after the Brexit referendum results were announced, it gave xenophobes and racists permission to not feel obliged to hide their racism . It felt more overt. I’m 100% Ashkenazi Jewish and my grandparents were Lithuanian (which was under Russian rule when they had to leave). Within days of Brexit announcement, shops near me had swastikas daubed on them, our cemetery had tombstones damaged and graffitied and because I don’t look at all British and live in a Jewish area, some twats felt it was fine to shout their car window ‘fuck off Jews’ as I was walking to the shops. It was the first time I’ve faced proper racism (I’m in my 60s). There’s been plenty discriminatory behaviour at work which I only realised years later, would now be grounds for taking to a tribunal. But there was a real change in the atmosphere after Brexit. Something my other family and friends picked up on too. A close friend wears hijab and has had far more abuse than I have and has felt more vulnerable since Brexit.

I think (and hope ) there are more unprejudiced people about then there are prejudiced ones but definitely it does seem to depend how brown your skin is and what your heritage is as to how much support people in crisis are given.