Is there any con to staying with parents for life?

[onlychildhamster]

I was at lunch with my MIL and my SIL over the weekend and the discussion moved to young people living at home. MIL and SIL said that it was ridiculous that young people felt pressured to move out and in the old days, bachelors stayed with their mums for life (not actually too sure about that). From the sounds of it, SIL is aiming to stay with MIL for life. Some people might say that she would change her mind but I am not so sure because of the following factors:

1. She has suspected Aspergers
2. She writes for a living and the income from that is not likely to pay rent.
3. She doesn't meet other people IRL (except family friends and family) so is unlikely to find a partner and get married.
4. MIL is happy with the status quo.

I mean, I don't think its a bad thing. In my home country, people often choose to live with their parents i.e. my father purchased a house with his parents but of course that is a different situation from someone living with their parents without their names on the title deed etc. DH and I lived with MIL for 3 years until we bought our flat.

However, in this country where care home fees are often financed through sale of property etc, what difficulties would that pose if MIL has to go into care (she is only 60 so this is a long way off). SIL is 24. I know they do not sell the house if the child is below 18 but SIL would be way older than that! I have also read that the council may elect to put a lien on the house rather than sell it straight away, but that is not guaranteed right? Also as SIL has 3 other siblings, there may not be much left for SIL to get her own home after the care home fees are deducted and the remainder divided even though its a London house (the 2 other siblings might want an equal share!). Of course this is quite far off and hypothetical and MIL might say that its a minor risk (cos not everyone goes into care!)

What do you all think? Do you think SIL is better off getting her own council flat (assuming she can get one) cos at least she has secure residency in her own right and wouldn't be kicked out of her own home if the house is needed to be sold to pay for care home fees?

Yes they can. But not if they part own it or are married to the person needing care.

I’m surprised at that @FloBot7. I knew personally of someone who’s DF had to go into a care home and they didn’t make his DS move out. When the DF died, his DD wanted to sell to get her share and it was only then the DS had to move (he couldn’t afford to buy his DSis out). This was about ten years ago. The DS ended up living with a friend, but has no secure tenancy or anything.

Where do they expect the other person to go? Many people can’t afford rent/mortgage (probably why they still live at home) and wouldn’t qualify for social housing.

Transferring part of the house into SILs name may not be the best idea if, in 25 years time, she needs to repair the roof or do other such major repairs, and she doesn't have the income to do it. She also needs to understand what's needed in running a house, have a bill or two in her name for ID purposes. When some people get older, they can let things slide a bit with house maintenance so SIL will need to get involved with all this so that she knows, and can take over the reins from MIL as time goes on. This is not always easy for someone ASD who is being looked after by a parent.

I thought you were going to say that your SIL was in her 40s at least. She's only 24 -- lots of people of her age haven't launched and lived independently yet. What makes you think she won't?

And bravo if she wants to write, obviously, but she will have to, like most of us do, find a conventional job to pay the bills.

I'm in a similar situation to you OP, except maybe 20 years ahead and really starting to worry. My brother is 44, still in the same bloody bedroom he grew up in (never moved out) jobless, not claiming benefits and living with my 79 year old mother who does literally everything for him. We both were given inheritance money 10 years ago from a grandparent and he pays for things like football matches, his own clothes, nights out with mates etc. and a few holidays in the med. It wasn't a huge amount and I think it's running out. He pays no board to her and contributes nothing. She won't ask for it. He has no disabilities, no learning or mental health problems, no physical issues but is the most bone idle man alive. I was told 20 years ago not to worry, can't see the future, give him time, if they are happy etc. Now she's getting frail, needs help, but he doesn't know how to look after himself let alone care for her. Hes never had to learn. Im talking even basic cooking, cleaning stuff. He literally will not change a lightbulb. My husband is asked to do it when we go round. He is never even encouraged to do anything about it as "it's a touchy subject" they are in this mad situation and bury their heads in the sand because its easier that way. When I bring it up I'm shot down. My mother's just as much to blame for facilitating it. Surely parents should teach their kids how to live independently? This problem isn't just financially dangerous. I asked my mother what she thinks will happen when shes no longer able to do all this, she said maybe he can live with us (me, dh and 2 kids). She doesn't see it as leeching, taking advantage. She thinks its just how he is. No need to change. Of course that's no going to happen, but it's the expectation that is the problem. If her house is sold for care, he will be homeless. Am I going to see my brother on the streets? Yes I am, I won't become the facilitator. Its heartbreaking.

I get it OP. My bf's friend's brother in his 40s, never left home, has no social life or friends and earns minimum wage. He has very few skills, has never run a home. If his parents house has to be sold or when they are gone he will be in a mess. He has siblings and the house will be sold and shared.

But no one wants to see it. He has got a really good deal and no one wants it to change. I assume the expectation is that my bf's friend has him but he has his own family.

OP has she ACTUALLY got Asperger’s?
Your OP says ‘suspected Asperger’s’ and later… ‘diagnosed with it’.

It’s not just a question of the house you know. Properties need maintenance, she’ll have to pay bills, council tax etc. The biggest issue with life right of residence (where perhaps a step-parents is allowed to live there until they die, no ownership) is a question of who should pay for maintenance.

That’s why it’s better to arrange it so that she has an Individual property, OR enough money for maintainance.

@sanbeiji she was evaluated before and the initial evaluation said suspected aspergers. the family didn't go for a second opinion. on mumsnet, they told me that the fact it was even mentioned meant it was very likely she had aspergers.

I don't actually know the full details as this was before I married DH but know aspergers was discussed/mentioned at some stage. The problem is the family are totally uninterested in getting additional help or support.

Do you all think her buying a BTL property in a cheap area in the north would be a terrible idea? Assuming she can save up money while living at home and maybe we can help her out as well, she would have a place to live at if the worst happens? And the mortgage would be covered by the rent.

The thing is that someone has to manage the BTL. Is she able to travel independently? Can she manage finances?

Given some of your posts you are in a situation where you benefit from wonderful community support. You need to speak to people like Jewish care for some advice and point your MIL to them too to see what they advise that’s their job. You can also speak to Langdon. I wouldn’t worry too much.

@seekinglondonlife travel as in do you need a car? She has taken the train by herself before..not sure about managing finances but most people haven't managed finances until they actually had to? Right now in a way there has never been a need for her to work in the formal economy; but perhaps this would be an incentive..it's why she thinks her hobby is good enough.

@Trolleedollee Jewish care disability services are for people with physical disability and visual impairment..I don't hold out much hope for Jewish community services; after all it was her extremely religious Jewish school that excluded her even though they knew she had problems...

This is probably a harsh description but when I was watching inventing Anna on Netflix, there were times when I thought oh she sounds like my SIL without the accent! Oh and the high spending habits obviously. Its just a TV show but I don't think the TV producers meant for Anna to look like she has ASD, just someone who is not very self aware with her head in the clouds.. which is why I don't think her ASD is very severe (though of course I am no doctor) and hence not sure about how much disability support she would qualify for.

@Skeam She doesn't want to get a job, no one is asking her to get a job. She feels her writing is her job. She has no GCSEs, though of course you don't necessarily need GCSEs to get a job. We are in London, if you don't have a job that pays at least minimum wage, you can't pay rent. She also doesn't talk IRL to anyone other than her family and some (older) family friends, not likely to meet anyone so its not likely she can move in with a partner. Her sisters moved out by going to Israel, the israeli government provides some help with the initial move but she isn't interested in that and frankly israel isn't an easy place to live in, you need a conventional job to continue to stay (and even then it is not easy). DH and I stayed with MIL in our 20s too but we did have jobs and were able to save up properly and buy our own place. Or even if we didn't buy, we could have rented.

Many people get jobs because they probably couldn't live without a job, but she is managing fine without one. She wouldn't be managing fine if she had to move out though!

@only I have a dc with ASD, who unfortunately isn't likely to be able to work even part time, so I will have to apply for benefits for them as soon as they leave home. I would worry that your MIL not pursuing a diagnosis (although I assume now that as she is 24 she would need to do it) is going to bar access to benefits she might be entitled to. As morbid as it sounds, if your MIL died tomorrow are you happy to financially support your SIL indefinitely? Are they not worried about her NI contributions?

[quote onlychildhamster]@sanbeiji she was evaluated before and the initial evaluation said suspected aspergers. the family didn't go for a second opinion. on mumsnet, they told me that the fact it was even mentioned meant it was very likely she had aspergers.

I don't actually know the full details as this was before I married DH but know aspergers was discussed/mentioned at some stage. The problem is the family are totally uninterested in getting additional help or support.[/quote]
That’s not true. It depends on the type of ‘evaluation’. More likely if it’s a female as women are woefully under diagnoses but still not confirmed.

Unfortunately even with a diagnosis there’s nothing you can do as getting disability allowance, support etc involves a lot of paperwork and evidence. You don’t just get given things.

And there’s no evidence that she CAN’T work. If her mother is enabling her ASD might not be the main relevant point.

Two options:

• Get her a cheap BTL, pay someone to manage it.

This will be very expensive. The rules for LL’s are getting stricter by the day. You not only need cash if something breaks but if the BTL is ‘cheap’ there’s a reason. You’re probably not going to have a steady stream of people wanting to live there if they had a choice.

• Let her fail.

This sounds harsh but you can’t help someone who doesn’t WANT to be helped. Ensure that she has rights to the house, when MIL passes she will at least have the cash. If you can ease her into independent adult life and see how she copes. She might seek help if forced to.

Also of course every person with ASD is different, but they can be very logical. Even if the logic isn’t the same as an NT person , it’s still logic.

Her current logic is - she has enough to live on, wants to write. What’s the problem.
Why would she get a job when she doesn’t need to? Why should she talk to anyone when she doesn’t need to? She’s incapable of forward projection.

@sanbeiji Many normal people have problems with forward projection too! It isn't uncommon. The problem, I think, is that she saw that her dad didn't work for most of his children's lives and is fine. Of course as she is young she didn't realize that it was very different for him as :
(a) he managed to buy his first flat with his wife when he was still working in the 1990s.
(b) he had a wife who continued to pay the mortgage
(c) He had a wife who was nice enough to give him a share of the house (in cash) when they divorced (and property prices had grown)
(d) He had parents who let him move back rent free.

Yes my SIL would definitely have money from the sale of the house even after possible care fees. But whether that is enough in year 2XXX to live on, i have no idea. It could be very different then. I mean in the past food banks were unheard of but now apparently even people with jobs go to food banks.

Have you been to Italy?! Virtually every person under the age of 35, nay, 40, lives with their parents.

This young woman is 24. There are a good few years for her to change, decide to work, even meet someone or some friends. And the mil is 60! I think the OP is somewhat jumping the gun.

I know time passes quickly, but revisiting the situation in ten years’ time would be sensible. Writing off (excuse pun) the writer 24-year-old who may/may not have Asperger’s and is currently quite happy with her mum seems questionable…

Tbh if I wasn't living with DP I'd be quite happy living with my mum however old I am. We get on really well, and when I lived there it was more like a flatmate scenario, so sharing the bills, the housework etc.

I know a couple of people my age (30s) who still live with their parents - but they live like teenagers, doing nothing, festering in their bedrooms when not at work .. I don't know how their parents allow that shit.

But I don't see how it's okay to houseshare with a friend, but then not with a parent. It's a weird Western attitude.

[quote onlychildhamster]@sanbeiji Many normal people have problems with forward projection too! It isn't uncommon. The problem, I think, is that she saw that her dad didn't work for most of his children's lives and is fine. Of course as she is young she didn't realize that it was very different for him as :
(a) he managed to buy his first flat with his wife when he was still working in the 1990s.
(b) he had a wife who continued to pay the mortgage
(c) He had a wife who was nice enough to give him a share of the house (in cash) when they divorced (and property prices had grown)
(d) He had parents who let him move back rent free.

Yes my SIL would definitely have money from the sale of the house even after possible care fees. But whether that is enough in year 2XXX to live on, i have no idea. It could be very different then. I mean in the past food banks were unheard of but now apparently even people with jobs go to food banks.[/quote]
Spiralling rent and utility costs are the reason for food bank usage.
Everything else is cheaper now. Food, consumer goods.

Your SIL will have enough to buy her own property outright. That means she can live on very little. She should be able to get a job that pays at least £500 a month.

A guaranteed stream of passive income is far more difficult. If it was easy everyone would do it.

Also OP how much seed money do you have? 50K? 200K?

I know a 49 year old who is still living with his parents in childhood home.

@sanbeiji buy her own property outright? I mean yes definitely, if she was the only beneficiary and MIL gave everything to her, which is possible but not guaranteed.

I wasn't actually going to give her the whole deposit, but encourage her to get a job (even part time), save up her earnings for a deposit and top up maybe 20-30k. She could buy a property and rent it out. I don't think its a good idea for her to move to the north by herself so she can stay at home. But this way it means she doesn't really need to hold down a job for very long..

I think historically your mil is correct. One of my Aunties never got married as her fiancee was killed in WW2. She lived with her parents and went out to work too. When my Grandparents became old she gave up her job to look after them. Her 4 siblings each paid her a little money. The house was rented and after Grandparents both died she got another job and took over rent.

My bil is 58 and never been in a relationship and still lives at home with mil. He pays hardly any keep money and hoards money up into ISA's. Mil says house is in will to share between both her son's. We suspect bil has enough to buy DH out. Dad thing is mil in mid 80's now and bil does absolutely nothing to help her. She waits on him hand and foot.