How would you deal with this? Child behaviour.

[Stormwhale]

Dd is 8, very intelligent, knows right from wrong. Lately though, she has been choosing to do things she knows are not ok.

A few examples... pouring shampoo/condtioner/bodywash down the toilet (she was spoken to and the money for the products taken from her pocket money), reading in bed after she is supposed to have gone to sleep leaving her tired and grumpy and lying about it (books now kept away from her bed and she is checked on regularly to make sure she is going to sleep), popping one of my disposable ice packs that I use for migraines and lying about that too. There are other things too, all relatively minor, but things she knew weren't the right thing to do.

Each time I talk it through, and try to think of a logical consequence. However i am not sure what to do about what she has done this time.

We bought her a reasonably expensive advent calendar, with the theme of something she is obsessed with. She is dairy free so the chocolate options are limited and I wanted to give her something special so she could have a lovely surprise each day.

She needed help getting one of the items out today, and I saw that she has opened every door on the calendar. She said she just got too excited and wanted to know what was in there. I explained that in doing so she has spoiled the point of the calendar, and that I'm really disappointed in the choice she has made. She knew it wasn't the right thing to do, but has once again done it anyway.

Would you say anything more? Would you give some sort of consequence? She has said sorry, but I am really disappointed that she has spoiled something really lovely which was supposed to be a little bit of fun each day. I dont want to take the calendar away, that would be cruel, but im not sure how to make her see that she needs to stop and think about what she is doing and make the right choice.

Any advice on how best to handle this and the recurring issue of her making crappy choices without being too harsh or overly punitive would be very much appreciated.

Honestly I would leave it. However sensible, advanced or bright she is she is only 8 and it must have been sooo tempting. There will be loads of adults, let alone teens and kids, who have given into temptation and polished off chocolate advent calendars by now.

Opening the advent calendar, whilst annoying, I'd put down to her age and curiosity. Pouring shampoo away I'd be furious about. If it was my daughter and she did that twice she'd lose some privilege she liked for a couple of days.

I'd leave the calendar, the natural consequence is that the chocolate has gone.

My 8yo is being a pain, in his case he's going through a rude phase and testing boundaries. Some of the comments are silly and I have to remind him that I'm his mum and not am 8yo boy on the playground. Others do warrant a stronger response. We've had cycles like this through lockdowns when it's an indirect way of expressing his unhappiness, and I think this time it's the odd mix of Christmas excitement plus Covid disruption and uncertainty. It doesn't excuse him, but understanding that it's an expression of something deeper helps keep a response to misbehaviour more proportionate.

I think I'm mostly gutted because my intention behind the calendar was to give her lovely little surprises each day, and what she has done has meant that isn't happening. I guess it makes me question why I bothered. I suppose though, the natural consequence is that she doesn't get the fun of the surprise each day now, so I will leave it there.

I did feel cross about the shampoo etc, and mostly quite shocked. It was one of the first of these incidents and i was shocked that she would do it. She has always been so trustworthy and it was just so needlessly wasteful and destructive.

I'm just not sure how to get her to listen to the little voice in her head again that says she shouldn't be doing something. She seems genuinely disappointed in herself, but keeps on making the poor choices.

Just to be clear, the calendar has little gifts inside instead of chocolate.

Clearly she really struggles with impulse control.

But she keeps doing stuff. So I definitely would try and think of a consequence, even for the calendar, because it’s another thing in a line of dishonest things.

I’d be thinking of a way that she could earn back a bit of independence and doing things without supervision, because at the moment she’s not able to control her own urges the way an 8 year old should start to do. Until then I’d probably not be giving her much free reign. The lying is not on.

I'm personally interested to see how many parents say this is pretty normal behaviour for an 8yr old.

I say this because, this is identical to my DS who was ADHD diagnosed aged 10. But I hate those threads where a child is just behaving badly and people start diagnosing over the internet... And here I am doing exactly my pet hate.

If you get a lot of responses from parents saying "my child was similar" then ignore me. If it seems that this behaviour isn't common, then maybe an ADHD assessment might be an idea.

This to me is quite odd behaviour. I get the advent calendar thing but pouring stuff away? She gets nothing out of that except to piss you off. Why did she say she had done it? What is your relationship like with her? How is she doing at school?

I think this is a key example of natural consequences - now she won't get a little surprise each day. I don't think it's such a big deal at this age, it's like reading the last page of a book before you get to the end.

Does she have any signs of early puberty, like breast buds ?

The calendar has a natural consequence. She's opened them all, now she doesn't get to open them every day. Fine.

The pouring shampoo etc is wasteful and I would have done like you and taken money from her pocket money to replace.

Sounds as if she has poor impulse control and is lying because she knows it's wrong and she shouldn't do it but can't help it.

I would be trying to openly discuss with her how she is feeling about this and why it's happening as you may have more progress.

Mollys it's interesting you say that, as I think I have ADHD that was misdiagnosed as BPD in my early 20s. I see a lot of my traits in dd, she struggles with sensory issues, forgetfulness, timing issues, and clearly impulse control... that sort of thing. I have been considering for a while whether I should get her seen, but haven't been sure if I should. Thank you for your comment.

My dd when she was that she used to take my expensive body spray and fill the room with it and walk around smelling it because she like the smell.

She has only just owned up to this. She’s 23.

Honestly kids do stupid stuff.

She knows what she’s getting in her advent calendar now which is crap and means she doesn’t get surprises when she officially opens the doors. I would leave it there for that one.

Did she pour the shampoo way to see if it foamed up when flushed? I can't see why else she would have done it.

This doesn't seem unusual for an 8 year old but I suspect most of my immediate family is neurodiverse...

I think her not having the daily fun of the advent calendrr is punishment enough (didnt everyone eat the chocolates ahead at least once/isn't this the equivalent?)

I struggle with impulse control - the thing is if you do punishment doesn't actually work as what is needed is that thought before. If its acting ob impulse you arent aware of consequences so keep punishing ironically just adds to the problem.

An 8 year old is still exploring the world in a "what happens if I do X?" Way. Mine still liked "making potions" at that age and I eventually got her a set so she didn't use my stuff. Redirected the enthusiasm.

Sometimes if its attention seeking (not saying it is in your case) they can be needing more 1 on 1 time, or more to stimulate them to prevent them acting out.

Also exercise...

Oh god. Making potions. Yes.

She once also stuck a pencil right up her nose to see what would happen. I think she was 7 or 8 then? (Yes there was a tsunami of blood and an A&E visit)

She did grow out of it and is NT.

This to me is quite odd behaviour. I get the advent calendar thing but pouring stuff away? She gets nothing out of that except to piss you off. Why did she say she had done it? What is your relationship like with her? How is she doing at school?

I really do think it comes down to poor impulse control and in that case, boredom. She was supposed to be tidying her room (another sore point, she just cannot keep it tidy) and instead did this. I think she was making some sort of potion in the toilet. She is v into harry potter, and had recently made 'potions' with her friend on a play date. I think that's where the idea came from.

Our relationship is good, she is very cuddly and warm with me, tells me all about her day, what she is interested in, what her friends are doing. The main thing that isn't good is my health, so she may be reacting to me being poorly. I have been quite unwell for a while now, which will obviously take its toll on her.

She is doing well at school, she is very bright and is ahead of where she needs to be despite the lockdowns etc. She puts a lot of pressure on herself though, which I try to talk to her about and make sure she knows noone expects her to be perfect.

Aah my daughter is 17 now. I do not miss the making potions and slime.

I remember holding a mirror under my bum to see what it looks like when a poo comes out 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Kids do silly things. Or maybe it’s just me 🥴

She’s 8, she’s doing typical 8 year old things. Don’t you remember playing and wasting toothpaste and shampoos when you were that age - mixing them together etc. Pouring them down the toilet isn’t great but explain it to her and the buy her some cheap shampoo that she can mess around it. The rest of her actions are normal, and just require a chat about rather than a telling off.

the recurring issue of her making crappy choices

I know it’s very on trend to see parenting in terms of helping children “to make the right choices”, but I think it’s sending you down a bit of a rabbit hole here. I’m certainly no parenting expert, nor am I an expert parent, but, from an outsider’s point of view, I’d say:

• The advent calendar thing - yes, that counts as a crap choice. She hasn’t entered into the spirit of it and, from your point of view, has wasted that money. So I’d probably say “Look DD, these are expensive and the point is that it’s something that lasts the month. If you’re not going to do that, I’ll just get you a basic one next year as it’s pointless.”
• Reading in bed late - not a choice. At her age, she doesn’t get to choose what time she goes because she’s not old enough to judge how much sleep she needs. This is a separate point from the lying about it, which also isn’t something to see as “a choice”, but is something wrong.
• Pouring shampoo down the loo is destructive and wasteful, also not “making a poor choice”. Sounds like making her replace it was a good strategy.

Nothing you say sounds that out of the ordinary in my experience of kids that age; I’m sure she’ll learn from her mistakes!

I would say that some 8yos have terrible impulse control! One of my children would never dreamed of doing anything like this (she's Y11 now, and still follows what I say to the letter!) the other was just like this and did daft things regularly, still does
That said, it's looking more and more likely that he has ADHD.

The natural consequence is she doesn’t get a surprise. For some kids, the uncertainty of will I like the surprise is too overwhelming. Too much expectation. It might be the same for your daughter.

What I think is the bigger issue is why does it bother you so much? Surely you can see that that is child like behaviour.

She lied because she knew you would get angry and there would be a consequence. It’s self preservation. You need to be more open and accepting when she makes “bad choices”. I have an issue with the phrase bad choice. It implies there was thought and a decision was made to do the action but it sounds like it is a lack of impulse control. At age 8, this will only be starting to develop.

With regards to the shampoo. It sounds like sensory seeking (watching it pouring and mixing). I think you are right to expect that she replaces it.

Unless your daughters behaviour is impacting on school and her relationships, i would not consider any label. Think of it as knowing your daughter and knowing her needs and understanding her behaviour without the need of a label.

@MollysDolly

I'm personally interested to see how many parents say this is pretty normal behaviour for an 8yr old.

I say this because, this is identical to my DS who was ADHD diagnosed aged 10. But I hate those threads where a child is just behaving badly and people start diagnosing over the internet... And here I am doing exactly my pet hate.

If you get a lot of responses from parents saying "my child was similar" then ignore me. If it seems that this behaviour isn't common, then maybe an ADHD assessment might be an idea.

I was also thinking similar. My 8YO is going through the assessment process at the moment. I have no idea what's normal behaviour for his age and what is just something he would do.

Back to OP, with the advent calendar, the only person it will effect is her. So let natural consequences be the solution here.
Just one thought I've had though is she seems to be keen to explore and experiment with things in her environment. Especially with the ice pack. I appreciate its not ideal if money is tight, but could you perhaps look at picking up some cheap extra bits for her to experiment and play with.

One of my 6YO favourite things to play with is his science kit. It was £5 from B&M and basically a load of bicarb soda, vinegar and food colouring. Endless hours of entertainment.

I think I'm finding it trickier as well because I am parenting in a completely different way to how I was parented. My parents were the type to scream and shout, and use fear to control us. So it would be threats about what would happen when my dad got home, then my dad would come in from work and be very scary and aggressive. I am trying to parent in a gentle way, where we talk things through and have fair consequences, but im having to make it up as I go along as its so different from the way I was brought up.