Why are the British so comfortable being overweight?

[lookforthespace]

When it seems there is a lot of chit chat about now 'oh, you've lost weight!' People obviously want to be slim. But they can't do it?

Yet so many people, including myself,
seem to fluctuate and remain overweight

Is there a psychological difference between us and Japan/South Korea? It is it just because those countries will outright tell you 'You are fat'. And it isn't seen as rude or impolite to say so

Japan for instance is very low

Just thinking about Covid impact

@Namechangetimes100

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t people of south East Asian heritage naturally more petite anyway, their BMI normal range is lower than for other ethnic groups? So surely Nature plays a role here too?

www.diabetes.co.uk/south-asian/bmi-values-for-south-asians.html

I’m a now naturally slim person and I really dislike threads like this because it’s more fat shaming and othering of ‘fat’ people, like it’s the worse thing in life you can possibly be. Of course a healthy BMI is important (it’s an outdated and arbitrary measure of a ‘healthy’ weight anyway) but there are so many individual factors that contribute to obesity, socio economic (fact is convenience food is cheap), we have an eat and run culture (France for instance has 2 hr lunch breaks and meals are to be savoured), we have a finish everything on your plate culture, a diet industry worth billions that reinforces unhealthy eating habits, huge pressure to have the constantly changing perfect figure (again unhealthy eating habits), an all or nothing societal mentality, generational bad habits, not enough emphasis on food as nutrition and healthy cooking with cheap ingredients in school, and the stigmatising of those perceived to be fat (i for instance have been bullied my whole life for my weight and I’ve never been more than 9.5 stone at 5’3 a large size 10) the stigma is social but it’s medical too.

It has to be partly bone structure. I'm half Arab and very much take after that side of the family - all the women on that side are petite by UK standards. My BMI is just under 18 I think and according to my doctor I'm in rude health, have regular periods, and am not on a low carb, low calorie, or low fact diet. I don't think BMI is particularly reliable and shouldn't be used as a one-size fits all measure of health. And I've noticed how my doctor never suggests I should gain weight just to fit within an arbitary range, given that my health is good, when people who are a bit over the range are often advised to lose weight even if they have zero health problems. So what is overweight, really? Over what weight?

That said! Clothing sizes in this country are pretty ridiculous at this point. Vanity sizing is huge and more than that, its completely arbitary. My friend and I were just saying that the other day that we both have two pairs of trousers from the same shop, with the same number on the label, which are manifestly not the same size. Its far too easy to tell yourself 'size x isn't fat' when you can basically be any size you want (within reason) if you're careful about what and where you shop.

LOL I meant low fat diet obviously. Though as a researcher I rather hope I'm not a low fact diet either

[quote Namechangetimes100]@Starcup of course not every overweight person has diagnosable mental health conditions BUT there are many complex reasons why people are overweight and many of them as psychological. I.e. learned behaviour from childhood, low self esteem, all or nothing mentality, deprioritising health over convenience, poor impulse control etc. These aren’t mental health conditions of course but they are psychological reasons as to why one might be overweight.

The comparison you draw between criminality and being overweight and ‘we might as well let criminals go if they have mental health sides’ is such a straw man and generally speaking a poor comparison (kinda offensive too) we acknowledge that external factors like socio economic status, home life etc affect development and can contribute to criminality, it doesn’t excuse it (obviously obesity is different as if really only affects the self rather than criminality affecting others) But the same principle applies external factors mould and shape psychology and thus behaviour.[/quote]
The point is, you could attribute MH/psychological reasons to everything negative.

The simple fact is, some people love their lives, are really happy and enjoy overly processed food too often.

It really is as simple as that….

I’m married to a Japanese man and am finding a lot of comments on this thread… problematic.

The idea that food in Japan is innately less fattening is one that I don’t agree with. Saying that, there is a lot of support for healthier choices and this helps sway people’s decisions towards what to eat.
For instance, it is assumed that children love broccoli. The assumption is pervasive and widespread and it turns out that broccoli is a popular food amongst children. Japanese style curry (“sweet mouth” non-spicy) is extremely popular amongst kids and this lets parents drop in lots of “hidden vegetables” which allows those children to get used to eating them, increasing the chances of them being willing to eventually eat those vegetables naked without a curry sauce. Kids’ favourite okonomiyaki is a kind of pancake filled with immense amounts of cabbage. And there’s also the ideal food to instil a lifelong love of vegetables: soba or udon noodles with vegetable tempura. Yum! Since the expectation is that children will willingly devour these foods, the majority do and none of their peers point out the oddness of them liking these things.
Turns out that English children also love Japanese (sweet mouth) curry, and and cream stew and okonomiyaki, at least most of the ones I’ve fed these dishes to did.

Main change a family can make in order to influence children’s eating habits at home if they want to imitate Japanese domestic culture is for the children to see adults eating the same healthy choices they eat and getting genuine excitement and enjoyment from the food.

Personally, I never liked broccoli, so I made sure DD was introduced to it by DH. He’d prepare it and bring it to DD as if it was a treasure to be shared in the way another family might crack open a box of Quality Street. With broccoli being served as a highly anticipated treat it’s no surprise that she adores the stuff. Same with fruit, we’d get the very best we could afford and make a huge fuss of it and treat it like a luxury item, cooing with pleasure at each mouthful as we ate it together.
Better be honest, though. A child knows when you’re lying. And if you’re not enjoying your selection of healthy choices probably best to find ones you do enjoy. Jarred baby food really isn’t a thing in Japan.
Once children are at school it can get harder. First of all, vegetables just aren’t cooked well (generally) in British school canteens. Then there’s peer pressure, which is present in Japan as well as here. In elementary/primary schools in Japan where kids take in packed lunches the scrutiny can be pretty toxic, but it might be as much for not being cute/fashionable enough as for it being too beige and lacking in colourful vegetables. Kids here in England can also be hounded for having food that doesn’t conform to the local consensus. Very easy at this point for the home eating culture to be undone.
At secondary/high schools in Japan school lunches take over and many schools require much more direct participation with serving and clearing meals and teachers commonly eat what the pupils eat with the pupils. In England School lunch times become almost incidental, skipping meals is common place or kids wolf down their meals in order to attend clubs/activities. And this is the point in this country where snacking as a habit becomes permanently ingrained. Once you become used to taking most of your calories in between meals it doesn’t really matter how healthy those meals are. And snacking also helps you stay in denial about how much you are actually eating.

I’ll say that the biggest difference between how Japanese people and and how English people eat is the snacking and the attention paid to what you put in your mouth.

If you want an instant habit to help you control this, take on saying “itadakimasu” before eating any kind of food. See it as a mini meditation. It is literally “I am receiving” and whilst saying it pause and think of the effort of everything and everyone involved in getting that food to your hands and mouth. It will help if you have somewhere nice to sit and a healthy drink to hand also rather than in the car or walking back from the high street.
Another factor that you won’t see much discussed is that, for a lot of us mums, public nudity is commonplace in Japan. It’s very normal to go to places where you’ll hang out with your young children amongst other women, stark naked, for an hour or two. Mountain hiking and the toll on my knees is the biggest incentive for me not to carry much weight on my trips to Japan, but I’d be lying if I didn’t confess that the public baths also help when deciding not to have that extra chocolate bar once my plane tickets to Tokyo have been purchased. Saying that, you do see how silly the idea that Japanese people have thinner bones is when you attend a neighbourhood sento ☺️

This is such a typical competitive undereating thread for the Mumsnet wannabe head girls! You've even got the usual suspects chomping at the bit to list their weights, bmis, vital statistics and tiny builds! This thread should be deleted, it's perfect fodder for the eating disordered.

Is there a psychological difference between us and Japan/South Korea?

Nope, physiological and cultural differences.

East Asia hasn't had the high carb, high fat modern diet the west has for as long. They are on a similar trend in terms of height and weight gains to the UK and US over the last 100 years, just less far along.

East Asians can't (on average) carry as much fat safely as Europeans, they develop health complications like diabetes at lower weights, so presumably will act on those triggers.

@hamsterchump

This is such a typical competitive undereating thread for the Mumsnet wannabe head girls! You've even got the usual suspects chomping at the bit to list their weights, bmis, vital statistics and tiny builds! This thread should be deleted, it's perfect fodder for the eating disordered.

Stop slim shaming.

Have you ever been to America?

@OataLot Lol, don't worry these posters can't be shamed, they're far too proud, that's why they take any opportunity to shoehorn those kinds of details in wherever they can. Most slim, healthy people don't obsess about weight and measurements and aren't desperate to compare them at any opportunity. This thread is so toxic.

@iloveeverykindofcat that’s interesting! I’ve noticed a huge variation in body type amongst the arab community, one of my best friends is saudi and she and all her family are of a bigger build, (not overweight) just taller and more voluptuous, yet my yemeni friends are definitely (generally speaking) more petite in stature but still quite curvy. You reckon there’s geographic variance. Another of my friends is married to a Moroccan man (he’s v tall and v slim) and she’s always had it in the neck from Hvs about how slim her daughter is, she’s a petite little thing even though quite chunky at birth xx

@hamsterchump

This is such a typical competitive undereating thread for the Mumsnet wannabe head girls! You've even got the usual suspects chomping at the bit to list their weights, bmis, vital statistics and tiny builds! This thread should be deleted, it's perfect fodder for the eating disordered.

You do realise it's only undereating if they're underweight or the low end of healthy bmi...

Some people think these are undereating, when actually it's them that are overeating.

Yeh, who is listing a limited diet or underweight BMI? Only skim read it tbh.

@bestbefore

Have you ever been to America?

Yes, and it very distressing sometimes.

They don't though, the likes of slimming world and weight watchers will happily sell you their own branded uber-processed pigswill bars, shakes, muffins etc.

@mammajustkilledagnat

The last time I was back in the UK a couple years ago, pre-Covid the most noticeable difference to where I come from was the number of people walking around filling their faces with food, and the astounding number of possibilities for buying cheap on the go food. Where I live it is just not done to walk around eating or drinking and there are fewer take away foods sold. The imploring ads to 'treat yourself' to this or that were everywhere and I can totally understand it would be difficult to resist that temptation.

It used to be like this in the UK. When I was at school we weren’t supposed to eat food walking to and from school in our uniform. We had the odd chocolate bar but if we’d been caught eating takeaways there would have been punishments.

@bestbefore

Have you ever been to America?

The thing about obesity the USA and I think in the UK is that it often appears self-segregated, you get groups of larger people who might have the occasional slim person and groups of slim people, who might have fat friend in the group.

I remember going to LA and Vegas in 2014 and if you went to certain places, the trendy bars (I am not trendy, but we went there to see what they were like) there were groups that were very split, there was he fit and/or slim group, with maybe one overweight person in the group and there were groups of overweight people, on the beach, in the bars, in the hotels and pools in Vegas etc.

I wonder if that has an impact on people's perception, if large people group together then they will perceive their obesity as normal and if fit people group together they will perceive fit as normal, with the different group being somewhat "othered".

@hamsterchump

This is such a typical competitive undereating thread for the Mumsnet wannabe head girls! You've even got the usual suspects chomping at the bit to list their weights, bmis, vital statistics and tiny builds! This thread should be deleted, it's perfect fodder for the eating disordered.

It is not really though.

It is an interesting discussion covering so far what is healthy, what is not, is there actually a problem, what might the problems be, and how do they do it elsewhere.

I have not seen any list their weights, bmis, vital statistics and tiny builds! Would you mind pposting them? I missed it!

Part of it is the type of food - my friend lived in Japan with a Japanese wife for a few years and told me they have rice and veg for breakfast. Wherever we have (cereal / bread/ cooked) it’s unlikely to be as low fat as that

@1940s

She isn't massively overweight. But I'm highlighting our food culture / food poverty.

She will eat biscuits all day then put cheap totally unnutritious oven food in and binge in the evening. So she's having a pretty big calorie day on shite food.

Our version of cheap ''peasant'' food is highly processed / fatty / salty. Other cultures living on the breadline tend to be more in touch with rice / beans / cheap meat cuts and vegetables. We don't have that food culture as a rule

@WorraLiberty I said she's not massively overweight but she's trending to be with the food she eats yes

I've really struggled with my weight since having children. I think it's a combination of less time to exercise, eating on the run, high carb diet - as tired/time poor, impact of shift work and changing metabolism as I get older.

I can't run any longer due to injury, but even when I used to regularly run 10k and was the slimmest I've ever been I never went below a size 10 (this was in the early 2000's) so definitely build and genetics has something to do with it. I'm a lot bigger now sadly, but working on it - despite cookie of doom today.

@Leftbutcameback

Part of it is the type of food - my friend lived in Japan with a Japanese wife for a few years and told me they have rice and veg for breakfast. Wherever we have (cereal / bread/ cooked) it’s unlikely to be as low fat as that

This is part of the issue with the diet in the UK though, we have some incredibly high fat meals, but also little understanding of food. You said that cereal is unlikely to be as low fat as rice and veg, but cereal with skimmed milk will have almost no fat, even with semi or whole will only have a little bit of fat in it, probably not dissimilar to rice and veg.

A lot of people also have the attitude that fat is bad, when it is not, too much fat is bad, but our bodies need some fat, it helps us feel full for longer (although not as much as protein does). Things like low fat mayonnaise are often worse for us than the full fat versions (and taste awful), low fat meals are often worse as they are crammed with processed starches as thickeners, binders and to give it some texture etc. We had and to an extent still have a whole chunk of the diet industry based on "low fat" and "no fat".

Does the NHS have something to do with it? Something which was created with such noble and idealistic aims, but which has possibly had the ultimate effect of people knowing they don't need to worry too much about their weight/health because it will be looked after for free?

US has an obesity issue but people in European countries with single-payer health care systems are slimmer than UK.

We’re not taught to listen to our bodies- so can’t identify being full, tired, sad etc and then eat too much to compensate when maybe more sleep/ less stress or other ways to emotional health would be better.

The amount of people who are exhausted and powering through using treats or comfort food/drink is very large. And then that becomes a baseline- if you cope with food, you have to go even bigger to celebrate with food.

And once you’re insulin resistant, which happens at only a bit overweight, your appetite increases and energy decreases as your body tries to maintain what it sees as extra weight needed to be stored for the stressful now and future.

Once you’re in this cycle it’s hard to break and becomes your lifestyle and habit. Coupled with metabolism changes with age (and hormonal changes in both men and women - more fat= more estrogen = easier to gain and harder to lose fat)

Then society and culture says you’re morally lacking for being overweight and it becomes/continues to be psychologically harder to lose weight…

Then the consumerist for-profit industries say “never mind love, might as well have the crisps as you’re already fat and it will make you feel better”

And here we all are in our size XXL knickers, feeling shit about it and distracting/rewarding/punishing ourselves with endless binge and lose cycles

I would never eat junk daily nor have a takeaway twice a week. I am still overweight though lol.