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Original poster

Could punishing ordinary Russians backfire?

75 replies

ThatDontImpressMeMuch90 · 03/03/2022 10:35

Although it's beyond abhorrent what Putin is doing (and he absolutely should be sanctioned himself) is it fair to punish ordinary Russians, most of whom do not support the invasion? Not only does it seem hugely unjust but could it further drive the anti West narrative? Link to an article on the matter. My very limited understanding is that the idea is to punish civilians which in turn will get them to turn against Putin, therefore putting pressure on him to withdraw. But that's obviously not going to happen so why are they continuing to punish innocent Russian people who mostly don't support these atrocities?

OP posts:
Original poster
ThatDontImpressMeMuch90 · 03/03/2022 10:35

www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/2/28/russians-denounce-collective-punishment-for-ukraine-invasion
Sorry forgot to add link

OP posts:
BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 03/03/2022 11:12

It's a calculated risk.

Pearmain · 03/03/2022 11:15

It's been worrying me too. Presumably as soon as the killing stops and Ukraine & Russia come to some kind of peace agreement the sanctions will be lifted?

zafferana · 03/03/2022 11:27

The article makes a very good point. In the West's rush to condemn Russia I can't help thinking that their punishment of ordinary Russians could well backfire. After all, Putin and his cronies are billionaires, so how much are they personally going to suffer vs. ordinary working people?

Look at what's happened in Iran over the past few years. Are the leaders of the regime suffering for a lack of food, medicine, access to foreign goods, etc? Nope, but ordinary Iranians sure as hell are.

This battle is one of hearts and minds, as much as military might. Ukraine has won the former battle for worldwide support through their bravery and determination, but I think the West should be careful how much pain it inflicts on ordinary Russians.

ABitBesotted · 03/03/2022 11:30

Sanctions always "backfire" in this way.

stodgystollen · 03/03/2022 11:34

There's a small chance it could help. A lot of very rich Russians who, let's face it are the ones with the power, have assets abroad. They hold most of their assets abroad because of weak property rights and corruption in their own country. If they're left with only Russian assets, they finally have an incentive to clean up Russia which will benefit ordinary Russians in the long run.

GnomeyGnome · 03/03/2022 11:37

This has been worrying me as well and it really makes me sad that so many Russian's will suffer because of their lunatic President. I don't see what else, apart from military action, we can do though. It's just horrific all round.

Sunnysal · 03/03/2022 11:39

I suspect many ordinary Russians are unaware of a lot of what's going on. Remember all the media is run by the state and easily manipulated, but its a lot harder to explain why the footy is off.

zafferana · 03/03/2022 11:40

@stodgystollen

There's a small chance it could help. A lot of very rich Russians who, let's face it are the ones with the power, have assets abroad. They hold most of their assets abroad because of weak property rights and corruption in their own country. If they're left with only Russian assets, they finally have an incentive to clean up Russia which will benefit ordinary Russians in the long run.
Sanctioning the property and assets held overseas by oligarchs is different and, I think most people would agree, fair game.
Feelingthepinch22 · 03/03/2022 11:41

I can see what the West is trying to do but the normal working & middle class Russians are going to be doomed & the propaganda machine in Russia is already in overdrive blaming the West..
Many many normal Russians will have had enjoyed a very comfortable standard of living, Western brands, very good education system & universities, travel, extensive children's activities etc.. How long more will their lifestyles last?
It's not their fault but how can they blame Putin without being locked up?

zafferana · 03/03/2022 11:44

As for the banning of Russian paralympic athletes from the winter games, I feel that it's all getting very petty and that the wrong people are going to suffer. Disabled athletes, really? I mean, come on. Is Putin going to give a shiny shite? Of course he fucking isn't, but those poor athletes Sad

VladmirsPoutine · 03/03/2022 11:50

It won't work. Kleptocrats aren't known for their compassion at the suffering of others. I think it will come to a head though and no idea what happens after that.

Feelingthepinch22 · 03/03/2022 11:51

I feel for the parolympians, their struggle is so much greater in every sense & now their hard work has gone to waste... They are already in sitiu in China... However I believe that other countries athletes said they would refuse to play them like the football teams & the ioc had no choice or events wouldn't be able to go ahead if teams boycotted their events due to having to play the Russians or Belarus

Duracellbunnywannabe · 03/03/2022 11:52

@zafferana

As for the banning of Russian paralympic athletes from the winter games, I feel that it's all getting very petty and that the wrong people are going to suffer. Disabled athletes, really? I mean, come on. Is Putin going to give a shiny shite? Of course he fucking isn't, but those poor athletes Sad
They can still compete just as independents rather than under the Russian flag.
MintMocha · 03/03/2022 11:55

Not any more they can't.

zafferana · 03/03/2022 11:57

No, they've now been banned @Duracellbunnywannabe. I mean, it's largely symbolic I suppose if other nations' athletes were refusing to compete against them, but I still feel like the wrong people are being targeted. Ban them for doping - by all means - but to punish their president?

Feelingthepinch22 · 03/03/2022 11:57

No it changed today, they can't compete at all...

caringcarer · 03/03/2022 12:02

A lot of older Russians seem to support Putin because they only get state censored broadcast on TV whereas younger Russians are more into multi media coverage and are getting a different picture. I think if ordinary Russians are punished they might start to look a bit harder as to why. When you see images of ordinary Russians protesting peacefully in Russia there are far more younger people and very few older ones. It will take a while for sanctions to bite but in the long term they will work.

rumred · 03/03/2022 12:03

I was wondering this too. It is unfair to punish all Russians, just as it'd be unfair to punish all brits for bojo. And as pps said it'll backfire no doubt. It seems knee jerk, given putins been up to no good for years.
Surely this was predictable? I read an article in the economist by the Lithuanian president who accused the West of pressing the snooze button instead of acting in the past.

Muminabun · 03/03/2022 12:51

Russians support putin, the protests are a fringe movement. Russians are not very politically engaged and have been criticised for being apathetic about politics. Putin controls the Russian media so they don’t have freedom of speech. Speaking out is regarded as treasonous and you can go to prison and worse for that. Russians speaking out risk a lot including their own personal safety and that of their families. A lot of Russians see this as a peacekeeping mission in eastern Ukraine only against terrorist Ukrainians who attack their own people and use them as human shields. Before RT was taken down in this country it was such an eye opener to watch it and see what the Russians were being told in their mainstream media. Of course our media can be very censored and bias but theirs is truly off the hook.
As putin says we are part of the empire of lies. We now make Russians suffer through sanctions for their noble actions yadda yadda ….

EvilPea · 03/03/2022 12:54

Some of it makes me uncomfortable too. Isolating the country makes it more insular. With less and less access to non state run media. They will be pushed more and more with the rhetoric putin wants them to believe.

I don’t know what the answer is as it’s pretty much the only stick we’ve got.

valerianaofficiana · 03/03/2022 12:56

@zafferana, the disabled athletes from others countries demanded that Russia and Belarus athletes should be removed from the games and were not going to compete if it wasn't carried out.

raspberryjamchicken · 03/03/2022 12:58

But what is the alternative? Either embark on military action against Russia, which would be extra foolhardy and cause a huge war, or just do nothing?

I agree that it's completely unfair on normal Russians and probably won't have any direct effect on Putin but the aim is to make Russia a pairah state and hope that this will drive those within Russia to somehow get Putin out.

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 03/03/2022 12:58

It is unfair to punish all Russians, just as it'd be unfair to punish all brits for bojo.

I think Bojo is the punishment, in fairness...

As for the Russians, it's an impossible situation. It's unfair and could backfire, but sadly there's no alternative.

KonTikki · 03/03/2022 13:03

I support all sanctions against Russia and the Russian people.
We have seen nothing yet regarding the suffering that will be meted out by Russian forces to the Ukranians.
The destruction and death toll will be terrible.
To start feeling empathy for the Russians is misplaced.
Yes the responsibility lies with their president, and his immediate circle.
But the suffering that is being dealt on Ukraine leaves me with nada for the Russians.