9 year old dislikes school and cba with learning

[puppystress]

My ds goes to school with shoulders slumped every morning and it's actually starting to get me down, I have run out of ways to try to encourage him or talk to him about it.

He has plenty of friends, no bullying issues. Doesn't struggle with the work he's given and is either average or above average jn all subjects. He just thinks the work set is a waste of time and boring. He just doesn't see the point in learning.

He describes his teachers as "hypocritical" (they don't answer his questions but when he doesn't answer their questions he gets "told off ") he definitely is sensitive to being "told off"...often getting teary at what he perceives to be a telling off when actually it isn't at all. If that makes sense.

Teachers have described him a kind, considerate and popular member of the class. They have said he surprises them consistently because he gives the impression he isn't listening but then goes on to prove (either through questioning or through the actual work he does) that he was in fact listening and taking it all in. They have no concerns regarding his learning or his social skills.

I'm kind of rambling now, guess I'm just venting, in the hope someone comes along and tells me something magical to do or say to change ds' view of school. I loved school and learning so I can't really relate and never quite know what to say. I want to connect with him about this and ultimately I'd love to see him going off to school happy.

Any suggestions?

When you re-read your list there's actually a lot of positives.

Popular, bright child, no real issues whose learning well.

Sometimes not making a big deal if issues is the best way to deal with them.

Ok so he has slumped shoulders every morning. I think my kids grumped their way to school every day for 13 years!!

My DD1 was very similar... bright, sailed through school work and was often bored...and at times this led her to challenge teachers now and again. Good ones rose to it, challenged her back to learn more, harrassed ones tried to shut her down. She was never rude or disruptive but could be quite pedantic!
She found secondary school better, with a few fabulous teachers who pushed her (and frankly a few who probably detested her)

She went on to study medicine and is now a doctor and loves it.. every day she learns more and is challenged!

We had to work hard at balancing her need to learn with school's need for her to shut up and crack on with it!

He sounds like he'd enjoy home education. Would that be possible in your circumstances?

I think pretty much every poster has had a good point. Some teachers engage better than others with kids like your son. Teachers don't really have time for the discussions he craves. If he's to pass tests, eventually he needs to learn the skill of giving the expected answer briefly, rather than the complete and correct answer. Sometimes it's socially unacceptable to tell people everything you know.

But still, he's hungry for meaningful learning and he isn't going to have that hunger fed at school, not reliably. No kid should be miserable every day waiting for a better teacher or for secondary school, having to make do meanwhile with the few crumbs of interesting ideas which happen to come his way. This is the reality for some children, but it doesn't make the situation okay.

Good morning everyone

Thank you to all who have posted on this thread. It certainly has given me food for thought, about stuff I didn't come on here to think about - the education system, the curriculum, whether or not my child is an arrogant little prick who antagonises and annoys the teacher

On a serious note there have been some really interesting, well thought out and helpful responses. A few things that I wanted to answer / point out from these responses:

Home education: a few PP have suggested this. Its not a possibility - just about to have a baby / he hated when I home schooled during lockdown / he is smarter than me at loads of things and can teach me a thing or two!! Besides he totally needs his peers every day, he is a very social child.

Out of school clubs - I have tried music, chess, lego. Have suggested coding, and all the other stuff the school have to offer. He is only interested in sport (football) which he does weekly. When I ask him what he wants to do as a job when he grows up its always the same - footballer / goalie. He doesn't seem interested in learning extra academic stuff, even though he is an over achiever in most subjects. its odd really, I don't get it. He says its a waste of time and boring.

I worry because his father (who I am not with) is on the dole / benefits and thinks work is for losers...my ds has said some worrying things about not needing to work as an adult because you can get "free money" like dad - myself and my husband try desperately to instill a good work ethic (we both work and we talk about the importance of contributing to society and paying your own way in life etc ) but maybe his father is having more of an influence than I thought.

Private school isn't a possibility as we can't afford it, although I think he would thrive. How do scholarships even work? How do I test him to see if he IS smart enough (his teacher doesn't even want to set him more work so maybe I think he's smarter than he is)?

We did an online IQ test and he scored 113, which they described as high average if I remember correctly - but it was only one of those silly apps and just for fun so didn't take it seriously. Can anyone recommend a proper test?

To the PP who said he wants to "spar" with his teacher - that is on the nose! He loves a good wordy, factual spar.

Speaking of work, I must log on now. Once again thank you for all the replies and TIA for an new ones :)

Oh and on a more practical note and relating to my original OP. Last night we spoke about school mornings and how we can make them more pleasant (because school is non negotiable) and he suggested setting the alarm clock half an hour earlier so he has more time "awake but not in school"

So, despite my curling toes at the thought of less sleep time, that's what we did. It was so much better this morning. We had breakfast in bed and he got ready for school with minimal moaning and groaning.

As he went out the door I thanked him for a nice morning and promised him swimming after school. He went off with a smile

Sounds like you had a good morning.

Don't worry about dad being a bad influence....if he is as clever as you say then over time and with maturity he will see the impact you and step dad have. The work ethic you instill will become ingrained. The benefits of working will become clearer to him.

We have an influential family member who doesn't work and mine are now coming into teenage years and can see that whilst he says attractive things the reality of difference between us and him is apparent....they can see there is no home ownership, they understand no pension being saved for etc etc.... Some of the alternative points of view are now just laughed at. - they get that for a society to function we need to pay NI and TAX etc.

@Mumdiva99

Sounds like you had a good morning.

Don't worry about dad being a bad influence....if he is as clever as you say then over time and with maturity he will see the impact you and step dad have. The work ethic you instill will become ingrained. The benefits of working will become clearer to him.

We have an influential family member who doesn't work and mine are now coming into teenage years and can see that whilst he says attractive things the reality of difference between us and him is apparent....they can see there is no home ownership, they understand no pension being saved for etc etc.... Some of the alternative points of view are now just laughed at. - they get that for a society to function we need to pay NI and TAX etc.

This is very reassuring to read.

I do have confidence that he will work it out himself and I believe he already kind of knows but, you know, it can be scary when for almost 50% of his life he is hearing from and living with this man who

1. Doesn't want to work
2. Hates women
3. Is homophobic
4. Is in my view neglectful and emotionally abusive

It's a lot to try to counteract as his mother. The school are aware of all this btw and he was appointed a mentor. The mentor spent a term with him and thought he was abroght boy with no concerns

• a bright boy

@Dumbledoresgirl

This isnt immediately helpful to you, but, speaking as a one time primary school teacher, it is definitely the case that some children and teachers click together better than others. Your son, meaning this in the nicest possible way, sounds like he is the sort of child who needs a particular teacher he can click with. Maybe next year he will find that teacher?

I also think he sounds as though he will do much better when he gets to secondary school and can interact with teachesa with more specialist knowledge.

That doesn't really help you now though. I would second making an appointment to speak to the class teacher to see if you can work out a better way of working going forward. Maybe there is a TA who could give him a bit more individual time to explore some ideas? You dont get if you don't ask.

thank you yes I think you make a valid point.

His teacher last year was very different. She openly spoke to me about the difficulties she had in teaching the curriculum and how she believes the current model isn't beneficial to learning in a meaningful way. She admitted getting into trouble at times because she would be teaching a certain something but would then allow the class to go off on a tangent if that's where their interests took them. I understand this isn't the way the education system works but my god I loved that teacher! And so did my son. He talks about her all the time and misses her.

His new teacher, while I am sure is a nice person and teaches the curriculum as it is supposed to be taught, is a bit boring for my son in comparison.

My ds was assigned a mentor last year and I hoped she would give him some motivation but alas...nope.

[quote secreteatingteen]@puppystress - aww not hating on him at all. I have a 9yo DS who thinks he is very, very clever and fascinating and funny! I adore him, obviously, but I'm aware that he can come across as a PITA too. I've noticed recently that my DS will say something or someone is "annoying" when what he really means is either it's not going exactly as he wanted it to, or the person/people involved don't think he is quite as amazing as he does! Could this be the case here?

I do get that it's a bit heart breaking when you think they are sad. Also - check in with the teacher if he is really disengaged at school. Both mine have gone through phases of saying they hated school but when I spoke to teachers they would say they were really involved and doing well. What I mean is, they can ham it up to us because it gets them some attention and it's interesting to see what we'll do in response, not because they are genuinely miserable.[/quote]
hehehe yes this could definitely be the case here!

I am loathe to speak to his teacher about it tbh...we have spoken a couple of times and I have found her hard to talk to, I felt like she wasn't really listening to what I was asking/saying, so I gave up.

Not long before the year is out...ds is going to have to suck it up and hopefully next year will be better.

Will keep to the earlier alarm and he loved the breakfast in bed (provided by step dad!) as that seemed to work today

Slightly off topic but just FYI, on your calculator, press the square root symbol and then the number and that will give you the square root of it. You don't need an app. Your son might be interested.

@madisonbridges

Slightly off topic but just FYI, on your calculator, press the square root symbol and then the number and that will give you the square root of it. You don't need an app. Your son might be interested.

well I never...I will tell him thank you

I mean for me, just the words "square root" ... even the words multiplication and subtraction...give me the heebeegeebees. I hated maths at school. And get a bit hot under the collar when he asks to play maths games!!

Scholarships for private schools usually only offer a saving of 10% of fees. If you are on a low income you can apply for a bursary. He would need to pass the entrance exam and perform well on the test so if it is a route you would like to go down I would get some 11+ books in English, Maths, VR and non VR to work through with him. I think there are 10+ books you can start on.

@3WildOnes

Scholarships for private schools usually only offer a saving of 10% of fees. If you are on a low income you can apply for a bursary. He would need to pass the entrance exam and perform well on the test so if it is a route you would like to go down I would get some 11+ books in English, Maths, VR and non VR to work through with him. I think there are 10+ books you can start on.

Thank you for the info.

I am not sure it's something we could afford tbh, 10% isn't much. We aren't low earners but we have a lot of outgoings and also a baby on the way. Also, although I think he would thrive, I am not sure he would be so keen on going to a private school (again his father's influence)

Sorry, I meant scholarships only offer 10% off fees but bursaries can cover up to 100%.

Oh I see, so something I can look into then...thank you

@puppystress play the maths games!!! I had to learn all my times tables to play at TT Rockstar with the kids....my maths wizz went through a scrabble phase - it's as much about words as letters....I am now hooked!! Try playing ScrabbleGo online with him (if he has a tablet and you have a phone). I think it's great for the kids to see us learning and persevering at something we might not be great at.....plus they do like beating me!! My son still needs to build more resilience when I learn the game and I win though!! (Monopoly deal last night....)

Sorry scrabble sentence should read....as much about maths as letters....(I need to proof read better).

I get it OP. I'm a primary school teacher and I have to say I'm one of those who would happily go off on a tangent and discuss things more deeply, as I'm from a science/geography background and I enjoy rambling! It sounds to me like your son is very gifted and perhaps feels a bit restricted in his current setting.

There isn't an easy answer though, as teachers can try their best but curriculum is so rigid now and they often have large mixed age classes and it can be hard to meet the needs of the brighter children when you have extremely weak ones in there too.

It sounds to me like you've been given some good suggestions though and there's certainly alot you can do outside of school to support him.
Attitude wise he probably does need to realise that sometimes things can't always be exciting and interesting school wise but the importance is there, just like we go to work to get paid. I understand regarding his dad. maybe it's a case of encouraging him to have dreams and goals and that school helps him to achieve those? Sorry not the best advice but hopefully some of it is a little helpful.

[quote Mumdiva99]@puppystress play the maths games!!! I had to learn all my times tables to play at TT Rockstar with the kids....my maths wizz went through a scrabble phase - it's as much about words as letters....I am now hooked!! Try playing ScrabbleGo online with him (if he has a tablet and you have a phone). I think it's great for the kids to see us learning and persevering at something we might not be great at.....plus they do like beating me!! My son still needs to build more resilience when I learn the game and I win though!! (Monopoly deal last night....)[/quote]
I do try with the maths...and he is always really encouraging and when I get it right he is over the moon for me bless him he proper buzzes ("see? you aren't as bad as you think mum!"). But yes it does still bring me out in a cold sweat. He is on that TT Rockstars thing but I just can't go there.

Scrabble is a winner, we play together a lot. See also Boggle / wordsearch and arrow clue books / wordscapes on my phone - I enjoy those with him. I didn't know you could play scrabble online together! This is something we can link up to while he is at his dads...thats a great idea, thank you.

Monopoly...gawd I haven't broken that out yet...not sure I will ever be prepared fo rthat but yes I get what you mean about winning / losing...my ds has very mixed feelings about losing to me!!

@Disneyblueeyes

I get it OP. I'm a primary school teacher and I have to say I'm one of those who would happily go off on a tangent and discuss things more deeply, as I'm from a science/geography background and I enjoy rambling! It sounds to me like your son is very gifted and perhaps feels a bit restricted in his current setting.

There isn't an easy answer though, as teachers can try their best but curriculum is so rigid now and they often have large mixed age classes and it can be hard to meet the needs of the brighter children when you have extremely weak ones in there too.

It sounds to me like you've been given some good suggestions though and there's certainly alot you can do outside of school to support him.
Attitude wise he probably does need to realise that sometimes things can't always be exciting and interesting school wise but the importance is there, just like we go to work to get paid. I understand regarding his dad. maybe it's a case of encouraging him to have dreams and goals and that school helps him to achieve those? Sorry not the best advice but hopefully some of it is a little helpful.

thank you

yes I think the attitude is to be worked on. He now believes school and work is boring and seems to have completely gone off learning. I have told him of course there will be times when its boring but that is part of life and being in school experiencing it will help him deal with it when he is older. And that its important to learn about things that might not be of interest because you must experience those things to know whether or not they interest you! If you don't try - how will you know? I fear it falls on deaf ears though because he has never enjoyed trying new things - whether it be new games / toys / music / activities / food. Its a battle to get him to try anything new at all really. But once he finds something he loves he will obsessively stick with that thing for months and months.

I couldn't help but smile and nod in recognition @puppystress. Your son is still young and just finding his feet. Don't force the issue with him too much. Listen to his complains, show him that you hear him and understand his feelings and then offer a positive counter view and let him work out a constructive resolution immediately. Do not under any circumstance feed into his (your?) notion that school misunderstand him or don't recognise his genius levels of intelligence Because if you do, you will make him ever more oppositional and anti school, you will create an identity for him as the misunderstood genius.

Instead, focus on his social skills. 9 year olds aren't brilliant with their social skills

Son: "Teacher said I was ridiculous because blah blah blah."
You: "Of course you're not ridiculous, you're lovely. What answer do you think the teacher would have preferred?
Son: "mumble mumble maybe this or that, dunno"
You: "maybe she wanted to have a clearer answer that helped everyone in the class understand about Polar bears. How do you think you could answer another time so that your teacher understand more easily where you're coming from and what your point is?"
Son: "dunno"
You: "How about you give the clear answer first e.g. polar bears live in the arctic and despite the ice the Arctic is considered a desert because of the lack of rainfall precipitation"

Teach him to not give smarty pants answers that surprise people but to share his knowledge on surprising facts by easing people into it. Even if your ds is a bit attention seeking, it's hardly a problem, he's 9! He ought to be a bit attention seeking but do not let him develop problematic beliefs about himself.

From your posts it does sound like you are a bit antagonistic WRT school. They do need to learn to fit in an package their knowledge in digestible format. Now one, I mean no one likes a smarty pants, I know as I have two with these tendencies. Also, while we're at it, it's the perfect time to lay the foundation for him not to get into mansplaining.

School is a lot about conforming and learning to operate in groups. The thing with home schooled kids is that as adults they often don't feel they can conform, which is ok but limits their employment options. On the upside, they might carve a path that is less travelled.

tell your son, with greta wisdom comes great responsibility he is responsible to explain things and answer questions in a suitable way that works for his audience, not that suits him and his intellect that is his challenge.

you know, before this thread I really didn't give much thought to the way in which my ds was being schooled. Only that he wasn't enjoying it much anymore.

I've never complained to the school, or about the teaching - to the school or to anyone. I kind of think its not my business, school is my son's domain and I don't get involved.

@thatsnotmybrush - I wouldn't like to be seen as antagonistic, and if I am I am doing it totally unawares - please help me out here, in what way am I being antagonistic? So I can take stock and change this behaviour?

I agree no one likes a smarty pants pain in the arse btw. And I love your response to the conversation, which I will try to do next time he brings anything like this up again. I was just surprised when he told me about the polar bear thing -

1. because he hardly tells me anything about school and

2. I was genuinely gobsmacked that a teacher would shut a child down by saying his answer was ridiculous. No matter what the circumstance, even if the child was being a fucking prick. as a PP said - how will that impact the whole class - they may not want to give answers anymore. And as my son also said last night, he doesn't want to ask his teacher anything again now.

I definitely didn't feed into the notion that the teacher was wrong and that he is smarter than her, at all. But he must have read my face at the "ridiculous" comment. I always tell him that even if you don't get along with your teacher, you must treat them with respect, and learn ways to rub together. I tell him its like a game. Not sure if he's listening though!

I volunteer in a primary school and honestly I despair for the more capable children, it would be amazing if we had more staff that could take the high ability children to work on more challenging aspects of the topic and put loads into the low ability and middle ability ones, meaning technically a smaller class with a higher staff ratio. Sadly, we cannot do this.

Perfect example of a year 4 class when they do the bus stop method for division. 246 divided by 2. Draw the bus stop, walk them through how many times does 2 go into 2? Yes it is 1. Write that above the number 2. Then how many times does 2 go into 4? By this point the high ability children have got the method and complete the question. The next question comes up, 369 divided by 3, they have finished it before the teacher has drawn it explaining how to draw the bus stop. They have to wait for the children who really do need it.

There isn't time to go off on tangents in class and it would be wonderful if they could do that. The teacher is looking for a basic answer, one word, so they can move on. Ds2 struggled the most with this, he watches lots of YouTube videos on educational information to broaden his knowledge. We have also watched things like this as a family.

At secondary he and his friends talk to a teacher at break/lunch. The teacher once told us at parents' evening that you never know what is going to come out of their mouths but that they are very knowledgeable kids with information about current affairs and mad facts.

I would explain to your son that money buys you things, if you don't have a lot of money then you are unable to buy things like cars, holidays, clothes, eating out, the latest games console, the latest headphones and games. That instead money goes on gas and electric, council tax and dental costs.

Perfect example of a year 4 class when they do the bus stop method for division. 246 divided by 2. Draw the bus stop, walk them through how many times does 2 go into 2? Yes it is 1. Write that above the number 2. Then how many times does 2 go into 4? By this point the high ability children have got the method and complete the question. The next question comes up, 369 divided by 3, they have finished it before the teacher has drawn it explaining how to draw the bus stop. They have to wait for the children who really do need it.

This reminds me of something ds tried to explain to me a few months back. He was actually red in the face when he was telling me, through sheer frustration. He definitely struggles with frustration as an emotion, something we are working on, but yes, he was near tears when he was explaining how slow it all was in class. Its a really flawed system and I do feel for the teachers and pupils alike. I was in bottom set Maths and always remember being panicky when my friend was finished before me.

Whenever I have suggested I speak to the teacher about setting more difficult tasks for him he is dead against it though and begs me not to get involved.

Yes, myself and dh speak openly when he is around, so he can hear (and doesn't think its a lecture directed at him) and ask questions, about the value of earning your own money...the freedom and choices it gives people, as well as the sense that you are contributing to society. We have also set up a Go Henry account for him and he earns money through that via chores etc