To think the situation in Ukraine has highlighted how racist many still are.

[username99903]

The outpouring of shock and horror at the situation is right of course. I am not trying to take away from that. I have seen some amazing examples of people trying to help and charitable giving. I of course have donated. However I can't help but think why we can not feel this empathy toward the people of Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria etc.

I have heard the most appalling statements especially from US channels talking about how Ukraine is a civilised country that you wouldn't expect this to happen to. It's like people think those from the Yemen etc are some how use to war/don't feel pain the way white Europeans do. We literally dehumanise and devalue people lives.

My work place is holding a charity event which again is great. But we have never thought to do it before for any other war where there was mass migration.

It's not a new realisation I just think it's massively highlighted it.

@Squidinkk

People keep talking about close to home and being on our doorstep. In what way is it close to home? Kyiv to London is 2400km.

The point is people feel emotionally closer to this because the people of ukraine are white.

@LawnFever

Ukraine has a pretty long history of conflict. Since 2014 recently, but also in dollops through the 20th century.

It isn’t surprising Putin has made this move, any more than what’s happened if Afghanistan is surprising.

I don’t think it’s all racism, as previous. But it’s in the mix. There are quite a few of these egs.

I think Saudi Arabia provides about half the world's oil - I doubt that is a good country to get into a row with. So Yemen is not going to have western involvement.

@Squidinkk - sorry I don’t know how you post got into mine - was replying to someone else.

Echo comments here that you’re understating the support that has been given to people in other conflict zones but understand how you’ve reached your view.

Behind all this is a bigger question though - what role do you want the West to play in this or other conflicts, how and to what aim? What would make them less “racist”… not getting involved in Ukraine or more forcibly imposing our values upon other countries and cultures?

There are difficult and long-standing issues around its role as the world’s policeman. The West represents values of liberal democracies and liberal economies, which essentially is what they are helping the Ukraine to defend in this instance, in part because - as others have said, it’s on our doorstep and is a threat towards our own security. But it’s simply not possible to get involved to the same degree with every conflict around the world, from so many perspectives. Racism and discrimination of every kind would also be a far greater problem if Russia or like-minded authoritarian regimes were to significantly expand or exert their influence in Eastern Europe and other countries around world.

So are you saying that we should be doing less in Ukraine, or that we should be doing more elsewhere? In which case, isn’t it the role of global organisations to be leading that, not just the West?

@Squidinkk

People keep talking about close to home and being on our doorstep. In what way is it close to home? Kyiv to London is 2400km.

The point is people feel emotionally closer to this because the people of ukraine are white.

Because it’s in Europe, and until recently people might’ve visited Kyiv on a weekend away, unlike Syria or Afghanistan - so it’s closer to home both geographically and culturally.

@stickygotstuck

I really don't think it's s much racism as a case of cultural and geographical affinity. Even allowing for the fact that Ukraine is quite different culturally and historically from the EU or the UK.

In 'the West' we are sadly used to hear about wars in far away lands for reasons that escape most of us. After Yugoslavia we didn't expect to see war on out turf again, and certainly not so soon. It's a bigger shock. It also brings actual danger closer to home.

It is outright racism when news outlets are clutching their pearls and saying "not Ukraine! That's a civilised country!"

the Ukraine women and children will want to see their families, their menfolk, so they either want to go back or the men to rejoin them, whatever happens,
it is a drastic situation

ukraine is in europe

I see it slightly differently.

The last big war in Europe was the implosion of the former Yugoslavia 1991-2001.

And when it started, it was before smartphones and when home internet was not as pervasive, cost more and was slower.

It's like how the Iraq invasion (the first major campaign of the era of the 24 hr news channels) received quite a different style of coverage.

War in your own continent is bound to provoke a different reaction to a distant war. And this one is happening with 24/7 coverage and social media. Everyone's a commentator. And there's a propaganda war there too.

And younger people, who perhaps do not remember even the recent wars in Europe, are often very active online and are having the shock of the new.

I was wondering if it's related to the recent panic buying - things getbstoked up online. Whether it's trivial or deadly serious

no the people of ukraine are in europe, as are we

There are lots of displaced people in Europe from conflicts across the globe. So if geographical proximity is important, ie they're on the same continent as us, we should help those people too. The point is, people are showing so much support to Ukraine because they're white "like us".

I'm happy the people fleeing Ukraine are getting help. It would be great if there was so much concern for all people fleeing conflict, but there isn't. That's the point.

I agree OP. Didn’t see this much support for the refugees of other conflicts eg Syria and Afghanistan. There are generally more offers of help flooding in from the public, local fundraisers left, right and centre, the foreign secretary telling ordinary people to go over and fight 🙄.
Not forgetting the racist way this war is being discussed on some media channels
twitter.com/lanceusa70/status/1499842465007915021?s=21

I think the rolling 24 hour news is pulling us in more - making it front and centre in our mind.

My children go to a school and they have done events for Syria and Afghanistan in the past, also the local church has done donations drive for sleeping bags & lists of things needed for the French refugees/migrants camps we as a community have pulled together then and again for Ukraine.

Is our reaction different this time? I could say it’s what the news are deciding to report? We seeing constant images of mothers & children - crying displaced. Usually the news in other situation are showing groups of young men - occasionally will mention there was a child also. Emotionally we feel for the little children - maybe or it’s racist?

Where we live also has a high number of Eastern Europeans - my children both have friends from Ukraine again it’s front and centre in their lives as well. When a child is saying her grandparents live there it feels closer and maybe more real to children. Speaking to friends whose brother is fighting and trying to support them. This experience in Ukraine ‘feels’ closer.

Racism - maybe? The way the news is reporting? Maybe the news should report from a Syrian refugee camp rather than showing young men trying to jump on a lorry.

Hopefully as we all learn and people that feel this emotional now will feel it again regardless of what people look like or country it is - war is crap for all regardless of where it is and compassion is needed always.

This is a bit off topic but I see the contrast with people’s attitudes during and after the Brexit referendum. In a lot of areas there was open hostility directed at Eastern Europeans and BAME people. Anyone apparently ‘foreign’ ran the gauntlet of ‘go back to your own country’. No doubt some of these ‘foreigners’ were Ukrainian.

I’ve been thinking about this too, I think it’s a combination of them being white so there is a bit of “look like us, live like us, values like us (it could be us)” - I’m not white btw

it’s because it’s close geographically so it’s a shock that borders aren’t actually real that they can be moved. I think mainland Europe and europeans felt that borders of countries are settled, the idea of an invasion seems like something from the early 1900’s, it shakes the idea of the world as we thought we knew it, conflict belongs far away not here on my doorstep

The idea that we are interdependent for economic wellbeing so I think the west struggles to understand that people do things for reasons not connected to economics so it feels utterly irrational and dealing with the irrational and the level of countries with nukes is terrifying.

Nukes

The men (and many women) are staying and fighting (obviously cos they are being conscripted) I think it increases sympathy because it feels like they are fighting back. The afghan withdrawal involved a lot of men trying to get out which I think reduced sympathy for Afghan men specifically (I read once that 87% of afghan women experienced domestic violence - that reduced my sympathy for the majority of afghan men tbh, my sympathy for afghan women is boundless).

The belief that these are genuine refugees not economic. The reality is that many refugees from places like iraq, afghanistan and syria WOULD have preferred to live in the west anyway so people don’t believe that if those areas became peaceable that those refugees would want to return and rebuild.

I think starting a thread accusing anyone who cares about the situation of Ukraine as racist is just unbelievably crass and ugly

People cared (and care) deeply about Syria, Merkel let in 1 million refugees, people care about Afghanistan and the people left behind there

Why attribute dark motives (white supremacy) to people who care about others?

Also, there is a big difference in that Putin has bombed (close to ) a nuclear reactor and has threatened with a nuclear war, so it's a different situation as we could all be affected (and due) next week. This obviously heightens People's anxiety across Europe

It's simply the proximity effect like others have said- something happening closer to you is more likely to affect you. Another factor is that this war has two clear sides, the aggressor and defender, the war in Syria has numerous different groups fighting against one another so it's sometimes hard to understand who the aggressors are.

With regards to refugees, the Ukrainians fleeing are women, children and elderly and most people feel tremendous sympathy towards the plight of children. DH and I just discussed this, would we be more likely to host a mother with young children or a young man in his 20s, we both said we'd feel more comfortable with a mother and children (we have young dc).

FWIW my parents housed a young male Afghan refugee for months.

More likely to host a mother with children than a young man

@Squidinkk

no the people of ukraine are in europe, as are we

There are lots of displaced people in Europe from conflicts across the globe. So if geographical proximity is important, ie they're on the same continent as us, we should help those people too. The point is, people are showing so much support to Ukraine because they're white "like us".

I'm happy the people fleeing Ukraine are getting help. It would be great if there was so much concern for all people fleeing conflict, but there isn't. That's the point.

I think the difference is people fleeing Ukraine are doing so into European countries which border them.

So they are being welcomed more than people fleeing countries from further away, and instead of remaining in those neighbouring countries are continuing to travel further into Europe.

It’s about geography, not racism. People can understand wanting to leave an unsafe place, but not wanting to continue to move once they’ve reached somewhere safe.

I agree. I was thinking this after the outpouring of prayers, hope and then shock and despair about the little boy who fell into a well in Afghanistan last month. That same little boy would have been treat with abuse and outrage if he arrived on our shores in a dinghy.

Other countries which are far less diverse than the UK don’t beat themselves up about it, why is that? You never hear of China, Japan, India, Malaysia, Ghana, Nigeria saying that they need more people of different races in order to be a more diverse and successful society. Why?

I’ll just leave this here.

Ukraine is described as civilised? They have racism problems themselves. In fact many deep seated engrained problems.

The reality is that many refugees from places like iraq, afghanistan and syria WOULD have preferred to live in the west anyway

That's quite the statement. You think these people wanted to be displaced? Any evidence for that viewpoint?

The Ukraine has the infrastructure to document the war via social media channels. We don't rely on journalists on the ground to document the plight of ordinary people...
Then there are also the geographical implications and the fact that it is relatively easy to go to Poland to deliver aid = no visas or other travel restrictions.

I very much remember the the reports about families in Afghanistan having to sell their daughters in order to survive the winter. Or how much women's & girls lives are getting worse. Where are the people from these reports now?
That happened only a few months ago!
Yet there is very little reporting now, because most journalists have left, thanks to the Taliban.

The same is happening in Russia, we will know very little about a possible opposition to Putin due to media blocks and the journalists exodus.

I think people/ keyboard worriers need to put things into perspective. Saying that the help offered is about race is very simplistic. It is about geography, infrastructure and how & who reports about the suffering and displacements.

I have wondered the same, OP.