How do people who are not online navigate life?

[Featuredcreature]

Honestly it really baffles me, life these days especially in covid times is complicated and intricate. I kind of had a taste of this by being very depressed, for a long time I just didn't deal with anything, ignored bills and just got through each day by the skin of my teeth.

I'm literate (supposedly) fairly used to computers and online life and its a mare. I am recovering slowly, sorting things out, although I'm skint i am able to get by.

How do people who are not literate, nevermind online literate navigate all this crap? I spent a bit of time on jsa and was sent on many pointless courses, obviously they were tedious as fuck. I met many lovely people who were so vulnerable. I'm not sure if the cessation of these (EU funded, alas gone) courses is a good thing or not. I am glad that that frankly inadequate and sometimes fucking sleazy and odd course leaders are out of a gravy train, but the people involved are probably now extremely isolated and forgotten.

What happens to those people now?

I think there's a certain amount of misunderstanding when it comes to people who are not very good with computers. They're not necessarily vulnerable, lazy, or stupid.
If they haven't been part of your education or work, there's a distinct lack of resources to learn from the basics upwards.
It's actually very anxiety inducing for some.
It's a horrible thing to be more and more pushed into a corner of a world you don't understand or trust as more and more goes online.

I live in a small isolated rural community with lots of older people I seem to be the go to person around here for ordering things that can not be brought locally. For small items I just order and then the give me the money when it arrives. For larger items eg fridges I use their own card and it is delivered to their address with their contact number. I get all the delivery emails and pass on the info. I draw the line about dealing with banking and insurance. I am not getting involved with that.

My in-laws are in their seventies and have no internet access and MIL doesn't even have a mobile phone. Due to health reasons, neither of them drive anymore.

They manage fine but all their children live in the same town (mainly a few streets away) and they have family popping over for various reasons everyday.

They also live very close to the supermarket, post office and GP surgery and can get around on foot or mobility scooter.

Plus we're dealing with large numbers of people who still don't get good Internet or mobile reception or cannot afford it.

Actually, thinking about it, a huge factor is trust. We're bombarded by tales of scams etc on the Internet, and if people don't really understand it all, it can be terrifying because they don't have the knowledge to know if they're safe or not.
It can be a much deeper and more complex reluctance than people who have been born into a world of the Internet realise.

My parents have limited technology use. My Dad seems uninterested but I think it’s related to his general literary issues, he is an avid reader but finds writing hardwork. I’m pretty sure he is dyslexic. My Mum manages online shopping but not food shopping but I suspect that’s lack of effort. She has a degenerative neurological condition which is effecting her cognitive function so I think she is beyond learning something new.

I know a man that orders online food shopping for elderly parents that live hundreds of miles away. They had someone that would help them but they were not trust worthy. He rings every week to get the shopping list. Most other things he can do online for them too. But he was very concerned during lockdown when deliveries were much hard to get.

My parents don't do online. They are in their 70s. It only really works because they use my email for things that insist on one like hotel bookings. They don't have online banking and do all their shopping from actual shops.

My parents (early 70s) don’t have internet access and refuse to get it - they’d be capable but I think it is a trust thing and they see the cost as necessary. They seem to manage fine using the phone, but occasionally call me to look something up for them, and have used my email address before.

They don’t do a huge amount other than countryside walks/ my Mum knits and read a lot/ get a daily paper. They do miss out on regular photos of their grandchildren and when we didn’t see them for 18 months because of covid it would have been much better to video call them, but they are just not interested.

My DM has no on line access. She gets me and my DB to do everything on line for her. He does her banking and bills and I do any ordering of items she wants or looking up services.

My mum does everything online and is very IT literate. But her physical difficulties are making using a laptop harder for her and the voice recognition software does not work for her accent.
The current IT model assumes everyone is either able-bodied or so disabled they get specialist technology. But a lot of people are in between. They now have a landline with large buttons and higher volume control so have zero problems using a phone. But IT hasn't really adapted to the needs of people getting older.

I am trying to get another relative to transfer their bank account to First Direct as they do great telephone banking with good customer service. This relative still visits the bank branch for everything which is about 5 miles away.

Trust is a good point - my DM (60) is computer literate enough to manage to shop online, but she doesn't trust that her card won't be scammed. So she has me do it on mine

She nearly had a fit when we went to London because we all used contact less to swipe on and off buses/tubes/boats - she wanted to find a counter to buy a paper ticket. In the end we convinced her and she marvelled at the ease of it.

She gets infuriated when places don't take cash.

I have a friend in her fifties who does not trust contactless and refuses to have a card with this option on it.

You might be surprised at just how many of the older generation do have smart phones and use online services. They are the savvy ones who got with the times.
There will be ,and always has been , people who are unable to deal with normal every day issues, those people probably have to rely on family or friends to help them

@ChiefInspectorParker

I agree that there are some people who get ‘left behind’ because of their inability to be online or use technology, or because of literacy issues and yes, those people need plenty of support. They are probably people who are quite vulnerable in general, so if they lack that support it’s very hard for them.

However there are people who simply refuse to engage, which is ridiculous when you think how long the internet has been around. People who don’t use email, for example. It’s ridiculous and even if they’re 80 now, that means they’ve been refusing to engage since they were in their early fifties!

That is not true. Thirty years ago I did not use email. I didn't refuse to engage in it, but everyone I knew who used email did so in a work capacity. I did not have an office job and never used email at work. No one wanted to send me emails about anything. I think people forget that it is relatively recently that most people used IT a lot outside of work environments. Most older people I know started using IT to get kids of grandchildren sent online.

My aunt is only 60, still working etc but still pays her council tax every month by cheque/cash - she even goes down to the council offices to pay it in rather than posting it. Its not just the elderly that aren't online.

@Nightlystroll

Brexit has fucked poor people over even more than people know. But you thought the EU funded courses were useless and a gravy train. So if they're no longer being held, then surely that's a positive thing about Brexit. And the funding for these waste of time courses might have come via the EU but that EU money came from the UK initially.

Thank you. People who whine about "Britain losing EU funding" seem unable to grasp that this was UK money which was sent to Brussels, some of which came back with an EU flag on it. It was always British funding.

@debwong except that EU money that came from Britain is no longer be used to support the poor.

You can only book appointments for my doctors online. They don’t take them on the phone or in person. Someone on our fence book group said their elderly father who doesn’t have the internet was sent away when he went down their to book one. That’s progress for u

My elderly parents don’t use the internet. I handle their banking and bills, if they need to buy anything online I have to show them the products on my laptop and purchase whatever they want. I also handle online insurance and car tax etc. They drive to the supermarket once a week. They don’t have smartphones, just basic phones. This was not a problem until the pandemic when I had to photograph my Dad’s privates with my iPhone and text it to the GP so he could get an appointment.

I think we all forget how NEW the internet is - everyday use and emails for everything only started about 15 years ago!

Im 65 now but am computer literate because ive always worked in an office and my DH worked in computers so we had one at home even when i was a SAHM for a few years.

I have friends who never worked in an office environment and in their 50s have limited ability on a computer.

I wouldnt expect many people over 70 to be very good on-line as they have had such limited experience of this in life.

I do struggle with some things on-line and have to get my kids to help as i am now getting ‘old’ myself 🤣🤣🤣

It's certainly true that many essential, official tasks can now only be done online.
And there are people who, for whatever reason, won't use the internet.
And there are people who, for whatever reason, can't use he internet.
PPs have already given lots of examples of people in both categories.
I am going to need to replace my old laptop soon with something else, (I pad?, Another laptop? Just not sure what yet).
And then I had the thought - what if I couldn't afford to? (I can, fortunately).
So it's not just a matter of ability when it comes to being online, surely it can be a matter of affordability as well?
Not everyone can afford a smartphone or a PC/laptop/tablet, etc.
Not just the initial outlay, but the running costs too.
We cannot now be ignorant about the fact that there are many, many people living in poverty.

I work in system design, and IMO a huge issue is that many developers are systems geeks who get overexcited in overdelivering the spec, forgetting that the end user is 99% of the time just trying to do a task someone else has made them do that they want to do as simply as possible.

They don't want hints, suggestions, tours etc. They want to come in, do the task and get out.

We had no end of issues with our developers in this regard. Give them an instruction and they'd bounce off the walls suggesting add on features that nobody needed. Not enough developers use graphic interface designers to make design intuitive and functional.