Can someone help me understand the sanctions against Russia?

[youhadmeatjello]

I’ve done a bit of reading and understand the Swift payment sanction and Germany with Nordstream.
What I don’t understand is the new wave of sanctions that seems to be specifically targeting the people - not allowing their children in western schools for example.
Removing property from Russians in the UK.

I understand the removal of assets from Putin’s so called oligarch friends - is the thinking there that they will force something to happen? Do they have that power?

I have to confess to feeling a certain amount of reassurance that the red button wouldn’t be pressed due to the amount of Russian interest in the UK, but it seems like we are removing a lot of it? And does much of it actually affect Putin himself or is it more about cutting Russia off as a whole and hoping some kind of action from within is taken (which seems unlikely to me?)?

@NETSRIK

Surely there will be people close to him that want him out. Surely there is a plan to overthrow him? He is obviously mad.

I hope so. If somebody took a pot shot right now, would there be the momentum to continue with his plan to re-appropriate Ukraine, or would they get new leaders who gave ukraine back to the ukrainians.

@Torag

Sanctions are a much used tool of international law. Unilateral sanctions are perfectly lawful in the UK under the Sanctions Act.
www.gov.uk/government/collections/uk-sanctions-regimes-under-the-sanctions-act#:~:text=This%20includes%20regimes%20under%20the,a%20particular%20set%20of%20purposes.

The Article 1 Protocol 1 ECHR right to property is not an absolute right and can be balanced against other rights, particularly those which are absolute. It must pursue a legitimate aim (e.g. national security or the protection of the rights of others) and must be proportionate - which is why the sanctions are targeted specially at those connected with or funding Putin/the regime. Every sanction issued will be fully legally vetted beforehand.

@ivykaty44

Have you listened to some of his speeches??

Can you speak Russian?

I’ve listen to the translation of speeches, nothing to different from U.K. and US leaders

I speak Russian fluently and am happy to assure you those speeches are NOTHING like you can hear from other leaders including the Ukrainian president. They're unhinged, crude and reminiscent of Joseph Goebbels in their ranting. Putin does have long form for gutter language incidentally which he seems to think will win him followers domestically - back during the Chechen War he threatened to "bump them off in the outhouse". But those recent speeches go beyond that, they're also rambling and incoherent.

The people at the bottom have never been able to rid Russia of Luton and many don't feel there's much point trying.

Is Luton part of Russia now too? Well, that explains a lot. 😂

Sorry - couldn't resist. As you were.

[quote Fiefofum]@Torag

Sanctions are a much used tool of international law. Unilateral sanctions are perfectly lawful in the UK under the Sanctions Act.
www.gov.uk/government/collections/uk-sanctions-regimes-under-the-sanctions-act#:~:text=This%20includes%20regimes%20under%20the,a%20particular%20set%20of%20purposes.

The Article 1 Protocol 1 ECHR right to property is not an absolute right and can be balanced against other rights, particularly those which are absolute. It must pursue a legitimate aim (e.g. national security or the protection of the rights of others) and must be proportionate - which is why the sanctions are targeted specially at those connected with or funding Putin/the regime. Every sanction issued will be fully legally vetted beforehand.[/quote]
Thank you for posting this; interesting and helpful.

Grumpy as someone who is a Russian speaker and therefore can understand the contact and tone of Putins speeches rather than getting an interpreters 'version' (I get the words are the same but translations can lose full meaning)

Do you think Putin is unwell? Do you think the tone of his rants and the content has changed from the previous speeches he's made over the decades.

I've heard many say he's not well either medically or mentally. But only seeing his face and hearing others words translate his it's hard to fully grasp.

@Torag

The people at the bottom have never been able to rid Russia of Luton and many don't feel there's much point trying.

Is Luton part of Russia now too? Well, that explains a lot. 😂

Sorry - couldn't resist. As you were.

I'm glad that the only typo you pulled me up On.

There were many others 🤯🤣

v

thanks, im so cynical of the west and their brand of propogander - I don't trust their translations

GrumpyPanda that was to

It's a very complex situation but it's harder have draconian rules when each layer below you has people against you with a stake in the change.

yes agreed

But my point about sanctions from the uk is that they are really only for show, and have to be done to save face - look what we are doing against the bully (that has funded our party politics) and isn't it great we are not sitting back and doing nothing

We have our army with NATO in the area, like many other members of NATO

but the sanctions are presently pathetic and good media coverage to please the population of the western world

This is interesting on the SWIFT stuff www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/how-russian-sanctions-work/622940/

@Torag

How is it legal to seize their assets? If they own a house / yacht outright how can a government take them?

1. Quite common under a sanctions regime to freeze (not seize as such) assets of people specifically indicated. Remember this isn't the ordinary Russian Joe Bloggs were talking about, but people individually implicated in war crimes.

1. In many cases anti-moneylaundering legislation already applies - google unexplained wealth orders. Has been used before but extremely hesitantly.

But 3. frankly most of this is just posturing from the UK government. So far they're not doing anything to address the root causes (such as anonymous holding structures) that have enabled the funneling of billions and billions of illicit Russian money through the London laundromat.

@itsgettingweird

Grumpy as someone who is a Russian speaker and therefore can understand the contact and tone of Putins speeches rather than getting an interpreters 'version' (I get the words are the same but translations can lose full meaning)

Do you think Putin is unwell? Do you think the tone of his rants and the content has changed from the previous speeches he's made over the decades.

I've heard many say he's not well either medically or mentally. But only seeing his face and hearing others words translate his it's hard to fully grasp.

Should caution I'm not a native speaker, but have lived in Russia and work on the area professionally. Also, I haven't yet brought myself to suffer through the full hour of Monday's speech...

That said, yes his manner and tone of speaking definitely sounds very different from other occasions the past couple of decades. Especially the last snippets where he's urging the Ukrainian military to mount a coup d'etat (ironically against a democratic government that he keeps calling a junta.) He's not even calm anymore, there's a nervous, overexcited tone to it all.

There have been reports that he's become increasingly paranoid during and about Covid - the grotesque scenes at those football field sized tables certainly support that. What's certain is that he's definitely become more and more enmeshed in a narrow bubble of security sector people over the past several years already. I spoke to a Russian foreign policy expert acquaintance back in 2016 or so, somebody who actually heads a think-tank that used to be close to the Kremlin, and he told me back then they no longer had any good insights into what's driving internal decision-making.

There's also some seriously paranoid thinking around him. Didn't see the original source but apparently one of his former chief strategists published an article in which he was ranting about how Russia couldn't possible accept the "dictate of Brest-Litovsk" inflicted on them by Germany. That's tsarist Russia and imperial Germany for the record, back in 1918. So like close advisors to Merkel and now Scholz advocating for overturning the dictate of Versailles. Legitimate fears of NATO encirclement my arse, that's imperialist phantom pains.

Fiefofum

but, it hurts both sides and that is why the western nations are stalling and trying to circumnavigate

@Fiefofum

Fabulous article thank you.

@NobodysGonnaKnow

You can strip criminals of their assets. I guess it’s up to the government to prove those assets were bought with dirty money.

There is a significant additional problem here. Most assets will be owned by foreign registered companies in places like Panama. A property in Mayfair might be owned by Unicorn LLC, registered in Panama with nominee shareholders called Jorge and Maria who both live in a nice if modest villa in Tocumen. The company may also own $1bn of investments and a share in a Maltese company that is in partnership with a Cayman company that charters a yacht owned by a company registered in Monaco. Those companies do not file accounts the way we do in Europe. Proving who owns the assets may be impossible.

@vinoandbrie

By significantly reducing the support Putin has from this gang who are close to him. My fervent hope is that his support crumbles, both at oligarch level, and at Russian person on the street in Russia level, and that he is toppled. Is this incredibly naive? Perhaps. But I can hope.

Maybe you are naive, but keep hoping, vino.

Thank you, I will. And I’m contributing what I can to Ukarine, it’s better than nothing.

I really believe that if the West can lock oligarchs out of their lifestyles here in the West (banning them from flying their private jets, revoking school places etc), combined with broader economic sanctions to create a groundswell of discontent among the Russian populace who fear that their roubles will become worthless, this is how pressure can be exerted on Putin.

I note Denmark and Italy have now joined the U.K. (and plenty of other countries) in closing their airspace to Russian aircraft.

Slava Ukraini!

I know I should look these two things up so you can be cross with me if you want to be, but 1. Does Russia still have national service, to have an army of conscripts? and 2. what goodies does Ukraine have which he wants?
In the past I have thought of writing protest letters to the Russian embassy about the treatment of Navalny, and I haven't done, but now's the time I stopped being lazy and wrote a letter about a bit more besides. Of course it won't make much difference - just one letter's worth, but it will join all the other protests and I'm too far away from the big cities to demonstrate.

Sadly it looks as though Belarus is joining the Russian invasion and potentially other countries aligned with Putin. I’m devastated for Ukraine. What a bunch of cowards the West have turned out to be.

Can someone help me understand the sanctions against Russia

"Stop hitting Ukraine or we'll take your toys away and stop your friends coming round to play..."

@ivykaty44 This speech
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/its-not-rational-putins-bizarre-speech-wrecks-his-once-pragmatic-image

and tell me he sounds rational.

I think Putin is the type of guy that would think... "well if I'm going out, so is everyone else! With a bang" scary times :(

@FreyaMaya same, that’s what’s keeping me up at night at the moment! That’s not good news about Belarus.

Why are you feeding this troll?