She’d lose her head if it wasn’t screwed on

[ForgetsHerHead]

That phrase was made for my DD.

She’s 7, school year 3. But loses everything.

She’s dyslexic and has DCD/Dyspraxia. She’s also very hypermobile. Covid restrictions at school have made it worse. She has processing and memory issues.

They empty the trays on a Friday no matter whats in them, so if she’s working on a piece of work on Thursday and puts it in her tray, if she doesn’t go to her tray on a Friday then the tray gets empty and the work is lost.

She’s walked out of school not wearing her skirt or trousers because she’s gone to the toilet, and forgotten to pull them up – sometimes the teacher hasn’t even noticed, the teacher this year is noticing but by the time they go back to the toilets her stuff is gone, so she’s wearing her spares – and has been known to mislay the spares – or her indoor PE kit which in this weather isn’t warm enough. I’ve told her and the teachers told her to try to remember her trousers/skirt but she doesn’t always. Pineafores she will still lose tights or socks.

She never puts anything back. I tell her to put things back in her bag or her room or the hall and she refuses. So either I do it or it gets put down where she is and lost forever more.

Rewards don’t actually help because it’s not helping her remember. School insist she’ll learn after losing enough pieces of work – I don’t always pick up so can’t check her tray. So far this year we’ve lost 4 school reading books, 2 school library books, 2 local library books, an uncountable amount of socks, 2 pairs of shoes (and due to the HM she has insoles so I have to pay to replace the insoles and shoes, which can cost me the best part of £100 all in), and at least 4 school skirts and 1 pair of trousers thats not counting the school jumpers and polo shirts – her school uniform is labelled but it never comes home.

I’ve asked school not to empty her tray, the teachers asked the cleaners not to empty her tray, but they either forget or are told to do them all, as often it gets emptied. School tell her to put things on the teachers desk or put it in her school bag to bring home but she often forgets they’ve asked her or will be so keen to get on with the next thing she’ll say “I’ll put it in my tray and get it out later”, teacher will remind her to empty her tray but again she can forget seconds after she’s been told.

I love her with all my heart but I’m starting to resent her and I really don’t want that. She’s my only child, it’s just me and her at home. School say nag and nag and nag her to put it away, but then she shouts at me telling me to stop asking as she’ll do it soon. If it gets lost its also my fault for not giving her time to do it – even if she’s sat on the sofa for an hour watching tv and I’ve asked her 5 times to put something away, it’s my fault she lost it. I’m an organised person, I’ll try and get her bag packed the night before ready to go, but she refuses to help me, so either I do it or there’s a mad rush in the morning for her to pack it. everything has a place, that to me is logical but DD doesn't seem to get it.

Any tips? Before I go out of my mind. I don’t know what to do.

I see. So is it a short-term memory thing? Or do children with this type of processing issue struggle to form strong long-term memories too?

They seemed to need a lot more practise before things got automated.

Plus in my case I could do maths on papper couldn't hold info to do caluclations in head so mental arthematic is poor - though improved with age - and can't see spellings in head or hold spellings sounded out - so need to write them down often even now.

When I was older my memory was better but also found a good summary diagram was ideal for revision - so maybe images are/were better for me. I have an excellent episodic memory so where I was told things. One of my DC who had poor short term memory also had this and it does help - one doesn't and it is much harder/more work for them to get facts into long term memory but practise practise paratcise does wonders for them.

My children did get good at mental arithmetic because they did mathsfactor every day for over 4 years and had constant daily practise - also found then writing out spellings lots of time was mostly useless as well so need a proper spelling program with lots of build it practise. They also needed more phonics support at home with reading - again practise than other children in their classes did.

Though mine wouldn't have forgotten that quickly they were watching TV . However I found reminders and pre-warnings- in x amount of time y is happening and getting them to repeat back was hugely helpful. In fact in Y2 DS teacher did this with a group of children - including DS - five minutes going over what was happening next day she said it seemed to prime them and they had a better school day - we were already doing this at home and never said but she was a very experienced teacher.

@Calennig

I see. So is it a short-term memory thing? Or do children with this type of processing issue struggle to form strong long-term memories too?

They seemed to need a lot more practise before things got automated.

Plus in my case I could do maths on papper couldn't hold info to do caluclations in head so mental arthematic is poor - though improved with age - and can't see spellings in head or hold spellings sounded out - so need to write them down often even now.

When I was older my memory was better but also found a good summary diagram was ideal for revision - so maybe images are/were better for me. I have an excellent episodic memory so where I was told things. One of my DC who had poor short term memory also had this and it does help - one doesn't and it is much harder/more work for them to get facts into long term memory but practise practise paratcise does wonders for them.

My children did get good at mental arithmetic because they did mathsfactor every day for over 4 years and had constant daily practise - also found then writing out spellings lots of time was mostly useless as well so need a proper spelling program with lots of build it practise. They also needed more phonics support at home with reading - again practise than other children in their classes did.

Though mine wouldn't have forgotten that quickly they were watching TV . However I found reminders and pre-warnings- in x amount of time y is happening and getting them to repeat back was hugely helpful. In fact in Y2 DS teacher did this with a group of children - including DS - five minutes going over what was happening next day she said it seemed to prime them and they had a better school day - we were already doing this at home and never said but she was a very experienced teacher.

@Calennig The spelling and maths thing is so like my DD! She can answer a worksheet of maths problems in 5 minutes, but ask her to do it in her head she can't.

She says she can see the word in her head, but her brain doesn't tell her arm to write or her mouth to say so she writes/says the wrong thing.

She can usually fails her weekly spelling tests. She only has 3 or 4 words to spell, it doesn't matter how we practice, she can sometime spell them correctly with me but by the time it comes to the test she's forgotten - her teachers a star though and no longer tells her what she got an discreetly emails it to me, and DD still gets her star sticker for effort.

We found with DD1 she needed way more repetition to instill things, and keep things simple.

At secondary the rule was 'write it in your planner, no excuses'. We said to never think she would remember messages always write them down.

At college it was 'put a reminder on your phone' along with 'never switch the reminder off until you have actually done the thing successfully'. We got there eventually.

Maths had to be regularly revisited otherwise she forgot. Even at the start of y11 DD could look at me blankly when I mentioned something like percentages. However the more we did, the more quickly things came back (& she passed all her GCSEs). y6 mental maths was a write off though, no way could she recall info in the time permitted.

Having an advocate was godsent for me. If school won't apply for an EHCP you can apply for one yourself. You can ask for assessment of her needs during that process. It helps if you have a diagnosis/docs from school to indicate what she's struggling with. My DC are autistic so have different needs, but for them an OT, SLT and cognitive skills assessment were done. An advocate can help you navigate this process and the obstacles that local authorities often throw in your way (because all assessments and support cost money).

I see. So is it a short-term memory thing? Or do children with this type of processing issue struggle to form strong long-term memories too?

It’s both for my DD, she’s adopted and has extensive early trauma - her memories are very scrambled, talks about things happening with us as a family at an age before she was with us and talks about things in the past as if they were current. She is able to learn with strategies that work for her usually engaging all her senses. She has dyslexia and dyscalcula and is doing well with a specialist tutor. As she gets older, things are getting easier but basic practical things are a huge struggle.

@ForgetsHerHead an organisation called Cerebra have an excellent guide to applying for DLA which will help you outline how much prompting your DD needs over and above age expected support. It also helped me realise just how much time and effort I was putting in to daily living in lots of areas I hadn’t thought about. It’s worth a look and reapplying. We use my DD DLA for her tutor and activities to support her learning.

Weekly spelling were the bane of mine then my children's life. Children's first primary school was a real pain with spelling tests even when they knew the children really had tried.

We moved at the second primary school used nessy for all the kids spellings - school login thing - was better.

At home we used Apple and Pears Sound foundation program used their reading program as well. There still not great spellers but they are much improved with this program. It also had practise at writing words and sentences out with dictation - which over time did mean they panicked less and could do it more.

Mathfactor helped the DC with mental maths - they got real quick and just know answers. Massively helped DS who was very lost with school maths - they'd explain something split up into groups to show it and by time that had happened he'd forgotten everything. Found mathfactor helped - explination worked example then questions. Next day same - then possible next day small next step and if hadn't grapsed it could go back - worked really well for him and also helped his sisters.

Though I think we did make sure they all did some maths every day till secondary school - little and often with all the support we put in. They all got very quick and confident which helps as they hit secondary and were doing more complex maths.

I think it is common for short term memorry to improve with age in childhood but it's trying to avoid the negativity and the falling behind till it does.

I think with DS and myself it will always be a weakness so strategies to help are always going to be useful. My dyspraxia has huge amount of clumsiness which has never gone away- it's worse when tired - so go slow accept it's there and make/demand adjustments. I forget things - so family calander everything on - I use phone reminders and get children to do same - we have an Alexia so use that.

It's finding what works then making sure it's always used.

This needs to be treated as a disability, the school need a checklist of what children need to do at the end of the day stuck up in an obvious place like on the door. Then the teacher should check through it with your daughter. Over time, gradually build up her independence so that she checks the list herself.

Who did the assessment ?

I would start with sen department at school and ask for educational physcholist and ot input and ask for ehcp. If they drag heels then contact the area sen officer directly.

Is there a disabled toilet she can use? It won't solve the dressing issue (does she have sensory needs generally) but it would make it easier to manage finding her possessions.

School sound clueless, and external agencies seem to be utterly swamped even compared to before 2020 which was not great then.

DS1 has dyspraxia, dyslexia and ASD. Warnings do work better for him... in X minutes we will, In Y minutes we will. It's less of a shock to be told. DS2 (no diagnoses, probably dyslexic but we're going nowhere fast on that...) is also highly distractable just by existing. We've got out today purely by "We are leaving in X minutes and you will be leaving the house in whatever state you are in" He does have a sense of getting ready routines, he just needed mentally shoving into gear.

Our morning routine works through the house to the front door, so hair and teeth are last due to the position of the toilet. It significantly reduces distractions by zig-zagging through the house. Commands are "Socks!" "Hair!" "Teeth!" and cutting out the polite waffle helps.

With her profile, there could be some Demand Avoidance involved, I don't know so much about this one though. Worth looking into strategies.

She and you should definitely be getting more help from school...if she has both those diagnoses already at 7 they should be helping with solutions..
Get onto the senco...and say you want to start the ehcp process..
You can start it yourself...if they don't..
Ipsea and sos sen are good resources....get your elbows sharpened and your big pants on as they say... as its an awful process but there can be help available .
My ds dyspraxic as well and I feel your pain....without the hypermobility as well... to complicate things
Raise it with the paediatrics team as well...
Remember the squeaky wheel gets the oil.....

@BogRollBOGOF

Is there a disabled toilet she can use? It won't solve the dressing issue (does she have sensory needs generally) but it would make it easier to manage finding her possessions.

School sound clueless, and external agencies seem to be utterly swamped even compared to before 2020 which was not great then.

DS1 has dyspraxia, dyslexia and ASD. Warnings do work better for him... in X minutes we will, In Y minutes we will. It's less of a shock to be told. DS2 (no diagnoses, probably dyslexic but we're going nowhere fast on that...) is also highly distractable just by existing. We've got out today purely by "We are leaving in X minutes and you will be leaving the house in whatever state you are in" He does have a sense of getting ready routines, he just needed mentally shoving into gear.

Our morning routine works through the house to the front door, so hair and teeth are last due to the position of the toilet. It significantly reduces distractions by zig-zagging through the house. Commands are "Socks!" "Hair!" "Teeth!" and cutting out the polite waffle helps.

With her profile, there could be some Demand Avoidance involved, I don't know so much about this one though. Worth looking into strategies.

@BogRollBOGOF There is a disabled toilet but it's next to the Reception and Nursery classrooms, her classroom is in a mobile the opposite side of school and due to HM she often doesn't feel until last min, so she runs over to the KS2 toilets just inside the main building from where she is. No toilets in the mobile/portacabin.

@averythinline

She and you should definitely be getting more help from school...if she has both those diagnoses already at 7 they should be helping with solutions.. Get onto the senco...and say you want to start the ehcp process.. You can start it yourself...if they don't.. Ipsea and sos sen are good resources....get your elbows sharpened and your big pants on as they say... as its an awful process but there can be help available . My ds dyspraxic as well and I feel your pain....without the hypermobility as well... to complicate things Raise it with the paediatrics team as well... Remember the squeaky wheel gets the oil.....

@averythinline We're not under any other professionals other than paediatric physio and podiatry. Every referral gets bounced back as schools problem or not bad enough for their service.

Appointment made with the class teacher and she's going to try and get the Senco to attend too. Senco was her class teacher last year but wasn't in school most of the year so probably won't know what she's like.

sensooli.com/product/tom-tags-i-know-what-to-expect-school-plus-share-how-i-feel-tag/ This company is really good, we haven't got this visual time table but heard good off others. I think school could do more to check. If they know she forgets certain things it takes a small amount of time to just check even if that is check when comes back from toilet as she will have asked to go and when she gets changed and also checking she has cleared tray, it's about getting her into a routine that she does without thinking about it. I'm dyslexic and was told probably dyspraxic. I set reminders and make lists constantly and am always early for things. I have to put things in same place. My bag and keys placed same place every day. Maybe do visual time table that you keyring to her bags and make a visual list she can tick off on laminated card for end of school. We are quite routine based in our house as have one child who is autistic and one who is dyslexic. You are doing a good job, I was a teacher and was regularly reminding children to pick up things and returning lost jumpers and water bottles so she won't be only one who forget things. I used to do reminders at end of day of what needed to take and then would take box out with any spare jumpers and bottles etc so parents could grab or if named I could give out. The senco should be able so sort something to help. Does she have an iep as lots of bits school can do to help. I have to remind my oldest to put things away in correct place all time and to make sure things laid out for morning but as she gets older it's becoming more of engrained behaviour. I also got the answer of I will do later but we stuck to routine of when get home you need to do list.

To add to post above would they also either just check or let you go into check she has emptied tray after school Friday. I am still surprised teacher is not checking when she knows exactly what your daughter struggles with.

Op💐 You have just described my DD...now 19!
Her inability to.organise herself at primary was amusing and funny...at first..she was called dizzy, 'forgetmenot' by her peers. Sadly apart from identifying that she was dyslexic which affected her ability to.sequence and had poor memory nothing extra was offered.
But...at transition she really struggled and it took much asking for help to finally get a diagnosis..inattentive ADHD..and ASC...sadly to late to support her to gain GCSEs.

If you think that she would benefit from assessment or an EHCP push now.

BTW... she is catching up slowly..and hopes to go to uni...so all is not lost! But it's been painful watching my bright, funny articulate dd being failed by the system. Remember yoh are her best advocate.

@bookwormnerd

sensooli.com/product/tom-tags-i-know-what-to-expect-school-plus-share-how-i-feel-tag/ This company is really good, we haven't got this visual time table but heard good off others. I think school could do more to check. If they know she forgets certain things it takes a small amount of time to just check even if that is check when comes back from toilet as she will have asked to go and when she gets changed and also checking she has cleared tray, it's about getting her into a routine that she does without thinking about it. I'm dyslexic and was told probably dyspraxic. I set reminders and make lists constantly and am always early for things. I have to put things in same place. My bag and keys placed same place every day. Maybe do visual time table that you keyring to her bags and make a visual list she can tick off on laminated card for end of school. We are quite routine based in our house as have one child who is autistic and one who is dyslexic. You are doing a good job, I was a teacher and was regularly reminding children to pick up things and returning lost jumpers and water bottles so she won't be only one who forget things. I used to do reminders at end of day of what needed to take and then would take box out with any spare jumpers and bottles etc so parents could grab or if named I could give out. The senco should be able so sort something to help. Does she have an iep as lots of bits school can do to help. I have to remind my oldest to put things away in correct place all time and to make sure things laid out for morning but as she gets older it's becoming more of engrained behaviour. I also got the answer of I will do later but we stuck to routine of when get home you need to do list.

@bookwormnerd She has a support plan at school that is reviewed and I sign a few times a year, is that the same thing?

@bookwormnerd

To add to post above would they also either just check or let you go into check she has emptied tray after school Friday. I am still surprised teacher is not checking when she knows exactly what your daughter struggles with.

@bookwormnerd I have several times gone into the classroom on a Friday and made her empty her tray into her bag. But I don't always pick up on a Friday, and the people who do have other children from older or younger girls (external ASC/CM type arrangement) so can't get her to check as they have to get so many children.

It is the same thing. I am surprised the teacher wouldn't just make sure she cleared tray on Friday, it would take them such a small amount of time and totally doable. I know when I was teaching if I knew child was struggling with something I would do it automatically, I would see it the same as how I would print sticky labels with learning objectives split up and stuck in to children's books for those who struggled so they could remind themselves of next steps. I would ask them to put steps of how they could help her remember things on support plan. She is only year 3 so still little. I know when I was growing up I needed go see things visually, I found it harder to process things when I was been told. They need to help her with coping strategys as she will not be doing on purpose. She will come up with her own way if doing things as gets older and she will get there. I can remember getting frustrated at myself growing up (didn't get diagnosed until uni) and thinking I was thick. I bet she gets frustrated at herself. I know my daughter feels very frustrated when she is finding it difficult

Hang on…are you saying that she has come back to the classroom from the bathroom with no trousers/tights/shoes on….and no one has noticed either at all or not in good enough time to retrieve them?

What?

@bookwormnerd

It is the same thing. I am surprised the teacher wouldn't just make sure she cleared tray on Friday, it would take them such a small amount of time and totally doable. I know when I was teaching if I knew child was struggling with something I would do it automatically, I would see it the same as how I would print sticky labels with learning objectives split up and stuck in to children's books for those who struggled so they could remind themselves of next steps. I would ask them to put steps of how they could help her remember things on support plan. She is only year 3 so still little. I know when I was growing up I needed go see things visually, I found it harder to process things when I was been told. They need to help her with coping strategys as she will not be doing on purpose. She will come up with her own way if doing things as gets older and she will get there. I can remember getting frustrated at myself growing up (didn't get diagnosed until uni) and thinking I was thick. I bet she gets frustrated at herself. I know my daughter feels very frustrated when she is finding it difficult

@bookwormnerd She does get frustrated, she'll compare herself to her classmates a lot and say they can all do it but I can't why can't I?

She also tries to get out of doing work at school sometimes especially if its a supply teacher, I think so she doesn't get disappointed when she loses it.

@ParalysisByAnalysis

Hang on…are you saying that she has come back to the classroom from the bathroom with no trousers/tights/shoes on….and no one has noticed either at all or not in good enough time to retrieve them?

What?

@ParalysisByAnalysis In Year 2 her teacher often didn't notice at all until I pointed it out when I picked her up. Year 3 has been better with noticing but it can take a bit of time, and when they go back the clothes aren't there. They always check lost property but they never turn up.

The school are failing her. A teacher should not be missing it when child doesn't have all clothes. They know when she's been to toilet or got changed. It seems odd clothes not going to lost property either.

How on Earth can a child return to class with no skirt, tights or trousers and a teacher not notice they’re half dressed - that’s utterly neglectful, especially if they know she tends to undress to use the toilet. I’d honestly raise hell if my child was coming out of school in such an obvious state of undress.

Hi OP, I can’t offer too much in the way of advice but you DD sounds so similar to me growing up. I have dyslexia too.

I found it got harder when I had different teachers for different lessons and was required to move around the school to get to them. That was when my mum got more heavily involved with the SENCO to sort things out. I had cards to give to teachers that explained what I needed from them.

My mum bless her was forever dropping my lunch off at the office for me, or text books or art supplies.

Anyway some hope for the future. I did really very well in GCSEs, alevels uni etc. Am now qualified in a professional career and am currently managing to work full time and have a baby under 1 in nursery.

Most days I forget something but never the things that really matter 😂 everyone gets to where they need to be in good time. Baby has correct clothes on and milk etc.

Socks are still a problem, I have mastered shoes but never remember bloody socks.