She’d lose her head if it wasn’t screwed on

[ForgetsHerHead]

That phrase was made for my DD.

She’s 7, school year 3. But loses everything.

She’s dyslexic and has DCD/Dyspraxia. She’s also very hypermobile. Covid restrictions at school have made it worse. She has processing and memory issues.

They empty the trays on a Friday no matter whats in them, so if she’s working on a piece of work on Thursday and puts it in her tray, if she doesn’t go to her tray on a Friday then the tray gets empty and the work is lost.

She’s walked out of school not wearing her skirt or trousers because she’s gone to the toilet, and forgotten to pull them up – sometimes the teacher hasn’t even noticed, the teacher this year is noticing but by the time they go back to the toilets her stuff is gone, so she’s wearing her spares – and has been known to mislay the spares – or her indoor PE kit which in this weather isn’t warm enough. I’ve told her and the teachers told her to try to remember her trousers/skirt but she doesn’t always. Pineafores she will still lose tights or socks.

She never puts anything back. I tell her to put things back in her bag or her room or the hall and she refuses. So either I do it or it gets put down where she is and lost forever more.

Rewards don’t actually help because it’s not helping her remember. School insist she’ll learn after losing enough pieces of work – I don’t always pick up so can’t check her tray. So far this year we’ve lost 4 school reading books, 2 school library books, 2 local library books, an uncountable amount of socks, 2 pairs of shoes (and due to the HM she has insoles so I have to pay to replace the insoles and shoes, which can cost me the best part of £100 all in), and at least 4 school skirts and 1 pair of trousers thats not counting the school jumpers and polo shirts – her school uniform is labelled but it never comes home.

I’ve asked school not to empty her tray, the teachers asked the cleaners not to empty her tray, but they either forget or are told to do them all, as often it gets emptied. School tell her to put things on the teachers desk or put it in her school bag to bring home but she often forgets they’ve asked her or will be so keen to get on with the next thing she’ll say “I’ll put it in my tray and get it out later”, teacher will remind her to empty her tray but again she can forget seconds after she’s been told.

I love her with all my heart but I’m starting to resent her and I really don’t want that. She’s my only child, it’s just me and her at home. School say nag and nag and nag her to put it away, but then she shouts at me telling me to stop asking as she’ll do it soon. If it gets lost its also my fault for not giving her time to do it – even if she’s sat on the sofa for an hour watching tv and I’ve asked her 5 times to put something away, it’s my fault she lost it. I’m an organised person, I’ll try and get her bag packed the night before ready to go, but she refuses to help me, so either I do it or there’s a mad rush in the morning for her to pack it. everything has a place, that to me is logical but DD doesn't seem to get it.

Any tips? Before I go out of my mind. I don’t know what to do.

@NrlySp

Is her tray top left or top right - and a different color from all the trays around it? With a big ‘do not empty sign’ Sounds like a simple solution but worked well for my DS when he was that age.

I agree with OP - school should be doing more.

What helps with my son is a set time to do things and agreed simple rules about that. Eg come in house, snack, then jobs.
It’s not perfect and sometimes there is resistance but it works. There is a book called Smart but scattered. Maybe that would help your dd. You work through it together

@NrlySp I do think some of it is resistance to school as well, she can usually get herself organised (with a few prompts) for out of school activities, and has lost uniform/equipment but it's less bad.

But she hates school, so I think some of it is deliberate to try and gte out of going to school/to try and be sent home from school.

@MichelleScarn

Pineafores she will still lose tights or socks I was going to suggest a pinafore, at least then she is still clothed? Is she taking her shoes and tights/socks fully off to go to the loo?

@MichelleScarn Yes fully off including shoes

Her refusing when she has been directly asked really isn't on. She can't help forgetting things, but she can help being defiant when asked to carry out a task with you there to help. She doesn't want to do the task and is funding a way out of doing it, that's not the same as when you ask and she forgets. If you were sat on the sofa and had left your phone on the side and she was nearest it, would she not pass it to you if you asked?

I can understand forgetting, but I feel refusing to do something when you are there telling her it has to he done right now isn't the same thing. Deliberately wandering off to play with the cat or her toys when you are asking her for something is rude and I would be punishing her for that specifically (not for forgetting things when you leave her to do it herself). Is there anything you can think of that she would not want taken away/banned for X amount of time?

She needs solid routines, put in place with visual timetables, visual checklists and task boards.
When she comes in from school she needs a visual checklist of things that she has to do before she can watch tv. Coat hung up, shoes on rack, lunch box in kitchen or whatever. And you prompt her to look at the list and carry out the tasks. If she shouts at you then deal with that, but the list is non-negotiable. When she says ‘I’ll do it in a minute’ she means that she cannot process the instruction and cannot work out what needs doing. Every instruction she is given, at home or school, should have a picture or symbol to reinforce what needs doing. Verbal instructions disappear as soon as they are said, the only way she can access that information is by asking for repetition, which feels like nagging to you. Pictures/symbols are permanent and can be checked as many times as needed.

I just feel there's a big difference between "DD do this now"
"I'll do it a min"
-forgets-

Vs
"DD do this now"
"I'll do it a min"
"no, we are doing it now"
And her essentially saying no she isn't.

@SnowFlo

Her refusing when she has been directly asked really isn't on. She can't help forgetting things, but she can help being defiant when asked to carry out a task with you there to help. She doesn't want to do the task and is funding a way out of doing it, that's not the same as when you ask and she forgets. If you were sat on the sofa and had left your phone on the side and she was nearest it, would she not pass it to you if you asked?

I can understand forgetting, but I feel refusing to do something when you are there telling her it has to he done right now isn't the same thing. Deliberately wandering off to play with the cat or her toys when you are asking her for something is rude and I would be punishing her for that specifically (not for forgetting things when you leave her to do it herself). Is there anything you can think of that she would not want taken away/banned for X amount of time?

@SnowFlo I usually have to threaten to take away her out of school activities if she doesn't do it when I ask, as it's literally the only thing and even then she'll sometimes shrug and say she doesn't care.

Taking toys away doesn't help as she will just go play with the cat, or in her own little world. And taking away treat days because we only usually go in school holidays can sometimes be too far away for her to make the connection.

And of course she hates school. She will have little idea of what’s going on, what’s happening next or what she’s expected to do. And she will be constantly getting into trouble for not being able to access the work. I wouldn’t want to go either.

@SnowFlo

I just feel there's a big difference between "DD do this now" "I'll do it a min" -forgets-

Vs
"DD do this now"
"I'll do it a min"
"no, we are doing it now"
And her essentially saying no she isn't.

@SnowFlo And as @Elisheva points out it could also be processing and her struggling with the instructions, so its hard to know the difference.

I will definitely look at visual timetables. She struggles with reading and is better when there's a picture prompt so I can definitely sort out a timetable with pictures for her to follow and see if it helps.

@Elisheva

And of course she hates school. She will have little idea of what’s going on, what’s happening next or what she’s expected to do. And she will be constantly getting into trouble for not being able to access the work. I wouldn’t want to go either.

@Elisheva this is always the feeling I've got. With her activities she either progresses at her own speed (swimming) so it doesn't matter if she doesn't quite get it the first 50 times they've explained it, or it doesn't really matter if she doesn't get it (Brownies) because she's had fun anyway - I've also found with things like Brownies, she won't know what she's done immediately but 2-3 weeks later she'll start telling me "I did this and then we did this"

I just feel really saddened by your post title. If you've "invented a special phrase" for her - though obviously it's a very common saying - she is getting such a strong message that you think she's not good enough. It's so hard for children with special needs to feel good about themselves, a critical label really won't help with that.

Monday after half term contact the school and ask to speak to the senco. Ask them to put her forward for an EHCP. The sooner you do this the better as, as demands increase in upper primary / secondary the more she will struggle without appropriate assistance.

EHCPs take 5 months or so, so if you start now you might get something in place for the next academic year.

Beforehand write the most comprehensive list you can of where she struggles ie anything that a NT child her age can do which she can't.

@BishyBarnyBee

I just feel really saddened by your post title. If you've "invented a special phrase" for her - though obviously it's a very common saying - she is getting such a strong message that you think she's not good enough. It's so hard for children with special needs to feel good about themselves, a critical label really won't help with that.

@BishyBarnyBee I absolutely adore her, with all my heart. I would die for that girl.

I have never told her that I think she's forgetful/silly/anything bad, I do my absolute best to keep it from her. Hence making this post because I am at the end of my tether trying to support her.

@SnowFlo and other posters have been extremely helpful and I have ideas of how to help her including speaking to school.

Please don't think that I want to put her down/make her feel bad, that's not my intention. I was more ranting than anything.

She is a very loved and happy little girl, albeit in her own little world.

Twinkl has loads of visual timetable/task prompt pictures. happylearners.info/ has lots of different style task boards that you can customise. There are also apps that you can download so you can have a list on an iPad which some kids really like.

@Elisheva

Twinkl has loads of visual timetable/task prompt pictures. happylearners.info/ has lots of different style task boards that you can customise. There are also apps that you can download so you can have a list on an iPad which some kids really like.

@Elisheva She has an ipad ExH being disney dad comes in useful sometimes so I can download it onto there thank you!

I get she can't be organised on her own back... but can't she follow a direct command when the shoes are in front of her? She can't physically pick them up, walk to hall, put down, with you where watching her, if she knows the TV is not going back on until she does? Would she really just get angry that you've turned the TV off and refuse to pick the shoes up, because that sounds like she doesn't want to do it.

My DD has processing difficulties, I can ask her to put her shoes on with her shoes sitting in front of her and unless she literally does it right there and then, she’ll not remember what she was asked to do. Eg if she’s watching tv and pauses the programme, she’ll not remember why she was stopping it, if she puts a cup down on the table to fetch a book, she won’t remember I’d asked her to get the book. Also longer sentences are difficult for her to process so “put your shoes on” is ok, go and fetch your shoes from the ball” isnt.

It’s not behavioural, so there’s no point in imposing sanctions - she simply can’t hold the thought in her head. She’s 10 and needs lots of scaffolding at school and at home - I would have thought it was bad behaviour had I not gone through the assessment process with SALT, where she genuinely couldn’t recall what she had been asked.

My DD too would get angry if I turned the tv off, because she wouldn’t be able to remember what she was watching and then would struggle to find it again. And it’s a punishment for something she can’t control. When everything is calm and predictable she manages better, and strict routine helps but executive functioning is a massive challenge for her.

@Jellycatspyjamas

I get she can't be organised on her own back... but can't she follow a direct command when the shoes are in front of her? She can't physically pick them up, walk to hall, put down, with you where watching her, if she knows the TV is not going back on until she does? Would she really just get angry that you've turned the TV off and refuse to pick the shoes up, because that sounds like she doesn't want to do it.

My DD has processing difficulties, I can ask her to put her shoes on with her shoes sitting in front of her and unless she literally does it right there and then, she’ll not remember what she was asked to do. Eg if she’s watching tv and pauses the programme, she’ll not remember why she was stopping it, if she puts a cup down on the table to fetch a book, she won’t remember I’d asked her to get the book. Also longer sentences are difficult for her to process so “put your shoes on” is ok, go and fetch your shoes from the ball” isnt.

It’s not behavioural, so there’s no point in imposing sanctions - she simply can’t hold the thought in her head. She’s 10 and needs lots of scaffolding at school and at home - I would have thought it was bad behaviour had I not gone through the assessment process with SALT, where she genuinely couldn’t recall what she had been asked.

My DD too would get angry if I turned the tv off, because she wouldn’t be able to remember what she was watching and then would struggle to find it again. And it’s a punishment for something she can’t control. When everything is calm and predictable she manages better, and strict routine helps but executive functioning is a massive challenge for her.

@Jellycatspyjamas Thank you, you've confirmed in my head that the approach of "After this has finished we'll put our shoes away" and them reminding her is the best way to go about it.

With the current diagnosis it is really hard for her to actually do it and 'nag nag nag' doesn't really help as she probably struggles to process the steps.

She is getting to the age where these things will effect her general education so the school need to be actively involved and supporting.

Another suggestion is as little speech as possible because sometimes the words just get lost.

Ie to my nt daughter I say ' xxx can you put your shoes on please '
To my an daughter I say ' xxx shoes'

Before anyone even tries to be a about this and its bluntness and rudeness my an daughter completely understands and appreciates this and infact gets agitated and overwhelmed if I use the same language as with nt daughter to the point she self harms badly because she feels frustrated she can't remeber the action amongst all the other words.

Is she on a plan with ta support ?
Has she got outside intervention ?
Is she on dla to help with additional costs ?

Only practical thing I can suggest to try help is visuals... this is going to be hard at first and require support but can help

To start you'll need pecs cards and boards and support of an adult..
So toilet for one have a pec board for toilet with the steps one at a time at one side and then she moves them to completed, like I say this will require alot of support at first, this can progress onto something more discreete like ribbon bracelet.

Loads of downloadables here, things like visual timetables she can tick off. You could make one at home for putting her clothes and shoes back on after she's been to the loo, maybe school would have one for all children on the back of the loo doors?

www.twinkl.co.uk/

www.theottoolbox.com/ has masses of helpful stuff.

My DD too would get angry if I turned the tv off, because she wouldn’t be able to remember what she was watching

I see. So is it a short-term memory thing? Or do children with this type of processing issue struggle to form strong long-term memories too?

I have dyspraxic - I'm highly organised or in complete choas.

Reason I can be organised is my Dmum taught me techniques. One of them constant checking - especially if I don't remember the situation drives DH nuts but works.

So yes to check lists.

Also I'd follow TeenPlusCat advice get a EHCP and write a list of where she struggles.

I'd also write to the school - teacher, head and SENCO all you have said here and ask how they intend to support her going forward.

Routine - checking have everything - everytime leave house - ask who ever is picking her up to check or run though a list - or laminate a home made list to checked off (did that myself for mornings). It took till few years into secondary but they run though mental list themsleves now.

School say nag and nag and nag her to put it away, but then she shouts at me telling me to stop asking as she’ll do it soon.
School sound clueless and I wouldn't shout - I've found going very still and very quiet and firm with "I beg your pardon or what did you say" used to work better - followed by getting them to re-say what I'd asked them to do.

Another thing get her to repeat back the instruction so you both know she knows what it was.

Teaching her now how to get organised will help her thoughout her life.

@Ttcfinalbub

With the current diagnosis it is really hard for her to actually do it and 'nag nag nag' doesn't really help as she probably struggles to process the steps.

She is getting to the age where these things will effect her general education so the school need to be actively involved and supporting.

Another suggestion is as little speech as possible because sometimes the words just get lost.

Ie to my nt daughter I say ' xxx can you put your shoes on please '
To my an daughter I say ' xxx shoes'

Before anyone even tries to be a about this and its bluntness and rudeness my an daughter completely understands and appreciates this and infact gets agitated and overwhelmed if I use the same language as with nt daughter to the point she self harms badly because she feels frustrated she can't remeber the action amongst all the other words.

Is she on a plan with ta support ?
Has she got outside intervention ?
Is she on dla to help with additional costs ?

Only practical thing I can suggest to try help is visuals... this is going to be hard at first and require support but can help

To start you'll need pecs cards and boards and support of an adult..
So toilet for one have a pec board for toilet with the steps one at a time at one side and then she moves them to completed, like I say this will require alot of support at first, this can progress onto something more discreete like ribbon bracelet.

@Ttcfinalbub

Is she on a plan with ta support ?

She's on a school plan but no TA support, there's not even a class TA for Years 2 and above.

Has she got outside intervention ?

Physio for the HM but otherwise nothing, I keep going back to the GP for a referral to either SALT (her speech is delayed) or ENT or anything but the referrals keep getting rejected as apparently it's up to school to deal with it. School referred her to CAMHS but they rejected the referral as apparently she's not bad enough for their intervention, she just keeps getting bounced around and forgotten. It's got worse since she got to KS2/Y3, and I'm terrified for her future.

Is she on dla to help with additional costs ?

Again no, I've applied for it multiple times but been told she hasn't got any additional needs that they wouldn't expect for a 7 year old, apparently all 7YOs need prompts for their routine, insoles aren't an unusual thing for any child etc.

@SnowFlo

My DD too would get angry if I turned the tv off, because she wouldn’t be able to remember what she was watching

I see. So is it a short-term memory thing? Or do children with this type of processing issue struggle to form strong long-term memories too?

@SnowFlo Short term memory issue for us, but she can struggle with her long term memory too. She'll confuse memories so she'll for example think she's been on holiday with me (true) but confuse it with the memory of ExH taking her to the beach and absolutely insists things that happened at the beach day with ExH happened on holiday with me even though we didn't go to the beach.

@Calennig

I have dyspraxic - I'm highly organised or in complete choas.

Reason I can be organised is my Dmum taught me techniques. One of them constant checking - especially if I don't remember the situation drives DH nuts but works.

So yes to check lists.

Also I'd follow TeenPlusCat advice get a EHCP and write a list of where she struggles.

I'd also write to the school - teacher, head and SENCO all you have said here and ask how they intend to support her going forward.

Routine - checking have everything - everytime leave house - ask who ever is picking her up to check or run though a list - or laminate a home made list to checked off (did that myself for mornings). It took till few years into secondary but they run though mental list themsleves now.

School say nag and nag and nag her to put it away, but then she shouts at me telling me to stop asking as she’ll do it soon.
School sound clueless and I wouldn't shout - I've found going very still and very quiet and firm with "I beg your pardon or what did you say" used to work better - followed by getting them to re-say what I'd asked them to do.

Another thing get her to repeat back the instruction so you both know she knows what it was.

Teaching her now how to get organised will help her thoughout her life.

@Calennig Thank you, that's all very helpful. Will definitely have a chat with school.

Op sorry I don't know how to directly reply to your comment sorry I'm a noob, but it sounds to me like your daughter and you are being failed at most corners leaving you to try do all you can without input or help or information which of course is going to be frustrating. Certain conditions aren't black and white and are actually on a scale, that scale being how much a condition effects the person and in what ways. As early intervention as possible is needed for best outcome and it sounds like you're going to have to fight for this. I don't know how to pm but really want to help you access more support so you're welcome to and I can try help in anyway I can. Other then that I strongly suggest an advocate for your daughter and yourself ( I'm not saying you are not fighting for help but sometimes an advocate presence can get more action then not ). The class teacher can't give her as much support as she needs to reach her potential so although a 1 to 1 won't be needed there should be an extra adult in the room. Personally to me I don't think cahms would be the one in these circumstances however she would have more professional input then salt ent and physio, even if it's just to identify her level of need and how it effects her and give a plan and steps

@Ttcfinalbub

Op sorry I don't know how to directly reply to your comment sorry I'm a noob, but it sounds to me like your daughter and you are being failed at most corners leaving you to try do all you can without input or help or information which of course is going to be frustrating. Certain conditions aren't black and white and are actually on a scale, that scale being how much a condition effects the person and in what ways. As early intervention as possible is needed for best outcome and it sounds like you're going to have to fight for this. I don't know how to pm but really want to help you access more support so you're welcome to and I can try help in anyway I can. Other then that I strongly suggest an advocate for your daughter and yourself ( I'm not saying you are not fighting for help but sometimes an advocate presence can get more action then not ). The class teacher can't give her as much support as she needs to reach her potential so although a 1 to 1 won't be needed there should be an extra adult in the room. Personally to me I don't think cahms would be the one in these circumstances however she would have more professional input then salt ent and physio, even if it's just to identify her level of need and how it effects her and give a plan and steps

@Ttcfinalbub Thank you I think your right that I'm turning to the wrong people for support, but it's hard to know where to get support from when no-one seems to know. Like I said I do think there might be a genetic cause suspicions as ExH was very similar but never officially diagnosed with anything, she looks very similar to him and his family and two of his family members have similar diagnosises, if that makes sense? but have no idea how to go about sorting that.