Has anyone actually ever LTB because a mumsnet thread told them to?

[Kittromney]

Another thread about proposal ultimatums made me think of this.

I started a thread on AIBU a few years ago complaining that my lovely bf flat out refused to marry me after 8 years together saying that he was 'not ready' or 'too young'. The unanimous response was LTB. Although I had already know deep down that I had to LTB for about 2 years at that point, I genuinely feel that it was that thread that was the final straw that actually made me do it. It took me another year, and I was miserable after I broke up, but I've gone back to it many times to remind myself that I was doing the right thing. A lot of it was confirmation bias of course, I kind of needed strangers on the internet to ratify what I already knew. When I showed the thread to my then partner, he was convinced that everyone was actually agreeing with him! But his conclusion was the same as mine - that we should move on, sad as that might be, as we wanted different things.

It also surprises me how spot on the mumsnetters were at predicting what would happen next! I took the leap and started an overseas posting at work (something that my ex was flat out against), made amazing friends, had loads of flings. I met my new partner a few months later. Everything felt uncomplicated. A month ago, 2.5 years into the relationship, I told him I'd like to get married. There was no fuss as we'd been discussing it all along like grownups, without him being 'freaked out' or 'scared off'. We now have a date set for August.

I read some threads where the only logical option for the OP is to LTB and it feels quite B&W, such as my situation where we were young, had no kids and wanted completely different things. I always wonder if any of these women do leave, or if they stay on in misery. Or am I the only one who was actually dumb enough to LTB because mumsnet said so?

The problem is, generally on a thread from a person complaining about their partner, there are loads of posters who tell them to LTB no matter what.
I've been told to leave DH when he had a traumatic incident which lead to depression and PTSD. Obviously I didn't, I supported him through it and he's made fantastic progress and is still a wonderful, loving husband and father.

I've seen people telling others to LTB because hes a bad cook. I mean...sometimes it's ridiculous.

I've always wondered how many do LTB. It seems like such an easy and obvious response but in a lot of cases the reality is far from easy. So many women are stuck because they have children to house and are worried about how they can afford it.

I did. Twice.

First one was many years ago when I'd only just discovered MN and had only got my family's warped, men pleasing life guidance to go on.

I was surprised at the overwhelming response and absolutely blown away because so many posters told me exactly how things would happen next. I read the posts thinking, no, they don't know him. Their ex have done that but how do they know mine will..?

They were, collectively, right on every count.

Second time was only a couple of years ago. I knew they were right too but, again, had lots of people irl making excuses for him and its hard to act decisively when everyone is telling you you're wrong.

Obviously, some people massively project and say LTB for absolutely anything but I think most people are able to discern between posters with experience and objective, sensible guidance and those who just read "my boyfriend..." or "my husband..." and cry LTB as an battle cry against all men.

There was a thread by MNHQ a little while ago which afaik reckoned MN had helped thousands of women and their kids to leave abusive relationships.

I think the point is that it's not the acronym 'LTB' which does it - it's the understanding responses, and the practical guidance. I rarely participate in those threads as (mercifully) I have no experience - but there are so many who do, who give good advice. Those people don't make it sound like an easy option, but they do make it clear it's often a necessary one.

Yes. Not mumsnet but another parenting forum years ago

It took a couple of years to get through to me that he was abusive and his behavior unacceptable. 15 years ago now - best thing I ever did and now I have the happiest relationship and best partner ever (9 years this year)

forums in general did a lot to teach me red flags and what I would never accept again - and the good things to look out for

I did but not immediately.

There was a lot of crappy stuff happening in that relationship and even the things that seemed innoccuous at the time, looking back were red flags. MN (and MSE at the time) picked up on this whereas I did not.

Reading more on MN, learning about emotional abuse, learning how healthy relationships looked, this all helped me to come to a decision to leave. MN was a big part of it. I think I joined MN when my DS1 was 3 months old (I remember because I looked up weaning info), started thinking seriously about leaving six months later, made a definite decision to leave when he was 10 months old and it took me 3 months to find somewhere to leave to. So he was 13 months which means in 10 months from joining MN I had LTB. Can't remember when I got my first LTB on MN. I think when I posted about his sudden decision to give up alcohol and people were like wait wait wait, let's dial this back a bit. First LTB anywhere was when I was pregnant and completely came out of the blue and shocked me that people would see my relationship that way.

Me! I left my idiot ex-partner and got with my female best friend instead!

Me. I was being abused and was very confused. I had so much support. Five years down the line I and my (adult) children are safe and happy.

@EishetChayil

Me! I left my idiot ex-partner and got with my female best friend instead!

Now that is a lovely story!

I didn't LTB but MN correctly told me my former relationship was doomed before I knew. I tried to argue it but when AnyFucker and the whole of MN are saying that (in retrospect ver obvious things) are red flags.... yeah. It did somewhat soften it when we broke up a short time later.

If MN told me to LTB I would take it seriously, there's a WEALTH of experience on here coming from people's hearts as well. You'll be told things here I bet many MNers have hardly told their best friends, thanks to anonymity.

The opposite happened for me - I wrote thread after thread about then DH's behaviour and I did not LTB. Instead I wasted 10 more years with him and then left. I wish I had listened at the time as when I revisited the threads what was going on was plain to see.

I think MNers collectively have extremely high standards for relationships and that is a very good thing. Sometimes that looks like "saying LTB to everything".

The thing is, if someone has a DH who is a bad cook (to take one example) or plays video games (mine, who is lovely) and someone on MN says OMG I couldn't cope with a video gaming/bad cook DH, LTB, but you know that 100% it's not a problem, then you'll just laugh it off. But if your husband plays video games excessively to the point they neglect all other responsibilities, or the bad cooking is something they are doing out of laziness and it DOES bother you, then you might look at that LTB and think "Somebody else thinks this is a problem too, it's not just me."

Society and culture constantly give us messages about staying together, overlooking faults, "fixing" men, good men are rare so be grateful if yours has any good points, marriage breakdown being a terrible, terrible thing and a failure and never positive, men "needing" sex, it's an incredibly radical thing to say "LTB" over "every little thing". If it makes someone think well actually maybe I don't need to put up with this then that's great IMO.

Nobody has ever left a loving, happy and healthy relationship because Mumsnet "told them to"

People don't leave a safe, caring, loving, healthy relationship because a random on the internet said LTB.

People who are already really unhappy may feel after posting that what they thought was impossible actually is possible and they don't have to be stuck feeling miserable or scared or lonely or unloved.

Posters like to claim that others scream ltb over things like leaving crumbs in the butter but it's simply not true.

I have suffered (low level) abuse in both my significant relationships. I definitely took on board MN advice when considering leaving XH - but it was more the "what do you get out of this relationship?" type questions, and the practical support such as advice about claiming tax credits etc that swung it, not the glib LTB ones.

With XDP it was more tricky because I already knew that others wouldn't put up with a lot of the crap I did if I shared the details on here, so I almost didn't want to spell it out because I knew I'd get a lot of LTBs! And I really didn't want to. I know if I didn't come on MN I would not have had the strength to believe that I deserve better tbh.

Posters like to claim that others scream ltb over things like leaving crumbs in the butter but it's simply not true.

Exactly - when you see the one lone voice on a thread about abuse suggesting counselling etc or saying "urgh men, hey?!" you just know they don't understand the dynamics at play here. Those of us who have lived it and read about it and spent many years trying to understand it can see the very subtle beginnings of abuse even before the OP realises what it is.

Not from one thread but MN made me realise that my ExH was abusive and I did eventually leave him.

YY, me too. Again, not an individual thread but a gradual, growing consensus that it wasn't right for me.

I do see why people sometimes think LTB is a knee-jerk response and wonder why MN old hands are so cynical about relationships. But I think of it as a really necessary counterbalance to the standard advice you get outside MN. There is a huge pressure on women to be accommodating, to hand out endless chances, to put up with shit. I'm sure that's not true for every single woman out there, but for many, it is.

I also think that the fact MNers are strangers, and are just seeing the OP's side of things, is also really valuable. IME, in real life family members and friends often slip into automatically reinforcing the relationship rather than criticising it, or pushing a couple to stay together.

For example, I realised (rather stupidly slowly) that my parents brought me up to believe divorcing, or parents of children separating, was something other people did. I have twice got to a point where I thought a serious relationship wasn't salvageable. Both times, my parents' response to the news was to absolutely insist I was wrong, and not only wrong but probably mentally disturbed to even think such a thing. My dad wrote me long letters, threatening all sorts, and full of dire warnings about how I would, single-handedly, ruin my child's life if I left my relationship.

In theory, my family would agree that there are acceptable reasons to LTB, including things like physical violence or financial abuse. In practice, they simply refuse to see such things and deny that they are happening. That's where MN becomes so valuable, because posters with experience spot patterns and can generally see when someone is describing something that looks like a bad relationship.

When I did LTB, btw, it was absolutely the right choice - and my family and some of my friends still, years on, don't believe that's true. I really think if I hadn't had MN making me see that I could expect better of a relationship, I would have stayed.

I think MNers collectively have extremely high standards for relationships and that is a very good thing. Sometimes that looks like "saying LTB to everything".

I think you've said this perfectly. People get such a bad rap on here for 'jumping to LTB', 'sucking out the romance', being 'anonymous keyboard warriors'. But there are always patterns of abuse that jump out in these threads.

I've been reading mumsnet for a long, long time. Since I was in my early 20's. I stumbled across it bored at work and have been hooked ever since. And it has hugely raised the standards of what I will tolerate in a relationship. It has made me see how ingrained the patriarchy really is in every aspect of life. It makes me seemingly rigid, inflexible, uncompromising, but it hasn't been to my detriment at all. I now have much heavier, more equal relationships than I ever thought possible, given my upbringing and culture.

YY @Kittromney.

Also, given a lot of MNers who say LTB clearly are in happy, or mostly happy, relationships of their own, I think MN is a really reassuring space. It gives the lie to all of those 'all men watch porn/men don't see dirt/every marriage involves compromise' lines IMO.

(I know marriages do involve compromise, but I think this line is often unthinkingly trotted out to pressure women into compromising on everything.)

Not Ltb from a thread that I started, but I lurked on GettingBigger’s threads about her coercive partner and recognised an awful lot of similarities.

Before Mumsnet I was oblivious to so many things that are now obvious red flags. This forum should be prescribed by the NHS!

@Kittromney

I think MNers collectively have extremely high standards for relationships and that is a very good thing. Sometimes that looks like "saying LTB to everything".

I think you've said this perfectly. People get such a bad rap on here for 'jumping to LTB', 'sucking out the romance', being 'anonymous keyboard warriors'. But there are always patterns of abuse that jump out in these threads.

I've been reading mumsnet for a long, long time. Since I was in my early 20's. I stumbled across it bored at work and have been hooked ever since. And it has hugely raised the standards of what I will tolerate in a relationship. It has made me see how ingrained the patriarchy really is in every aspect of life. It makes me seemingly rigid, inflexible, uncompromising, but it hasn't been to my detriment at all. I now have much heavier, more equal relationships than I ever thought possible, given my upbringing and culture.

I could have written this. The "MN chorus" has been in my head so many times when a man is being weird or shit, it's so helpful and I wish all girls grew up with these ideas about STANDARDS.

@BertieBotts

I think MNers collectively have extremely high standards for relationships and that is a very good thing. Sometimes that looks like "saying LTB to everything".

The thing is, if someone has a DH who is a bad cook (to take one example) or plays video games (mine, who is lovely) and someone on MN says OMG I couldn't cope with a video gaming/bad cook DH, LTB, but you know that 100% it's not a problem, then you'll just laugh it off. But if your husband plays video games excessively to the point they neglect all other responsibilities, or the bad cooking is something they are doing out of laziness and it DOES bother you, then you might look at that LTB and think "Somebody else thinks this is a problem too, it's not just me."

Society and culture constantly give us messages about staying together, overlooking faults, "fixing" men, good men are rare so be grateful if yours has any good points, marriage breakdown being a terrible, terrible thing and a failure and never positive, men "needing" sex, it's an incredibly radical thing to say "LTB" over "every little thing". If it makes someone think well actually maybe I don't need to put up with this then that's great IMO.

THIS. We need higher standards - Not so we all have to live by them, But so we can if we need to

Not LTB but various threads have given me insight into unhealthy relationship dynamics. Reading those has helped me address some things with OH and also to support a friend to leave her abusive marriage.

It's also helped me recognise red flags in other types of relationships. I'm more assertive in friendships and at work as a result.

@SarahAndQuack

YY *@Kittromney*.

Also, given a lot of MNers who say LTB clearly are in happy, or mostly happy, relationships of their own, I think MN is a really reassuring space. It gives the lie to all of those 'all men watch porn/men don't see dirt/every marriage involves compromise' lines IMO.

(I know marriages do involve compromise, but I think this line is often unthinkingly trotted out to pressure women into compromising on everything.)

Yes. The reality is that 'compromise' actually means put him first, put yourself last, accept things that make you deeply unhappy.

Why is it such a radical idea that a relationship should make you happy, not miserable?

There's a reason women are conditioned to have low standards.

@RoyKentsChestHair

Posters like to claim that others scream ltb over things like leaving crumbs in the butter but it's simply not true.

Exactly - when you see the one lone voice on a thread about abuse suggesting counselling etc or saying "urgh men, hey?!" you just know they don't understand the dynamics at play here. Those of us who have lived it and read about it and spent many years trying to understand it can see the very subtle beginnings of abuse even before the OP realises what it is.

This. And those who say "just move on". Easier said than done from some relationships.

When I first discovered MN I saw some answers to posters saying that what they were experiencing was emotional abuse. That was a lightbulb moment for me. I did post the odd general question but never posted about my actual experiences because (a) he made me think he could see everything I was doing on the internet and (b) I knew that if it was that bad, it was bad and I needed to stick my head in the sand for a bit longer.

I did change my behaviour though, I walked away when he started, I stood up for myself a bit more. All that was a red rag to a bull and his behaviour worsened but thankfully he's gone on to his next victim now so I'm free and happier than I've ever been.

MN gets all manner of naysayers dissing it but the support in the relationship boards is a great resource for a lot of people.

Yes! Twice!

My marriage was over for about 6 years before I actually ended it, but what I didn't clock onto was that I was being gaslighted, mentally abused etc. It took me quite a while to see this, but because of others experiences here, things started to become clearer. I reckon I'd still be the same old doormat otherwise, as it was just how life was.

Then some years later I started a new relationship and some time into that I didn't feel OK about some things. I didn't know if I was over compensating on red flags as I knew I was on alert level 1 for anything off. I just needed someone to speak to me who had been there, to tell me (once again) that my fears were real and it really wasn't OK.

It is true that there is such a vast collection of knowledge here. Someone sadly has experienced what a new poster is going through. But also, that same poster has been through the mill and can see there is a light at the end for the poster who is now in the same situation.

Everyone say the ltb posts are ridiculous, but from what I have seen, it is pretty sage advise the vast majority of the time. What does annoy me though, is 5 mins after someone giving the advise, someone else will come along and ask if she/he has ltb yet. No, they won't have because it's not as straight forward as that.... But I'll take bets that the information is being processed so that a poster can make an informed decision somewhere down the road. Like me, 6 years on that road. But I took all the advise and applied it as and when I was able.

Some people won't touch relationships forum with a barge pole. For this reason. But to me, it's a very different board with the most amazing support, and very much a case of sisterhood. (brotherhood too in some cases).