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The invasion has begun

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 24/02/2022 03:50

Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

OP posts:
GuyFawkesDay · 24/02/2022 09:52

@ToMockAKillingBird

I never thought I’d give Trump credit but I genuinely don’t think this would have happened if he’d still been President. The West is led by weak men - Boris, Biden etc and countries have been battered by COVID. Putin has taken his opportunity to invade Ukraine at precisely the right time. China will no doubt see it as an opportunity to further weaken the US and will likely side with Russia, at least diplomatically.

We are definitely in very dangerous times.

Someone's been on the koolaid

Trump is a Russian stooge. Let's call it as it is. He appeased and toadied up and continues to do so. He'd roll over like a puppy for Putin, because Putin holds Kompromat on Trump. Buckets of it.

Tigersonvaseline · 24/02/2022 09:53

The EU is extremely strong and robust, it's made up of loads of nations.

The UK definitely has certain strengths but the EU as a strong powerful block really doesn't need us.

If we stayed in and made it stronger it would be by a negligent amount.

notimagain · 24/02/2022 09:54

@cakeorwine

“ I hope we have good ground forces if it ever came to that.”

Don’t bet on it.

For years, certainly since around 1990, many have turned their noses up at spending on defence…OTOH plenty of people have been concerned for several years about the build up and re-equipment of Russia’s armed forces, but the trouble is they were ignored and worse still even in the last few days in this place some posters have been trotting out platitudes such as the Russian army is ill equipped…

In direct answer to your comment about the west using smaller nuclear weapons on it’s own territory….certainly a part of NATO doctrine in the eighties was that they might have been used if NATO forces had ended up with their backs to the wall and were in danger of being completely overrun by Warsaw Pact forces in Western Europe.

I really have to emphasize for the anxious that that comment is in answer to your post, I am not saying we are in that situation today and I think it is highly highly highly unlikely we are heading that way.

cushioncovers · 24/02/2022 09:54

Does anyone think sanctions bother Putin? Would he not have spent months planning how to manage in spite of them?

spacehardware · 24/02/2022 09:54

@ToMockAKillingBird

I never thought I’d give Trump credit but I genuinely don’t think this would have happened if he’d still been President. The West is led by weak men - Boris, Biden etc and countries have been battered by COVID. Putin has taken his opportunity to invade Ukraine at precisely the right time. China will no doubt see it as an opportunity to further weaken the US and will likely side with Russia, at least diplomatically.

We are definitely in very dangerous times.

I agree. Absolutely no fan of trump but I think he was so erratic, Putin wasn't entirely sure how he would react.

Biden has basically invited this invasion by saying the US will not respond militarily under any circs to defend Ukraine. He handed Afghanistan to the taliban on a plate too. Starting to wonder if he's the Manchurian candidate

Alondra · 24/02/2022 09:56

@MarshaBradyo

Mind you, none of the above would have stop the invassion of Ukraine.

Of course it wouldn’t.

I have more sympathy with previous post on Biden feeling weaker than Trump and withdrawing from Afghanistan as an indication of where they stand on world stage - although Trump started this process so it was both parties

Germany up to today was perusing diplomatic relationship with Kremlin and has only offered weapons (and admitted it should have been sooner)

I can’t see much diverting where we are today

Ukraine will fight back as much as they can whether promises of NATO were there or not

The problem with the US is that whoever is on the Presidency, doesn't really change international policies. The power of the US is declining, they can't maintain troops overseas, cost a lot of money, when they have serious issues to address at home.

It doesn't mean US power has diminished. They are still investing billions in Eastern Europe politicians ...and Russia knows this.

GuyFawkesDay · 24/02/2022 09:56

Nope I think Biden is fully aware he cannot start WW3 with a nuclear threat, so de-escalation has to be exhausted before any other action.

This is not 1939. Geopolitics is hugely different. The USA and UK are not the economic centres of the globe any more.

CryingAtTheDiscotheque · 24/02/2022 09:57

The best thing that happen to Putin was Brexit - it divided the EU making it weaker. The UK these days is not a country for him to care about, his efforts are in trying to break the biggest trading block in the world - the EU.

Sadly I agree.

GallopingHighRoad · 24/02/2022 09:58

This is Putin's last opportunity to hang on to the old Russia and he knows it. He will not live forever. Riding horses bare-chested in cold rivers will not turn back the ageing process.

The problem with dictators seizing back control is they create a vacuum behind them.

In a new world order, where China comes to equal the US in financial strength, Russia's long term future lies with Europe as does ours (UK). There is no natural cultural symbiosis between Russia and China. It will take some brave people to come forward and manoeuvre Russia's political will back into Europe, but younger generations will take it there eventually.

The amount of Russian money that has been invested into London real estate (and into French property also) is staggering. This is not all owned by oligarchs close to Putin. Nobody knows the full extent because it mostly comes through layers of offshore trusts and companies in the Caribbean, Mediterranean and Switzerland. There is little sanction that will be brought against real estate, because in practice it does not have the immediacy that blocking $100m in a deposit account does. There will be little appetite to block personal funds for the reason that it alienates those who may hold different views to Putin, who may want a different political system in Russia and who may be the only ones capable of funding that change when his time is up.

CassandrasCastle · 24/02/2022 09:58

[quote Cocomarine]@drayday
“My Ukrainian friend called her family early this morning and they can see explosions from their windows. They are terrified.

It's nothing, i know. But I will be donating money to a Ukrainian based Animal Rescue.”

That has actually taken the prize for the most pointless (bordering on offensive) piece of virtue signalling I’ve seen on MN 🤯[/quote]
Good grief! I still can't quite get my head round the mindset of this humble brag

CryingAtTheDiscotheque · 24/02/2022 10:00

Good post Galloping.

MarshaBradyo · 24/02/2022 10:03

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

The best thing that happen to Putin was Brexit - it divided the EU making it weaker. The UK these days is not a country for him to care about, his efforts are in trying to break the biggest trading block in the world - the EU.

Sadly I agree.

I genuinely think people are underestimating Putin when Brexit is seen as a factor to this degree.
Thewiseoneincognito · 24/02/2022 10:04

What exactly will the West do now? Condemning actions and more sanctions can only go so far. He’s made his move, precisely as expected. The coming days, weeks and months could have ramifications in ways we can not imagine.

Too many innocent people are going to have their lives destroyed, with millions of families, couples, friends, children all facing an impossibly bleak future after today.

MNHQ may want to consider starting a War board for these threads, I feel this isn’t going to be the only one.

MyMaiTai · 24/02/2022 10:04

@Cocomarine, I completely agree. What a ridiculous post.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 24/02/2022 10:04

Today 07:33 Keepyourheadscrewedon

The UK is not small fry, is has a powerful army and navy with nuclear weapons, of which I am glad we now have. The EU/US/NATO combined would defeat the Russians over night if needed

The U.K. is small fry,, and has had many cuts to its defence policy. Why would you be glad we had nuclear weapons? All it takes is one and the whole world will be gone. Is that something to be glad about?

Why would NATO defeat Russia? What happens if Putin presses the button first.

This is a very strange statement.

MarshaBradyo · 24/02/2022 10:04

@GallopingHighRoad

This is Putin's last opportunity to hang on to the old Russia and he knows it. He will not live forever. Riding horses bare-chested in cold rivers will not turn back the ageing process.

The problem with dictators seizing back control is they create a vacuum behind them.

In a new world order, where China comes to equal the US in financial strength, Russia's long term future lies with Europe as does ours (UK). There is no natural cultural symbiosis between Russia and China. It will take some brave people to come forward and manoeuvre Russia's political will back into Europe, but younger generations will take it there eventually.

The amount of Russian money that has been invested into London real estate (and into French property also) is staggering. This is not all owned by oligarchs close to Putin. Nobody knows the full extent because it mostly comes through layers of offshore trusts and companies in the Caribbean, Mediterranean and Switzerland. There is little sanction that will be brought against real estate, because in practice it does not have the immediacy that blocking $100m in a deposit account does. There will be little appetite to block personal funds for the reason that it alienates those who may hold different views to Putin, who may want a different political system in Russia and who may be the only ones capable of funding that change when his time is up.

Good post
Alondra · 24/02/2022 10:06

@Tigersonvaseline

The EU is extremely strong and robust, it's made up of loads of nations.

The UK definitely has certain strengths but the EU as a strong powerful block really doesn't need us.

If we stayed in and made it stronger it would be by a negligent amount.

I'd love to think the EU is strong and robust. It's not when Putin and America through NATO are in conflict.

The EU is a trade bloc, the biggest in the world...but thats it, there is no EU army. Each country make their own decisions depeding on goverment decisions and what their parliaments allow.

Cornettoninja · 24/02/2022 10:07

Brexit would have been welcomed by the Kremlin, destabilising societies is a well understood tactic of theirs; however we’re not as important as we think we are on the global stage and haven’t been for a very long time. The news may be reporting BJ calling cobra meetings and statements but generally it’s only us paying attention to that. The world isn’t watching our reaction with bated breath.

PerkingFaintly · 24/02/2022 10:11

I never thought I’d give Trump credit but I genuinely don’t think this would have happened if he’d still been President.

Eh? Sorry, that's mince.

Trump has just been praising Putin for declaring the invasion.

Trump praised Putin's justification to invade Ukraine as 'genius' and 'savvy'
www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-ukraine-invasion-justification-genius-savvy-2022-2?r=US&IR=T

That's after Trump said in 2016 he believed Putin's personal word above US intelligence – because it was personally convenient to him.

Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44852812

Trump was fatally susceptible to flattery, and Putin knew how to play him perfectly.

Roundeartheratchriatmas · 24/02/2022 10:14

Not sure if this has been asked but is there anywhere to donate to that will specifically help the people of Ukraine ?

Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase · 24/02/2022 10:15

If you think about it the pandemic has distracted the worlds eyes away from the build up to this. Also if it was a man made virus then who knows what else could be unleashed. It feels like we are living in very strange times.

Malibuismysecrethome · 24/02/2022 10:17

The Defence Minister is a tool and God help us if we have to rely on the likes of him.

Dinosaurs1991 · 24/02/2022 10:18

What Putin is doing is horrendous but selfishly a part of me wishes Ukraine would just give in to his (Yes very unreasonable) demands. It would save potentially millions of lives. It's just not worth it.

bultaoreune · 24/02/2022 10:18

It is so sad and frightening considering that this war can spill out to other regions. China is already observing how west deals with Russia as it has been planning to do the same. I am afraid it might even support Russia. And then what will become of rest of the Asia? Can't they assassinate Putin? I hate anyone being killed but if there are hundreds of people on one hand and one person on the other, surely wouldn't it be better to do so? Where are all the marines and SAS units now?

Cocomarine · 24/02/2022 10:18

@Roundeartheratchriatmas

Not sure if this has been asked but is there anywhere to donate to that will specifically help the people of Ukraine ?
The UN has an unearmarked fund so you can’t guarantee exactly how they’ll use it, but it is specific to Ukraine.

crisisrelief.un.org/t/ukraine

But perhaps @drayday could recommend where she’s donating to the animal rescues? Get your priorities straight! 🙄

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