Could punishing ordinary Russians backfire?

[ThatDontImpressMeMuch90]

Although it's beyond abhorrent what Putin is doing (and he absolutely should be sanctioned himself) is it fair to punish ordinary Russians, most of whom do not support the invasion? Not only does it seem hugely unjust but could it further drive the anti West narrative? Link to an article on the matter. My very limited understanding is that the idea is to punish civilians which in turn will get them to turn against Putin, therefore putting pressure on him to withdraw. But that's obviously not going to happen so why are they continuing to punish innocent Russian people who mostly don't support these atrocities?

@KonTikki even the ones being beaten and imprisoned for protesting? Even the Russian children who were locked up recently for laying flowers outside the Ukrainian embassy?

When we were together with friends and just casually chatting about a theory was thrown around that because the rest of the world can not intervene they are hoping that the sanctions cause the Russian people to basically riot and attempt a coup.

They are the ones that need to take their country back. Even though it seems impossible.

@AskingforaBaskin

When we were together with friends and just casually chatting about a theory was thrown around that because the rest of the world can not intervene they are hoping that the sanctions cause the Russian people to basically riot and attempt a coup.

They are the ones that need to take their country back. Even though it seems impossible.

I think this has been what’s been encouraged (and hoped) all along with the Ukrainians presidents speech, anonymous hacking the state news, and the encouragement of Russian protests.

Hard to believe that despite the rhetoric, the UK will trade £2 billion worth of gas n oil with Russia this year.

i would much rather we had slightly less sanctions on Russia itself and a total halt on gas and oil trade.

Just stop sending him $700 million per DAY.

We would need to put huge pressure on the ME to make good the losses and it would hit us hard too but its probably, short of military action, the only thing that would bring him to seriously negotiate.

Stalin had a saying "the capitalists will sell us the rope which we will hand them with"

hang

@Sunnysal

I suspect many ordinary Russians are unaware of a lot of what's going on. Remember all the media is run by the state and easily manipulated, but its a lot harder to explain why the footy is off.

The Russian explaination for the paralympic ban is that Russian atheletes were just getting too good that no one else can compete with them - so they've kicked them out instead.

I suspect they'll peddle a similar story about the football...

I’m 100% in favour of sanctions. It’s very hard to invade another country when you can’t pay your troops and you need them at home to keep the peace.

Cultural, financial and sporting sanctions do work though. They serve to turn the ordinary people against their despotic president, thereby making his quest harder. Putin doesn't care about using innocent Ukranians as pawns in his willy waving contest, so unfortunately innocent Russians have to be used as pawns in return. All his making. The only difference is the Russian pawns aren't having bombs dropped on them and their lives torn apart.

@Ncwinc

I’m 100% in favour of sanctions. It’s very hard to invade another country when you can’t pay your troops and you need them at home to keep the peace.

This makes sense.

For those who support sanctions, do you really think it will work though (in turning citizens against Putin) or do you think there is a possibility it will further fuel the anti West rhetoric? I don't agree with ordinary Russians bring used as pawns just because of what Putin is doing. It's just causing more misery and unnecessary suffering. Imagine the outcry if everyone in the UK was sanctioned for the war crimes that were committed by British troops in Iraq (which were proven by the international criminal court).

@KonTikki

I support all sanctions against Russia and the Russian people. We have seen nothing yet regarding the suffering that will be meted out by Russian forces to the Ukranians. The destruction and death toll will be terrible. To start feeling empathy for the Russians is misplaced. Yes the responsibility lies with their president, and his immediate circle. But the suffering that is being dealt on Ukraine leaves me with nada for the Russians.

You realise a large swathe of the Russian people are against what he is doing, right? Why should they all be punished? You've also avoided answering OPs questions, my answer to which would be I agree, its a thin line to tread and it will either bring a resistance to the fore which will encourage change in Russia, or will feed into the oh yes the West is awful narrative.

I was reminded of the backlash against the author of Normal People when she took a stand against a non government owned Israeli publishing house and really was struggling to see how that was considered out of order but going after private Russian citizens isn't.

@ThatDontImpressMeMuch90

Its a question of scale, 7 Iraqis killed at the hands of UK troops vs what is going on in Ukraine.

I don't believe sanctions will work, Iran, N.Korea all survive, someone somewhere will supply Russia, inc us lot if we carryon buying their gas.

Maybe we all need to go a week with the heating turned down across Europe a few days.

If Russians accept Putin as their leader then they face the consequences of his leadership. Ordinary Ukrainians are being bombed out of their homes and fleeing with whatever they can carry. The oligarchs that help fund this are Russian? The banks who pay the wages of the troops firing shells are Russian. The men dropping bombs are Russian. The men driving troop transports, those fuelling vehicles, those packing food to feed the troops that are invading another country are Russian.

I feel really sad for the Russian athletes who have worked so hard to get to the olympics and are now banner through no fault of their own.

@Ncwinc

If Russians accept Putin as their leader then they face the consequences of his leadership. Ordinary Ukrainians are being bombed out of their homes and fleeing with whatever they can carry. The oligarchs that help fund this are Russian? The banks who pay the wages of the troops firing shells are Russian. The men dropping bombs are Russian. The men driving troop transports, those fuelling vehicles, those packing food to feed the troops that are invading another country are Russian.

@Ncwinc My feelings exactly, starting to dislike all Russians and thats unreasonable.

@Toddlerteaplease

I feel really sad for the Russian athletes who have worked so hard to get to the olympics and are now banner through no fault of their own.

Most disabled Russian athletes are ex soldiers, now which conflicts do you think they got injured in?

I would like to ask our government why Roman Abramovic is being allowed to sell Chelsea and other U.K. assets. He shouldn’t be allowed to cash in. They should be seized.

Russian athletics is institutionally corrupt. They have brought back state sponsored doping on a scale not seen since the fall of the USSR. I doubt that their Paralympic athletes are any cleaner than any other Russian athletes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia

I can see what the West is trying to do but the normal working & middle class Russians are going to be doomed & the propaganda machine in Russia is already in overdrive blaming the West..

As it has been since… 1917? Earlier? It doesn’t matter whether the west airdrops leaflets or goes house to house drop-kicking Russian puppies, won’t make a bit of difference imo.

@Ncwinc

If Russians accept Putin as their leader then they face the consequences of his leadership. Ordinary Ukrainians are being bombed out of their homes and fleeing with whatever they can carry. The oligarchs that help fund this are Russian? The banks who pay the wages of the troops firing shells are Russian. The men dropping bombs are Russian. The men driving troop transports, those fuelling vehicles, those packing food to feed the troops that are invading another country are Russian.

And yet that still doesn't account for the majority of Russians.

For those who support sanctions, do you really think it will work though

Unfortunately we don't have an alternative as we don't want to get involved militarily.

Do you have an alternative suggestion?

For those who support sanctions, do you really think it will work though (in turning citizens against Putin) or do you think there is a possibility it will further fuel the anti West rhetoric?

I mean, I think it will probably do both. I do also agree with a pp's point that fewer resources = fewer resources to channel into the war. Bottom line -it seems to be this or nothing, and we can't do nothing on the basis that doing this might make things worse. Especially as doing nothing might make things worse in a different way.

If Russians accept Putin as their leader then they face the consequences of his leadership.

Yes.

If large numbers of Russians started to demonstrate, Putin would have to reconsider.