Could punishing ordinary Russians backfire?

[ThatDontImpressMeMuch90]

Although it's beyond abhorrent what Putin is doing (and he absolutely should be sanctioned himself) is it fair to punish ordinary Russians, most of whom do not support the invasion? Not only does it seem hugely unjust but could it further drive the anti West narrative? Link to an article on the matter. My very limited understanding is that the idea is to punish civilians which in turn will get them to turn against Putin, therefore putting pressure on him to withdraw. But that's obviously not going to happen so why are they continuing to punish innocent Russian people who mostly don't support these atrocities?

’starting to dislike all Russians and thats unreasonable.’

I don’t dislike millions of people I’ve never met.

Russia doesn’t really do democracy. It has a long tradition of autocratic rulers, of not challenging authority and corruption, of keeping your head down so it doesn’t get shot off. I’m sure that there are lots of Russians who don’t want their country to be invading Ukraine. If they choose to keep their heads down now they’re going to suffer.

It’s easy to arrest a few hundred protesters. It’s not so easy to arrest a few hundred thousand protesters. It’s even more difficult if your police start suffering from blue flu and you find yourself with no one to do the arresting.

Whatever the rest of the world do against Russia, whether it be sanctions or military action, it will always be the 'ordinary' people who suffer the worst consequences. And that includes those Russians who don't approve of what Putin is doing.

I don't know if sanctions will work but at least ordinary Russians are not being killed, bombed and forced to leave their homes like the Ukrainians. It's worth a try surely.

@Ncwinc

I’m 100% in favour of sanctions. It’s very hard to invade another country when you can’t pay your troops and you need them at home to keep the peace.

I agree too

For those asking do I have a better solution, no I don't. But equally I still can't see what good will come of punishing innocent people. It's disgusting what is happening to those poor people in Ukraine but to sanction ALL Russians for the actions of a minority seems a bit tit for tat and will likely achieve nothing. I appreciate something needs to be done, but as PP have said it does seem rather knee jerk and possibly counter intuitive. If it was likely to stop Putin then I could see the rationale but that's clearly not going to happen so it all seems rather pointless and allowing millions more to suffer.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/how-russian-sanctions-work/622940/

I don’t think you understand what the sanctions are intended to do.

I think sanctions are the least worst option we currently have.
The other options being do almost nothing (the option Putin seems to have expected) or engage in military conflict.

I have nothing against ordinary Russians. DH works for a multinational and we know a lot of them. They are all pretty horrified by what is happening in their name.
We also know Ukrainians and their families are having a much worse time.

By engaging in business with Russia we are supporting the country's GDP. That money is being used to wage a war in Europe. War is very expensive, we in the west shouldn't be helping to fund Putin do this.

Without starting WW3, sanctions are the most effective weapon we have.

These sanctions are the most effective course of action realistically open to us. The point is not to “punish” the Russian people but to destabilise Russia and forment dissent against Putin at home. Economic chaos brings down governments. Putin knows his history and he (and the Russian people) will be very aware that when people don’t know how they are going to pay their bills and feed their families it can bring down a whole regime. The Russian Revolution began with bread riots. You can’t fight a war abroad when there’s that level of discontent at home. There’s a fair chance that this will actually work.

@ThatDontImpressMeMuch90

For those who support sanctions, do you really think it will work though (in turning citizens against Putin) or do you think there is a possibility it will further fuel the anti West rhetoric? I don't agree with ordinary Russians bring used as pawns just because of what Putin is doing. It's just causing more misery and unnecessary suffering. Imagine the outcry if everyone in the UK was sanctioned for the war crimes that were committed by British troops in Iraq (which were proven by the international criminal court).

It's war though. We cannot take military action but this is our way of engaging in the war and showing support for Ukraine. We can't do nothing!

Sorry if it's been pointed out already, but the UK's sanctions on the oligarches and banks are due to start 30 days after they announced them. Plenty of time for the rich Tory backers to move their loot elsewhere before anything happens to it. Disgraceful!

Meanwhile general sanctions have tanked the rouble overnight, meaning ordinary Russians are hit hardest.... :-(

It is incredible people still think that majority of Russians support Putin. Haven't you noticed what happens to rich people who go against his wishes? Elections results have nothing to do with they way people vote and open demonstrations will lead to imprisonment at the best case.
All is happening now will result in dramatic damage to ordinary Russian people. Unlike Ukrainians, Russians won't get any help from anyone.

’Economic chaos brings down government’

This. Those with the most money and power who are standing by him at the moment are also the ones who have the most to lose.

I work for a very large company ( non food retail) and we are boycotting Russian and Belarusian products

It's a good move. We can source the same products cheaper from elsewhere. So someone else wins from it

It's how businesses work

The Russian people will need to adapt their lives as a result maybe but that's life unfortunately

Thank you everyone for your replies, particularly @Ncwinc, I'm always happy to be educated. I admit I know very little about such matters. I understand now why the decision to sanction was made although to be honest I still feel very uncomfortable about ordinary Russians suffering. I know people may feel the end justifies the means and of course it is better than an all out war, but it is still a very bad situation for the Russians who are pawns in it all.
Can I just ask though, what do you think the next step would be if sanctions didn't work? Not being goady, genuinely curious to how things may pan out.

It’s war through economics. As other posters have said it always impacts the poor the hardest. Just like with military action, those who make the decisions aren’t the ones on the front lines.

I don’t know how things will play out. Things are changing all the time and Putin is allegedly ill.

There's just been an alert on my news app saying there's 'much worse to come' this was from Macron I believe

So. Take from that what you will

Yes he's allegedly got a bit of Parkinson's disease....cancer too. Throughout his presidency he hasn't really done much so if he's going down he wants to ensure he's in the history books

A dangerous,dying man with nothing to lose

Many ordinary Russians are unaware of what's happening. Reports coming in that no newspapers have been published there for a week and their internet isn't as open as ours is for information.

When they get hit with the hell the sanctions bring, the propaganda will blame the West and yes, it can backfire.

He needs a nice cup of tea.

Unfortunately it could. Whilst we are rightly outraged and want to be seen to be doing something, banning paralympians and not drinking vodka isn't going to solve things

@ThatDontImpressMeMuch90

For those asking do I have a better solution, no I don't. But equally I still can't see what good will come of punishing innocent people. It's disgusting what is happening to those poor people in Ukraine but to sanction ALL Russians for the actions of a minority seems a bit tit for tat and will likely achieve nothing. I appreciate something needs to be done, but as PP have said it does seem rather knee jerk and possibly counter intuitive. If it was likely to stop Putin then I could see the rationale but that's clearly not going to happen so it all seems rather pointless and allowing millions more to suffer.

But equally I still can't see what good will come of punishing innocent people

Unfortunately you are never ever going to be able to single out only the guilty from the innocent in something as large as a country and the guilty will always make things worse for the innocent.

On a much, much, much smaller scale, and where the culprit was known , take the recent incident of the GB 4 x 100m relay team being stripped of their silver medal from the Tokyo 2020 olympics. It was only one of the squad who tested positive for a banned substances but the other 3 also had their medals taken away, even thought they may have had no idea their team-mate was cheating.

We can't do nothing. If NATO starts any military action hundreds of thousands of innocent people will lose their lives and much of Europe and Russia will be toast, literally.

We aren't 'banning' Russian items or boycotting them

We are just stopping trading with them

We don't agree with their actions so find another customer

I’m 100% in favour of sanctions. It’s very hard to invade another country when you can’t pay your troops and you need them at home to keep the peace

I agree.

If we don't want to fight Russia militarily we have to fight economically - unfortunately this means hardship for many Russians, until the Government is brought down.

But economic hardship is nothing compared to the military attacks that the poor Ukrainians are suffering!

I don't understand the ins and outs of this, but I know I do feel very sorry for ordinary Russian people, especially those who oppose Putin, and who feel helpless to change things.
I obviously am horrified by Putin's actions. But, I know how totally horrified I felt when Britain invaded Iraq. I was very young then, and felt helpless. It was an illegal invasion, and Tony Blair still walks free. To be prejudiced against all Russians right now would be monumentally hypocritical of us, as British people. Britain is historically a very guilty nation, on the world stage, but that doesn't mean we as individuals are. Same goes for Russians now.
I feel sorry for ordinary Ukrainians and Russians alike. All the same human family...