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Original poster

Can someone help me understand the sanctions against Russia?

81 replies

youhadmeatjello · 27/02/2022 07:50

I’ve done a bit of reading and understand the Swift payment sanction and Germany with Nordstream.
What I don’t understand is the new wave of sanctions that seems to be specifically targeting the people - not allowing their children in western schools for example.
Removing property from Russians in the UK.

I understand the removal of assets from Putin’s so called oligarch friends - is the thinking there that they will force something to happen? Do they have that power?

I have to confess to feeling a certain amount of reassurance that the red button wouldn’t be pressed due to the amount of Russian interest in the UK, but it seems like we are removing a lot of it? And does much of it actually affect Putin himself or is it more about cutting Russia off as a whole and hoping some kind of action from within is taken (which seems unlikely to me?)?

OP posts:
Mischance · 27/02/2022 08:58

@The2Omicronnies

I fear all these sanctions will lead Putin to think he has nothing left to lose and therefore push him to do something even more unhinged than he already is. Russia are losing out culturally, financially, societally and sportingly…what will they have left? How will it work to reintegrate Russia and their people back into the world? Surely this cannot happen during Putin’s time.
This is my concern. He is a man without conscience and humanity - he can stop at nothing without a qualm. He is not a normal functioning human being with morals.

I hope that someone sticks a foot out when he is at the top of the stairs..... so much for my morals ...... but desperate situations require desperate measures.

Torag · 27/02/2022 08:59

How is it legal to seize their assets? If they own a house / yacht outright how can a government take them?

ivykaty44 · 27/02/2022 09:01

How is it legal to seize their assets? If they own a house / yacht outright how can a government take them?

Who will stop them and say that’s illegal?

NETSRIK · 27/02/2022 09:03

Surely there will be people close to him that want him out. Surely there is a plan to overthrow him? He is obviously mad.

Torag · 27/02/2022 09:11

@ivykaty44

How is it legal to seize their assets? If they own a house / yacht outright how can a government take them?

Who will stop them and say that’s illegal?

Well I would hope our government will act with integrity and use other legal sanctions available to them. They go low, we go high etc etc
ivykaty44 · 27/02/2022 09:17

Well I would hope our government will act with integrity

Spat my coffee out 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

You think this government even know what integrity means?

Torag · 27/02/2022 09:19

Well there is a point there which isn't lost on me, but parties in No.10 isn't going to aggravate a nuclear power, but illegally seizing the assets of citizens of a country with a power hungry, volatile dictator has the potential to really piss him off, so playing by the rules at this point might be more prudent.

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 27/02/2022 09:22

Who will stop them and say that’s illegal?

I read an article yesterday that said they're frantically consulting lawyers about it 😄 strip 'em bare ✊️

ivykaty44 · 27/02/2022 09:23

so playing by the rules

Which rules are they? Which rules say assets can’t be seized?

RedRobin100 · 27/02/2022 09:24

There’s not much anyone can do to get at Putin personally, short of going in and taking him out (before he has the chance to start a nuclear war..)

I agree that sanctions affect the people the most - and not just the oligarchs. It’s really
Difficult to see how that is fair on the general population, particularly when it’s NOT a democratic situation so they can’t just decide they’ve had enough and vote him out or whatever.

Maybe what we have to hope for us another Arab Spring type movement to get rid of him.

NobodysGonnaKnow · 27/02/2022 09:27

You can strip criminals of their assets. I guess it’s up to the government to prove those assets were bought with dirty money.

ivykaty44 · 27/02/2022 09:30

“Oh, that’ll never happen, because Russia needs the money. It has to keep its exports up.” But Russia is more willing to absorb that pain than European countries are, or than we might be if we see people starving. Let’s also remember, since late 2015, these guys have built the fourth-highest foreign currency reserves in the world. It’s at least $640 billion. They also have a national wealth rainy-day fund which is 12% of their GDP. It’s $185 billion because Putin did not spend on Covid relief. He just said: “My people will suffer. But I will have a rainy-day fund, because if the West comes after me, I need to be insulated. I need to be a fortress.” So Russia’s macro picture is as strong as any country ever going into a threatened financial Armageddon.

Full interview here
www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-02-23/russia-sanctions-which-ones-would-hurt-putin-most

MintMocha · 27/02/2022 09:39

I don't really understand what the plan for the sanctions are to end the war - I get how it's going to hurt Putin's popularity, etc, but are they actually expecting him to surrender? Call it off? Sign a treaty? There doesn't seem to be a way back for him, other than to be taken out from the inside, and a new leader take over. And even then, how would Russia ever come back into the banking system and other connections with the world? I totally support the sanctions, but just wonder how it's meant to work practically, when there is no way back for Putin.

I do also wonder about the legality of seizing assets etc, but I guess there must be some way that it is. I was a bit surprised that they could do that for people with Russian background, without more proof that they have been involved in criminal activities, but maybe they have that proof. Where and when does removing assets from allies of Putin tip over into general discrimination against ordinary people with Russian background, and is that fair? It's not their fault, and there's not a lot they can do about it.

vinoandbrie · 27/02/2022 09:41

The European Commission, France, Germany, Italy, UK, Canada, and U.S. have announced they will disconnect certain Russian banks from Swift and will take restrictive measures to prevent the Russian Central Bank from deploying its international reserves to undermine sanctions.

The action on Russia’s central bank effectively blocks Putin’s access to that $640 billion you mention, as much of it is held in western central banks (London, NY, Frankfurt).

vinoandbrie · 27/02/2022 09:45

I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a run on Russia’s banks tomorrow. Which would also work to turn the general population against Putin.

Torag · 27/02/2022 09:57

@NobodysGonnaKnow

You can strip criminals of their assets. I guess it’s up to the government to prove those assets were bought with dirty money.
I just don't believe they have time to investigate that properly and prove it, so seizing their assets will be illegal and we become no better than Putin and his oligarchs.
ivykaty44 · 27/02/2022 10:00

Europe will not get gas if they don’t pay for it

This is a case of cat and mouse and why sanctions aren’t straightforward

Torag · 27/02/2022 10:03

@vinoandbrie - interesting if this does happen. I hope you are right.

ivykaty44 · 27/02/2022 10:03

www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2022/01/31/how-can-putin-afford-war-in-ukraine-his-130-billion-gold-horde-helps/

This explains somewhat how Putin has plotted to overcome some of the hurdles of sanctions by the west

Tigersonvaseline · 27/02/2022 10:05

The Man whose in prison/ russian opposition has a list of 35 oligarchs whose assets need seizing and whose movements need immediately curtailing.

Putin will absolutely care about the people around him because they hold him up!

Tigersonvaseline · 27/02/2022 10:06

I wasn't reading that Russian GDP debt is incredibly low.
He's got a huge war chest.

ToMockAKillingBird · 27/02/2022 10:12

Ivykaty44

Conveniently America has offered to supply Europe with fracked gas (I wonder if that had anything to do with Biden not wanting NordStream2?)

I can understand why sanctions have been put in place to put pressure on Russia but a cornered rat is dangerous. Putin may feel he has nothing else to lose and go for broke. Hopefully he'll see sense and negotiate a withdrawal (wishful thinking perhaps.)

lightand · 27/02/2022 10:14

@ivykaty44

Have you listened to some of his speeches??

Can you speak Russian?

I’ve listen to the translation of speeches, nothing to different from U.K. and US leaders

Pretty sure I heard him speak in English. Though writing that, that doesnt sound quite right. I will see if I can find a speech. The speech was ludicrous.
Thereisnolight · 27/02/2022 10:18

@Torag

How is it legal to seize their assets? If they own a house / yacht outright how can a government take them?
Yes I agree. This is a bad road to go down and makes the west no better than anyone they claim to be superior to.
itsgettingweird · 27/02/2022 10:24

@ivykaty44

How is going to hit Putin where it hurts? In what way will it hurt him?
I think the UK going for the Oligarcs will affect him in a way that the world will see he's absolutely fine to far and not only losing culprit verbally - but also financially and from counties who've always allowed and welcomed his corrupted money despite verbally saying they don't agree with him.

It's all about a hierarchy approach.

The people at the bottom have never been able to rid Russia of Luton and many don't feel there's much point trying.

Those at the top with the wealth won't want to a) lose that wealth and b) be seen to be doing nothing when they've been thrust into the public about the sanctions and why.

It's a very complex situation but it's harder have draconian rules when each layer below you has people against you with a stake in the change.