The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

I’m g

@Logburning

Unless you’re in Ukraine, you’re not living in a disaster zone. Things may get economically tough for us but we are not under fire.

I was feeling like you earlier in the week but I’ve taken a massive step back from reading news sites directly and have been looking at links from this thread, which are usually accompanied by sensible and rational discussion. While the media is there to report the news, in general they also need you to keep consuming the news and individual organisations want you to get the news from them. What better way to do that than to sensationalise things- fear will keep people clicking.

I’m not denying that things feel scary at the moment but, for people outside of Ukraine, it’s the fear of the unknown rather than something that’s actually happening.

But definitely step away from the news and try to get on with normal life as much as possible- if you’re going about your business as usual then there’s less headspace for irrational fears.

But definitely step away from the news!!

Oops, posted too soon!

I’m going to repost something I’ve shared a couple of times already in the hope that it will help anyone is is struggling:

I had some therapy for anxiety/depression a year or so ago and saved some useful worksheets. Perhaps have a look at answering these questions, which I've copied, and see if it helps you to reassess things a bit:

1. Situation / Trigger - What happened? Where? When? Who with? How?

1. Feelings Emotions – (Rate 0 – 100%) - What emotion did I feel at that time? What else? How intense was it? What did I notice in my body? Where did I feel it? Body sensations

1. Unhelpful Thoughts / Images - What went through my mind? What disturbed me? What did those houghts/images/memories mean to me, or say about me or the situation? What am I responding to?

What ‘button’ is this pressing for me? What would be the worst thing about that, or that could happen?

1. Facts that support the unhelpful thought - What are the facts? What facts do I have that the unhelpful thought/s are totally true?

1. Facts that provide evidence against the unhelpful thought - What facts do I have that the unhelpful thought/s are NOT totally true? Is it possible that this is opinion, rather than fact? What have others said about this?

1. Alternative, more realistic and balanced perspective - What would someone else say about this situation? What’s the bigger picture? Is there another way of seeing it? What advice would I give someone else? Is my reaction in proportion to the actual event? Is this really as important as it seems?

1. Outcome Re-rate emotion - What am I feeling now? (0-100%) What could I do differently? What would be more effective? Do what works! Act wisely. What will be most helpful for me or the situation? What will the consequences be?

Also have a look at this website which discusses unhelpful thinking habits like catastrophizing: www.getselfhelp.co.uk/unhelpful.htm

Can someone please calm me down. I’m on my own with my 3 year old son as my DP had just left for work and my I feel as though my legs are going to give way with fear.

What are you afraid of? The chance of any of this affecting any of us exceptionally lucky people in the UK is still vanishingly small.

What better way to do that than to sensationalise things

I don’t think there is any sensationalising over this - I mean the truth is horrific enough as it is.

What I am going to say might sound a bit callous - it's not meant to.

Russia might well surround and destroy the cities.
They might well kill 1000s of people in doing this.
They might well occupy the country.
But Ukraine will survive. There will be fighting back. There will be incredibly harsh sanctions on Russia and those who support it.

Ultimately Ukraine will come back. The cities will rebuild after being devastated and I believe Ukraine will prosper. Russia will not win in the long term - as long as the West sticks to its sanctions. Cities across Europe rebuilt after WW2 when they were devastated. Countries that were bitter enemies and razed cities in their countries to the ground and killed many millions of each others soldiers and civillians came together and formed a Union to trade with each other and are now close allies working together against an aggressor.

This is going to be so hard over the next few years. But I believe Ukraine will grow back and this will change Europe for the good - but it will take a long time for this to happen.

In the meantime, the Ukrainian people will suffer and the West has to do what it can to support them and help them fight back.

That is why I am a big fan of the EU. The main members were bitter enemies and endured incredible hardship. They then came together and resolved 'never again' and worked and traded together.

I genuinely don't buy the family annihilation angle either. Anyone so terrified of covid/assassination that they sit at that comically long table...that man does not want to die

I don’t think it comes in to play now.
But if Putin is backed into a corner, by either the sanctions or by getting bogged down in a stalemate wrt getting complete control in Ukraine, then things may change with this.

I have found the news particularly upsetting this morning.

I know we can’t do anything in terms of feet in the ground.

A Ukrainian was interviewed asking what he needs from us, the US, France etc. He said stuff to protect his body so he can fight. The reporter said that won’t be coming. I don’t know if I heard that wrongly but surely we can provide basic body protection, helmets etc.

I saw on bbc the below, sorry couldn’t link, does anyone know what this means?

US to activate nuclear response team: Official

I thought the long table was more of a silly power play thing than fear of catching a disease. After all, he’s been photographed shaking hands with other people (such as Imran Khan) so can’t be too worried.

@Thewayshetalks

I saw on bbc the below, sorry couldn’t link, does anyone know what this means?

US to activate nuclear response team: Official

I think it's Nuclear Incident Response team. Small but fairly critical difference.

I also think the posters saying he looks unwell is wishful thinking sadly. I think the puffy face is due to Botox. And he’s only 69!

@parafirstjoint

A Ukrainian was interviewed asking what he needs from us, the US, France etc. He said stuff to protect his body so he can fight. The reporter said that won’t be coming. I don’t know if I heard that wrongly but surely we can provide basic body protection, helmets etc.

I would have thought so as well, we know the Germans have managed to ship helmets, though it might be it’s more important to get ordnance to the front line than body armour etc.

Difficult to get the context without hearing/seeing the report but reporter’s comment sounds speculative and putting it very politely very unnecessary.

I thought the long table was more of a silly power play thing than fear of catching a disease.

It's been well documented he's terrified of catching covid.

@Lonelycrab

I genuinely don't buy the family annihilation angle either. Anyone so terrified of covid/assassination that they sit at that comically long table...that man does not want to die

I don’t think it comes in to play now.
But if Putin is backed into a corner, by either the sanctions or by getting bogged down in a stalemate wrt getting complete control in Ukraine, then things may change with this.

Thats my point well put. He still thinks he can win. When he thinks its unwinnable and he's run out of other options, thats when it gets very risky. This will definitely be something that will be being considered by NATO chiefs.

In the meantime, everyone has to beg Germany not to be an absolute jerk

in what way? I thought it was the UK government that were being the jerks by not waiving the visa requirement for Ukranians.

Yes I just saw further down in the article it added incident.
No further info on what it means/does

Thank you to the pp who posted the link to First Draft.

This is also a good fact-checking account: twitter.com/FullFact

@Logburning

Can someone please calm me down. I’m on my own with my 3 year old son as my DP had just left for work and my I feel as though my legs are going to give way with fear. I feel like I’m living in a disaster movie.

I don't mean this to be harsh, but you post a lot of these kinds of messages on threads relating to the war but you don't really engage with posters who try to offer help or reassurance. You obviously don't owe anyone a response, but if you're this anxious it might be worth avoiding these kinds of threads and seeking support in real life. We are not directly affected in the UK at this stage, and it is unlikely that we will be, be grateful for that. I think this kind of thread is only going to be feeding your anxiety.

@nonono1 - I’m referring more to the headlines, that are designed to grab attention, or some of the ‘what if’ pieces. I agree that what’s going on is horrific beyond words and my heart goes out to the people of Ukraine, their families and everyone else affected.

@Logburning I have sent you a pm!

I worded that clumsily, we obviously are affected, but there's not an immediate threat to life or likelihood of danger for us at the present time and we should be very thankful for that.

When he thinks its unwinnable and he's run out of other options, thats when it gets very risky

Getting Ukraine will be a win for him. And he will get Ukraine, by any means. That's what Macron meant yesterday when he said the worst is yet to come.

@toastfiend I come on this thread as it seems more balanced than Twitter/Facebook etc. And I need something to help me rationalise.
But I can’t completely avoid what’s happening as it’s everywhere.
I know nobody can help on here, I just feel close to a breakdown at this point.

@parafirstjoint

I have found the news particularly upsetting this morning.

I know we can’t do anything in terms of feet in the ground.

A Ukrainian was interviewed asking what he needs from us, the US, France etc. He said stuff to protect his body so he can fight. The reporter said that won’t be coming. I don’t know if I heard that wrongly but surely we can provide basic body protection, helmets etc.

Every single interview I've heard with Ben Wallace has had the phrase "The UK is supplying lethal and non-lethal aid"

Which my rather mathematically inclined mind translates as "everything in the universe". But putting that aside, I would have thought that encompasses guns and helmets.