Asked someone to move from the disabled bay

[AllThingsServeTheBeam]

No real point to the thread really. But today instead of us driving off and trying to find somewhere else to park in our town, dp stopped and told someone who was just sat in a disabled bay with the engine idling with no badge to move (nicely). The guy did move and pulled up further along. We were able to park up with a much shorter walk!

Why do people think it's ok to park in disabled bays when they don't need them? We would have normally just driven off and I would have possibly had to have stopped in the car if it was too far for me to walk. People don't seem to care their actions have concequences.

@Theremoresefulday I have not insulted you; I have remained very civil in this thread despite many hostile responses. At most I've been a bit exasperated!

I'm sorry you had such a bad time getting PIP.

@innocenta then please re-quote where you have explained why it's so easy to get a BB. I must have missed that post.

[quote AllThingsServeTheBeam]@innocenta then please re-quote where you have explained why it's so easy to get a BB. I must have missed that post. [/quote]
X 2 from me

To clarify, I don't think the BB should be tied to PIP at all, partly because of how inefficient, slow and unfair the DWP is at processing PIP claims.

I don't drive (funnily enough, my disability means I'm medically unfit to drive because I can't use my hands and feet if I can't see them!). I get high rate mobility so have a blue badge.

We only use bb spaces if I'm going in to the venue, so at the cinema, supermarket, restaurant etc. I do like to do the weekly shop (and why shouldn't I, I prefer to look at things not rely on deliveries, and I've had that thrown at me a few times).

It's amazing how often someone with no badge displayed is in the spaces I need. I can get out of the car and walk to the wheelchair at the back! My condition fluctuates on a monthly basis as I get regular IV infusions that wear off, so depending on the part of the month I'm in, I can walk in to Asda (stopped going to Tesco when they made the buggies inaccessible for me by moving them further away) and get on a buggy. Then walk out. If you can't tell I'm struggling to walk then you don't have eyes! But even so we've had people question my blue badge because I'm walking!

I suppose my point is, feel free to have a go at people with no BB, but give people who draw into BB spaces a few seconds to display the badge! Mine isn't on permanent display as sometimes dh and sometimes ds drive me to the shops.

@Theremoresefulday

You said blue badges are too easy to get.

What exactly do you mean by this? What conditions do you feel they are currently awarded for that they should not be? What conditions do you feel they are “handed out” for as a result of the 2019 changes that they should not be awarded for? What level of pip award and in what sections do you feel is only worthy of a 2nd tier badge?

Again, I have stated many, many times that I do not seriously favour a two-tier system.

It is not uncommon to mention a speculative, 'thought experiment' style idea as a solution to an irresolvable issue. I have previously clarified that I don't truly believe we should do this. Obviously a mistake even to mention it here on MN! But do you really think it helps the discussion to keep making such loaded accusations? I very explicitly said earlier in the thread that there is no condition that I think precludes a BB.

@Innocenta

To clarify, I don't think the BB should be tied to PIP at all, partly because of how inefficient, slow and unfair the DWP is at processing PIP claims.

So how would you propose blue badge entitlement be assessed? And by whom?

If you think no condition preclude a blue badge, how does that sit with your assertion that they are handed out too easily ?

I actually once had to ask an articulated lorry to move in our local Next car park because he actually parked across ALL of the disabled spaces and the three P&C spaces. This really was the biggest piss take Ive come across albeit he didnt take much asking, he apologised and moved pretty quickly!

@Theremoresefulday

If you think no condition preclude a blue badge, how does that sit with your assertion that they are handed out too easily ?

Re-posting my comment from earlier that sums up my view:

I think we're not fully understanding each other; there isn't any specific condition that I think precludes having a BB by definition. What I'm saying is that I think when the BB population is broadened (but there are still, of course, limited spaces - and abled people abusing them), within that population there will be differing degrees of need. It then becomes harder for the most disabled and restricted.

As I said, I don't have a solution for this, because it's not as if the 'least' disabled who qualify for a BB somehow don't need any priority at all. They clearly do. But each widening of a scheme like this has a knock-on effect.

But if you are awarded a blue badge you have the need for one. End of. It is actually that simple.

And please stop with your ableist comments. It’s insulting.

@Theremoresefulday

And please stop with your ableist comments. It’s insulting.

It's literally impossible for me to be ableist, given how ableism works as a system of structural oppression.

1. The only acceptable response to a person parking in a yellow space without displaying a blue badge is 'Don't forget to display your badge the parking officers are frequently around here' in a friendly helpful way as you pass by their car. I assume everyone is a genuine user and is as forgetful as me and I would welcome a friendly reminder to put my badge on display.

1. More yellow spaces are needed everywhere and put hatching on both sides and the back. I can't use spaces which don't have hatching to the right, I drive with hand adaptions and I can't back in, as I need to hoist my chair out of the boot. Hatching at the back would make me safer, as I am sick on sitting on my stool in the middle of the driving lane of the carpark whilst I hoist out my wheelchair.

1. Getting blue badges should be streamlined and standardised. I hear of people have to fill out lengthy forms and having physical exams before getting a blue badge. I was lucky and got one straight off following a phone call and emailing the council one letter from my consultant. Having the blue badge made a big difference with all my hospital appointments.

When my PIP came though, I rang and thanked the council for issuing my card straight away and not making me wait months before PIP responded.

So I would say it is both easier and harder than you think to get a blue card, depending on your council and how kind the person on the end of the phone is. I got lucky but it should be standardised across the UK.

(Ditto wheel chair services. If I lived in the next region over, I would get a fitted stair lift, outside wheel chair ramp and wheelchair free of charge, but in our region we had to self fund all of these. Again postcode lottery and not fair.)

Here is an example:

Isabel has severe pain and fatigue.

Jane uses a manual folding wheelchair.

Kate uses a powered wheelchair.

All three women have a BB - everyone has an equal right to the BB space. None of them would be wrong to park in it, and none of them should feel guilty or at fault. But the impact of not having the space would be different for each:

Isabel has greatly increased pain and fatigue.

Jane has difficulty getting her chair out, it is less safe for her, and she has to cross a dangerous car park.

Kate cannot exit her vehicle, and must go home.

My point is that if you get twenty more Isabels, then without any of them ever doing anything wrong at an individual level, the impact on Kate is going to be very significant. And that doesn’t even consider all the other types of people (including healthy, abled Mary, who is just popping in…).

It isn't the responsibility of any of the women to fix. But it is still a genuine problem and it isn't honest or fair to try to stifle discussion.

@Innocenta

I am 'Kate' in your example. I choose to park in the furthest yellow space to the shop, in order to leave the closers spaces for 'Isabell's'.

My reasoning is that once I hoist off my powerchair, I can easily ride to the door and around the store, where as 'Isabel' would equally have to go home without shopping if all the nearest spaces are filled.

So if all spaces were filled with 'Isabell's' then more yellow spaces are needed overall.

[quote Worrysaboutalot]@Innocenta

I am 'Kate' in your example. I choose to park in the furthest yellow space to the shop, in order to leave the closers spaces for 'Isabell's'.

My reasoning is that once I hoist off my powerchair, I can easily ride to the door and around the store, where as 'Isabel' would equally have to go home without shopping if all the nearest spaces are filled.

So if all spaces were filled with 'Isabell's' then more yellow spaces are needed overall.[/quote]
I remember your situation really well from when we spoke on your thread a few months ago. I'm so sorry that there hasn't been progress with your adaptations! It's incredibly crap that it's such a postcode lottery, honestly breaks my heart. You've been through so much.

(Yes, in reality I think people often try to be as fair and accommodating as they can be! I need to use a chair and would never take the nearest space to the door, as I'm aware the distance would be much harder for an ambulant disabled person.)

@Worrysaboutalot Do you mind if I ask if you're still largely shielding? I am, and getting pretty fed up with it!

[quote Worrysaboutalot]@Innocenta

I am 'Kate' in your example. I choose to park in the furthest yellow space to the shop, in order to leave the closers spaces for 'Isabell's'.

My reasoning is that once I hoist off my powerchair, I can easily ride to the door and around the store, where as 'Isabel' would equally have to go home without shopping if all the nearest spaces are filled.

So if all spaces were filled with 'Isabell's' then more yellow spaces are needed overall.[/quote]
This 100% I can get about without a wheelchair if it's only a matter of metres. Which is why my dp asked the guy to move. If we had to park further away I would've had to stop in the car.

I am getting a wheelchair this week. And I am both excited and upset at the prospect all at the same time

@AllThingsServeTheBeam Everything else aside, I'm sorry you're struggling with mixed feelings about the chair. I know it's a big step. Really hope it proves helpful for you xx

[quote Innocenta]@AllThingsServeTheBeam Everything else aside, I'm sorry you're struggling with mixed feelings about the chair. I know it's a big step. Really hope it proves helpful for you xx[/quote]
It's a step I didn't want to take but I am pretty house bound at the minute. It's really getting me down. I am on the list for both knees and my left hip (already had my right) replaced. But with the NHS as it is I will be waiting a while. I'll need a motorised one or foldable mobility scooter as I am also on the list for my shoulder and elbow replacement (I will be bionic one day). So I can't use a manual wheelchair.

Thank you for your kind words.

Isabel could just as easily have to turn around and go home if she couldn’t get a space suitable though. It’s not a race to the bottom.

Really DS needs his blue badge more on days he isn’t using his wheelchair than when he is. When he is in the chair the pain and fatigue aren’t as much an issue for him.

@Innocenta I remember you, thank you for your kind words

It is awful that there isn't enough provision of us who needs it and such provision is often ill presented (none/not enough hatching), misused (staff van parked there) or isn't enough to cover the need. (more spaces please)

It makes us all worry about using the space we are entitled to use!

Like I went to the theatre recently , first time in 20 years and because it took me longer to get to the disabled toilets in the interval. I had to queue behind 20 women! I tried my hardest to believe that all of them had genuine invisible need to use that one toilet and it would of been rude to ask to go ahead.

I understood the real problem is only having one disabled toilet at the theatre, so I ask them to look into providing another one.

Luckily I didn't have an accident waiting for the disabled toilet, I only missed 5 minutes of the second act and I only bruised my legs trying to get myself in the right seating position, without seeing my legs or the chair in front. It could have been much worse!

[quote Innocenta]@Worrysaboutalot Do you mind if I ask if you're still largely shielding? I am, and getting pretty fed up with it! [/quote]
Yes and No.

Yes, with the exception of the one theatre trip, where we sat at the back with masks and a couple of early cinema outings where we are always the only family in the room, we get up early!
But I do order my food online and avoid being close to people where I can. I pick up my youngest girl from primary school early with permission, so I avoid hanging around crowds of adults.

I still wear masks and use hand gel. As I am immune suppressed I might continue to do this for the foreseeable future.

No, because I have three high school kids who mix with 1000 kids plus teachers and support staff every day!

How are you doing?

@AllThingsServeTheBeam It is a very strange feeling deciding that you need and then getting a wheelchair.

Some people think it is better to struggle on in pain and frequent falls on crutches than to 'give in' to using a wheelchair. Well those people can choose to do that, but I want to keep up with my kids and enjoy life, not suffer in more pain than I am already in.

I was already fed up falling over and down stairs and struggling in pain on crutches, before I was diagnosed with a permanent condition. So whilst I cried when we ordered my chair, when she arrived I was so happy (and still sad inside too) and the freedom she gave me is immeasurable.

The relative ease in getting around and have a longer leash, as my few steps on crutches transformed to 27 miles on the flat in my powerchair! Certainly a five hour walk around the zoo with the family, which would of been impossible before.

It isn't 'lazy' either. It is a lot harder to hoist a chair in and out the car at every stop! Doing a quick errand takes me an hour minimum but it is much faster than me on crutches! No one (in sound mind) would use a chair if they didn't need to, it is just better than the alternative when your legs/body won't work right for whatever reason.

So it is understandable to be in two minds at this point. Just enjoy your chair when she arrives, enjoy the freedom she will give you.