Teachers' comments at parent's eve

[TwentinQuarantino]

Had a virtual parent's evening today for Ds1 in year 7. It was literally 4 minutes with each teacher individually and in succession, and about 10 of them in total. Overall very happy with his progress as they all said he is bright, studious and gets on with it.

However I was told repeatedly he is 'too quiet', not always willing to put his hand up if unsure of an answer, is shy, doesn't join in enough in class discussions, and that I 'need to push him to become more extroverted'. I was quite shocked and just laughed at the last comment and replied well he is the way he is. I mean, how do you even push someone to change their personality? I dont want him to change as I love him the way he is and for being a deep thinker and not talking rubbish all the time like DH and ds2

I also mentioned he is newly diagnosed with ASD and that probably explains some of his behaviour. But honestly, is there something wrong with being too quiet? I want to focus on the positives, like him being so well behaved and in set 1, and actually putting his hand up sometimes as he refused to in primary school. Why is being loud celebrated and being quiet disliked?

It's not about being loud. It's having the confidence to speak up infront of your peers which is an important skill. Being able to speak in a group, to express your views, to check understanding are all important things.

I have a student who doesn't like to use her voice in case the answer she is going to give is wrong and she'll be laughed at. To build her confidence I suggested to her parents that once a lesson she puts her hand up and asks me for a pen, pencil whatever so that she built up her confidence in using her voice in front of the rest of the class.

Also if his written work is good and his behaviour is good then the one area to improve on would be group interactions and the teacher probably has to give an area of improvement.

What HP said.

It is also helpful in any kind of review - which could be about your performance at work, or could be a general parents evening at school, or could be about how a child is settling in to Infant school - to let you know all the things that are going well, BUT ALSO the things that would move you (in this case him) from "doing well" to "doing brilliantly"

Nobody is asking him to be loud, but working on his confidence NOW will open up so many doors to him as an older teen and then adult and indeed, throughout life.

I’m inferring that you’re fairly quiet and you’re taking this as a personal criticism as well as a criticism of your son. Firstly I’d echo other posters - teachers may HAVE to say something to improve or it’s not very helpful and parents may complain the feedback isn’t useful. Secondly, if he was too loud they’d be complaining about that (obviously) so it’s not that quietness is hated and loudness is loved. That sounds more like a hang up you have, sorry.

They would only say this because they think it’d help with his learning because collaboration with others and having the confidence to put your ideas forward are great life skills. No one wants him to start jabbering constantly but they do want him to feel able to speak up when he wants to.
If you’re characterising him and you as “the quiet ones” (this was a friend of mine and her father) you’re not doing him any favours btw, as changing and developing into a more outspoken type can feel like a betrayal or going “against type”.

I was painfully quiet (though not ASD) and I remember this being said of me. So I tried, it gradually became easier. My mum used to make me speak to people in transactional stuff (in a shop, buying tickets etc) and I hated it. But thank goodness that both school and my mum DID gently push me to do things like this.

As an adult, in employment, or even advocating for my own kids, I need to speak out, maybe in public, to people I know, or to professionals. And I can do it and do it well. If I'd been left to never speak and show what I knew, or to ask for what I need or I'm entitled to, I wouldn't function as well as I do.

So yes, it's okay to be quiet (I still am), but we have to work on ourselves all our lives. And you'll be doing your child a favour by empathising (yes, I know, it's really hard to speak in front of everybody, isn't it?) and encouraging (I know you're worried that the answer will be wrong, but it really doesn't matter, and if it is, then the teacher will explain it) so that he does start to feel more confident and capable.

It's hard because as you say there's not actually anything wrong with being a quiet type and verbal participation isn't a great way to check understanding in lessons anyway really as a rule.
However I DO often say this (in the same way I'm writing here) to parents because it quite often does kids good if they can put their hand up and give a good contribution because it gives them a confidence boost generally. I always say I've no expectation of it happening and certainly not overnight, but suggest it as something to try especially if the rest of the picture for that student is 'keep doing what you're doing'.

It's lovely seeing a quiet student feeling comfortable enough to put their hand up and have a go, that's the mark of a good classroom dynamic when you get a class to that point, for me.

This is all good have heard from nursery to sixth form with my ds. Don’t worry at all. My ds is off to university in September, where it won’t be mentioned again-I hope!

Sorry just seen about ASD diagnosis..in that case it's definitely a no pressure/low stakes situation.

Some of their phrasing was a bit off, you can't make yourself an extrovert if you are an introvert. But you can be introverted and still have the confidence to speak in front of people when you need to. It's an important life skill and I think they are trying to say he needs to start working on this now rather than it holding him back in the future.

This irritates me no end. I got it repeatedly throughout school and then in the workplace. I was endlessly told that I needed to be more confident and that made me even more self conscious and led me to shrink into myself even more as I was painfully aware of how shy I was and now that everyone was judging me for that.

I was diagnosed with autism as an adult.

To be more confident we need to feel safe to express ourselves and we need to be encouraged and praised when we make the effort. That's how to foster more confidence and contributions. Telling someone to be more confident or to talk more just doesn't create the right emotional conditions to be able to magically do it.

Expecting a backlash from people who don't have a problem with talking. For some of us it's a real challenge. I still go selectively mute when stressed or with people I feel intimidated around.

How do they know he’s understood the work if he doesn’t engage?
Imagine a conversation where you get no verbal communication at all?

Walk into the bank and ask for x y or z and they just look at you and say nothing!!

That’s what the teacher gets. He does need to learn to speak up, if something he doesn’t understand, is confused by or finds difficult, if he’s uncomfortable in some way or needs something - it must frustrate him just as much.

I understand how you feel, the same was said of my DS last year by his class teacher. I took it to heart as I feel I can’t help him with that as I’m pretty quiet and lack confidence myself (as does DH). I also wouldn’t want him any other way, and I’d much rather he was the way he is, some of the very outgoing kids (and adults make me cringe). I understand the need for people to be able to articulate themselves but I believe his confidence will increase with his ability and then he’ll contribute more when he feels ready.

@TwentinQuarantino

My sister was always deemed too quiet.

She’s the most loving, most responsible, most dependable, most wise, most grown-up person in our family. She’s in her sixth decade now.

Let your son be your son in all his quiet glory.

I had this all through DDs schooling ... every autumn term parents evening. But it was always different by the summer when dd had got to know that teacher. Except for the biology teacher who relentlessly hassled her - like Aesop's north rather than the south wind, completely counterproductive.

How do they know he’s understood the work if he doesn’t engage?

From his written work, I'd have hoped. Being quiet doesn't mean he's not engaged.

The phrasing of the teachers' comments is not OK. Too quiet for what? He's making good progress. If there was a context, such as reluctance to take part in small group discussions, and I mean small, no more than four in a group (specifically set up for the exchange of views) then I could see their point.

The not putting the hand up can be countered by the teacher using the no hands up strategy so anyone can be asked. How are views handled, there was a lot of emphasis on acknowledging other's answers and building on them in my last school, so partial answers were validated and valued. Of course this would sound very much like telling them how to do their job, so not sure how this would go down. Perhaps couch it in the context of this might help my DS.

As for pushing him to be more extroverted - what nonsense, how can his personality be changed in this way?

As a teacher, I never pushed pupils in this way, just set up opportunities for more vocal engagement to take place and see how it worked.

I was and still am an opinionated and talkative introvert, but my 7-9 years were virtually silent in class.

Always had this feedback about my son too, but he has always been a quiet and laid back child at school; that's just the way he is and I won't push him to change. He has some very loud characters in his class and my only worry is that because he is quiet in class he will go under the radar. At home on the other hand my son is loud because he is in an environment he feels comfortable in.

He has ASC! This is utterly central to .... everything! (Speaking as a mum of two diagnosed autistic children).

If he has reached Y7 without diagnosis (you mentioned his dx was recent) then he likely has high intelligence and will have been using that to observe and copy social behaviour.

Frankly it sounds amazing that he's putting up his hand at all, that's a great thing

Not wanting to risk giving an incorrect answer ie needing to be sure he's right, is very common in ASC. For my son this is one of his biggest barriers to learning as he is so anxious about getting things wrong that he goes into fight/flight to avoid even trying.

Has school got a social skills group? If so, you could ask the speech therapist overseeing it to do a session on speaking in class - why we do it, why it matters (if indeed it does, some valid points on this thread about that), how to judge when to raise your hand, how to plan what you'll say. This is actually a highly complex social interaction in a very public arena, there are lots of components to break down for an autistic person who can't intuit these automatically or learn by osmosis. It needs explicit, thoughtful instruction.

Your son sounds lovely. Good for you for not swallowing the "needs to be more extroverted" line.

Why is being loud celebrated and being quiet disliked?

That’s not it. As others have said it’s about building confidence in speaking and contributing.

It sounds like he’s getting there though, if he’s raising his hand sometimes rather than not at all, and this is early in his school career and he’s newly diagnosed ASD.

Don’t take it so personally on his behalf. We all have strengths and weaknesses, or things we can be aware of to mitigate and teachers are there to point out both, to give a rounded educational experience.

I’m the first to go to bat for introverts, but confident communication is a life skill and everyone benefits from working on it. Some people need more help in this area than others. Your DS sounds lovely, don’t focus on this as negative necessarily, just support him to do his best by giving opportunities to increase his confidence in this area.

He will always be an introvert but he can learn to participate. I have worked with loads of introverted professionals Many of them aren't thrilled with public speaking but they can do so if required. It is a skill that can be learned like any other skill. They don't suddenly turn into extroverts - introverts can have good social skills. I am not sure about the "quiet" comment - I think that probably is part of not speaking up. He can still be quiet and speak up. I am reminded of President Theodore Roosevelt's foreign policy which was: "speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."

@Happymum12345

This is all good have heard from nursery to sixth form with my ds. Don’t worry at all. My ds is off to university in September, where it won’t be mentioned again-I hope!

I'm a lecturer at a uni and in my program ( medicine and biomedical science) students are graded on their contribution within tutorials. This is because they need to be able to discuss their topic in depth and the tutorials are designed to engage them. Also their being prepped for the workplace where they need to be able to communicate effectively.

In term of students with ASD this is taken into account I how their graded but they still have to attend and contribute to the group learning.

My point there for the OP was you can do things to encourage your son like others have said up thread.
One other thing we did with DSS who was always worried about mistakes was to emphasise that mistakes are to be celebrated as it provides an opportunity to learn.
We mimicked this at home by talking about mistakes we've made and how we overcame them (often something silly that happens at work) but it built his confidence and helped him realise it's ok to make mistakes.

Actually quite shocked at some of the comments on this thread which are nothing short of ableist.

There are many ways for a teacher to check a student's understanding which doesn't involve being forced to speak in front of a class. And there are many professions where you don't need to challenge and engage on a deep level in face to face communication.

Even for autistics who are fully verbal, spoken communication can be very hard and it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that the only meaningful way of contributing or discussing a subject is through oral engagement. For some people this will never be achievable but according to the comments on this thread, that makes them inferior in some way.

Of course life is easier if you are able to challenge, engage and speak up confidently. And if you can do all of that, then ten points to Griffindor, well done! But autism is a communication disorder, it's like saying someone in a wheelchair really does need to try harder to walk.

Absolutely incensed by these comments.

And yes, I'm autistic.

It’s a really dated outlook they gave you OP. Now the focus is very much on outcomes and not process. Your child is still delivering on an outcome (understanding) then I would not worry.

This is why as a society we struggle, we play into a stereotype that suits certain individuals

@BluebellsGreenbells while a teacher might not like having little to no response, it’s not about them. It’s for the teacher to adapt their teaching style to the needs of the children in the class. The OP said her child is doing well academically so clearly they can assess whether he’s coping with the work. He has ASD which makes communication difficult.

OP I’d turn it back to the teacher and ask how they are supporting your son to speak in class, what strategies are they using and what they would suggest for a child with communication difficulties. I’d then take any pressure off him, trying to push him may make it much worse and he’s doing ok academically just now.