How would you deal with this? Child behaviour.

[Stormwhale]

Dd is 8, very intelligent, knows right from wrong. Lately though, she has been choosing to do things she knows are not ok.

A few examples... pouring shampoo/condtioner/bodywash down the toilet (she was spoken to and the money for the products taken from her pocket money), reading in bed after she is supposed to have gone to sleep leaving her tired and grumpy and lying about it (books now kept away from her bed and she is checked on regularly to make sure she is going to sleep), popping one of my disposable ice packs that I use for migraines and lying about that too. There are other things too, all relatively minor, but things she knew weren't the right thing to do.

Each time I talk it through, and try to think of a logical consequence. However i am not sure what to do about what she has done this time.

We bought her a reasonably expensive advent calendar, with the theme of something she is obsessed with. She is dairy free so the chocolate options are limited and I wanted to give her something special so she could have a lovely surprise each day.

She needed help getting one of the items out today, and I saw that she has opened every door on the calendar. She said she just got too excited and wanted to know what was in there. I explained that in doing so she has spoiled the point of the calendar, and that I'm really disappointed in the choice she has made. She knew it wasn't the right thing to do, but has once again done it anyway.

Would you say anything more? Would you give some sort of consequence? She has said sorry, but I am really disappointed that she has spoiled something really lovely which was supposed to be a little bit of fun each day. I dont want to take the calendar away, that would be cruel, but im not sure how to make her see that she needs to stop and think about what she is doing and make the right choice.

Any advice on how best to handle this and the recurring issue of her making crappy choices without being too harsh or overly punitive would be very much appreciated.

My dd has taken to putting the toothpaste tube in Bath with lid off! 3 nights in a row! = 3 toothpaste tubes gone ruined.
But she's 3.5. Still had a consequence.
Day 1 explained that it's ruined apparently she was doing magic.
Day 2. Bed before younger brother (this hurts her pride)
Day 3. The £1 nana gave her has to buy new toothpaste instead of a choc /sweet.

I now have none of her toothpaste until I go to the shop today. Which I didn't want to do.

She has plenty of science/craft kits etc. She is very into that sort of thing so has lots.

Honestly she just sounds 8.

That same 23 year old hacked her own hair when she was 6. I was all proud excellent parent that she hadn’t done it when she was 3 which was when I expected her to.

It’s just one of those things and unless she continues I wouldn’t worry.

Cutting her hair was another of the incidents. She was so upset after it, especially when she realised it made it all stick out when she had plaits. I was another smug parent at 3, but she was clearly just late to that party!!!

I think I use 'poor choice' as a less critical way of saying you did something stupid. I try and make it about the behaviour, rather than her as a person. Again trying to do things differently from my parents. I was told that my mum had to love me, but didn't like me and that I was horrible/stupid/naughty. I try and always focus on the behaviour, not her as a person, so by saying it was a poor choice I feel like I'm not commenting on my feelings for her or her personality.

One of mine tried to cut a fringe at 9. It really isn't uncommon they "have a go" at some point.

Can she have stuff to make "slime"? I think we used a lot of cheap conditioner for that st some point but cant remember what else. Or theres a good kit in home bargins with glitter and bits in that might be fun?

While yes discussing "bad choices" with her is worth doing it is also worth seeing whats leading to those just as much . Is boredom a general problem ? Problem solve together with all that.

You sound like you're doing great, its especially harder for those of us with not -ideal role models from our own childhood.

You also want to avoid hercreating a self image of herslef as "someone who makes poor choices" as it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. But that's only really a problem of you're constantly telling her she makes poor choices.

Explosive child by Greene is very good if you want to look further although your child isn't at the level of problem thats aimed at perhaps it does have some amazing strategies.

I think she sometimes feels ignored as her younger brother almost certainly has ADHD and is incredibly demanding. The problem is the things he does are usually dangerous so need dealing with immediately and as he is only 2.5 he needs supervising constantly. This has at times meant she has had to wait/amuse herself while he is dealt with, but he can't be left to his own devices at all.

This is a great graphic I love.

Nothing unusual about the pouring - it’s quite a sensory experience to see things pour and pool plus that element of what happens when you flush. I would talk through the value of the products and leave it there. The calendar is a non issue. You wanted her to enjoy it and she did! I would still do the same. I eat all the chocolates, read the end of the book first and and always will. The reading in bed I would just manage by giving her some reading time then being around so she knows it’s over. It’s not a dreadful thing to try.

If you have a kid who you would never leave with the big red button then you have to manage their environment a bit so life doesn’t get negative. It easy for kids who don’t have these urges and hard when they do to appear as good, even when they are working hard at restraining impulses. She sounds lovely and if you have been unwell her control might be worse. I honestly don’t think these actions need any punishing some just need a chat. If you can’t make ‘poor choices’ at that age what a shame. Are you very orderly or worried about her? Sometimes - am looking at one of mine as I say this- oh have to embrace some of the chaos. He did way way odder stuff - he is relatively civilised these days but he wouldn’t ever leave himself in a room with a big red don’t press button!
Hope your health improves soon.

It only took an hour,to have another child diagnosed with a medical condition. Communication and really listening to a child takes patience and time.But of course it is much easier and doesnt need any reflection on your behaviour,to just slap a medical condition on your daughter.

Girls are masively underdiagnosed with adhd/asd. I wouldn't have jumped in with that at all but if its in the family it also might be a consideration (although your examples are common 8 year old behaviour, so it would only be if you see an impulse control pattern.) Boys often act out in ways that worry adults more than girls do.

It sounds like you have your hands full. It is tough. There is the sen board on here but also are you in any local facebook groups etc for support?

Can you together come up with a list of "things I can do if mum is busy with little brother" and have it visually up- on a whiteboard maybe? Fun things that she can occupy herself with and choose from. Having something visual can help when you can't think of anything!

This to me is quite odd behaviour. I get the advent calendar thing but pouring stuff away? She gets nothing out of that except to piss you off.

I'm 37 and I think it would be quite fun to see how much foam a full bottle of shampoo would make down the toilet with a flush.

I wouldn't do it, but again, I'm 37 not 8. I don't think OP has described anything particularly harmful here, although I know it's annoying. There's no intention to hurt or deprive anyone else, it's just impulsive stuff.

I dont think we need to criticise the OP. Yes communication and patience take time but the OP is posting here so obviously wants to get "it" right and is keen to learn.

I loved pouring and got my kids those waterways (like a marble run) mainly for my benefit 😳

All perfectly normal but then me/mine have ADD/ADHD… 😬.

Do nothing. I’m sure be and my sister did similar when we were younger. I also wasted a lot of money making ‘potions’ out of toiletries when I was a similar age and no one punished me for it.

My DD is like this sometimes and I'd say it could well stem from the sleep issue. Just 30 min change in bedtime can swing her from compliant child to gremlin within a few days. I'd try to really push back bedtime, be strict on lights out and see if that helps (easier said that done going into Xmas holidays though!)

You posted while I did. You sound like you need more confidence. Confidence to say my parenting is the right way (it is) and perhaps that there are more things to let go. What if you had just gone - oh well it will grow back and called her scissor hands with a smile while talking about her creativity and other times people have given themselves bad haircuts? What would happen if you just said - ha ha you wanted all they toys huh and then did a pantomime of - and what did you get today on each new day as you are winking at her? The answer is nothing - she is still unlikely to butcher her hair again and whether she does the advent calendar isn’t he wrong order - well so what? Look at the older children of parents who are like you are - they will be great. Be confident in your choices.

Thatldo

I'm not sure that is fair. I really struggled at school once I got to the end of secondary, then since then have had huge problems with my mental health and wellbeing. I know now from further research that many of my traits that have caused me so many problems come under the umbrella of ADHD. I can see so much of myself in her, and there are areas of life that she is really struggling with. I dont think that there is anything wrong with considering whether she may be fully NT, and I think my thread proves that I constantly reflect upon my behaviour as her mother and try to do the best by her I possibly can. I havent slapped any label on her, and haven't used it as an excuse to do a poor job. I'm trying my best to support her.

Slobber that is a great post

This sounds so much like my DD. She does things she knows she's not meant to do, she knows we'll be annoyed with her, she knows it'll have consequences. But she still does it.

She's a clever kid, and usually has better impulse control than her older brother, but it's her doing these deliberately naughty things, not him. And I don't get it at all.

Loving your graphic too:)

WoodenReindeer’s graphic, that is:)

Put of interest, did she open and remove all the gifts, or did she open to check what they were and then leave them?

My child finds the unknown really anxiety-making. So surprises are really hard. But once the surprise is known, they can anticipate the getting of the gift, knowing just how good or not the gift itself is. I wonder if there’s some of that going on?

Either way, natural consequence is that they aren’t a surprise any more. Logical consequence might be that next year if it’s really important to you she only opens one door a day, that you keep hold of the calendar yourself and only present it to her once a day.

I know some people go for refillable advent calendars and only fill one day’s drawer at a time if impulse control is an issue.

Shampoo is annoying but really is within the range of normal childhood behaviour. Tactile, smelly, visual, deeply satisfying. Plus the whole making potions or George’s Marvellous Medicine or just illicit pleasure. I’d’ve done exactly the same re: replacing it, with the addition that if it’s a repeat occurrence, I’d try to find something more budget friendly that will give the same sensations. Gelli baff is hideous stuff which thickens bath water into jelly; some children love that. Or cheap washing up liquid in a bowl to make bubbly mountain ranges, aiming to replace the behaviour rather than remove it.

If these things are mostly happening when you’re diving to rescue determined toddler from imminent death, it may help you if you can have a stack of instant activities to hand - so instead of “hang on, back in a sec just got to rescue Ian” it becomes “can you make me a play dough snail/blow a double bubble/spin round five times then practice a forwards roll/make a card for Grandma whilst I rescue Ian?” If you’ve got a mental list of things you can fire at her, things she can do, hopefully that’ll fire her imagination in more positive directions rather than what she can create out of a void.

Sounds like with her younger brother needing extra, and you not being well, there's a bit of a pinch point.
PPs have mentioned sleep, but also, how much exercise is she getting? Are there any friends/aunties etc who could take her out for, well, anything really, a walk with their dog, a head torch kick about, admiring the local Xmas lights?
Can't comment on ADHD but a bit of extra exercise always helps calm things down at home.