MIL's neighbour yelled at DH tonight

[NeighbourIsAJudgementalBitch]

Sorry this might be a long one, have NC also.

MIL has never been a very hygienic person – DH has said that this has been the case for as long as he can remember. The house he grew up in, where she still lives on her own (FIL died a decade ago) isn’t clean at all, is full of junk, smells badly of smoke etc and MIL herself never washes. DH plus his two sisters have tried in the past to speak to her about this and tried to help with tidying but it was always met with ‘just leave it!’ or ‘why are you bothering to do that?’ She fell out with SIL once when she got the vacuum out and tried to hoover the filthy carpet. It might be worth point out that Mil doesn’t have a great relationship with any of her children as she is a bit of a difficult character. I have minimal contact with her for reasons I wont go into here.

For the past year or so MIL’s health has been declining, she started having falls and issues with incontinence, then had a heart attack earlier this year and has since developed heart failure. When she was in hospital recovering DH and one of his sisters were in her house almost daily to clean the place up. It took about three weeks and he hardly spent any time with the kids or myself as he was so occupied with this (I didn’t grudge it, I knew it needed done). She now has carers coming in daily. DH works set days on a hospital ward and on his days off he will go and get her food shopping, give things a tidy up etc. If she has a hospital appointment and he is off work that day he takes her to them.

MIL has quite a few neighbours who have helped her out with various things over the years when DH hasn’t been able to, and one of these neighbours took MIL to a hospital appointment today. She had a fall at the hospital, went to the A&E as she hurt her shoulder and now has a sling on her arm – she was recommended to stay overnight for observation but refused. Once she got home, the neighbour called DH, who was just finishing work. He drove over there only for the neighbour to start having a real go at him, accusing him of being neglectful and it was a disgrace that he allowed his mum to live in a filthy house. Apparently this neighbour has been doing a lot for MIL (which DH didn’t realise) and she said to him she’s struggling to keep doing it and is angry that it’s ‘all been left to her’. But DH didn’t even know she had been helping her so much! Neighbour then said he can’t go off and leave his mum on her own tonight.

DH called to tell me this and he sounded upset on the phone – he doesn’t do well with confrontation. He was supposed to be working at 730am tomorrow but has called in to say he will be staying overnight with MIL and won’t make it in. I’m so pissed off at this neighbour and her judgement of my DH. She lives in a very naice middle class bubble where things like this don’t happen to her family so probably doesn’t ‘get it’ that MIL has chosen to live this way for years despite her children trying to offer help and speak to her about it. Was she being unfair on DH? I think this might be the start of a further decline with MIL, not sure if she will end up in a care home at this rate.

Thanks everyone. DH is now home, he looks exhausted.

What would happen if say, DH and sister decided they couldnt do it any more and called SW to say they were in a crisis situation, and MIL refuses to go to any kind of long term care environment?

StopGo it's really shitty that you have all these people judging, I bet they have never found themselves in this situation so really don't have a clue about the realities of looking after an unwell, infirm or plain old reluctant help-refusing relative!

If the deem her to have capacity then she will be allowed to carry on - rightly so as she’s allowed to make bad choices of she so wishes.

That however is not your DHs problem.

I feel for your DH, OP. We had similar with an elderly uncle who evidently wasn't coping but outright refused all help. SS told us that if he had capacity to say no, there was nothing they could do. We didn't live locally, so we phoned his doctor who visited him on several occasions but couldn't get him to engage.

Then the neighbour (who was a police officer) phoned and told me that he (my uncle) couldn't go on like this and I told her all we had tried to do and asked her if she had any further ideas as to what else I could do or who else I could contact, but she didn't. She just repeated that he couldn't go on like that - hell, I agreed, but WHAT CAN I DO? I asked her to contact me again if she had any further ideas, but of course she never did.

I asked the GP what he thought might be the outcome and he said in his experience, people who refuse all help but can't manage eventually had some sort of crisis - a fall in the house or something - and then things tended to be put in place when they evidently couldn't manage when they were discharged from hospital (presumably with relatives saying they couldn't give sufficient support). I fear that this is what will have to happen with your MIL.

If you say you cannot help the sw will need to speak with the care agency', therapist and mil to tell her that she is unsafe, needs more help and if she refuses and has capacity they will either just carry on as they are and put in a safeguarding concern. If she doesnt open the door, carers dont have keys and there is no keysafe they may ask the ndn if they have a key, if not they may call the emergency services to gain access. She cannot claim for that on insurance. They arrange to make the door safe. Either she gets taken to hospital or stays at home depending on whats happened and what she agrees to. In the pre covid days she would be in hospital or a emergency carehome waiting for assessments to take place but that may have changed.

So MIL has broken a bone at her shoulder joint, she is in pain with this but refusing medical intervention. DH has bought her over the counter co-codamol but it looks like it's not strong enough.

He asked her if he felt she needed to go to a long term care environment as she's not coping but was pretty non-committal, was the usual shrug of the shoulders then not much else from her.

He's called his boss who seems sympathetic and has said he can have more time off if needed but tbh their good will will only last so long, they are already quite short staffed.

Im not sure if SIL will manage emotionally with helping - her DH died tragically almost two years ago and its evident that she's not fully coping herself since it happened. Plus, it turns out that she is being threatened with redundancy so she has a lot on her plate to be dealing with at present.

She may have been given stronger painkillers if she had stayed in hospital. Shoulder pain can be very bad. It also causes constipation and can make some people a bit confused. I would give her gp a call to let them know. They may not even know she has a fracture. She may have a discharge letter from the hospital and a follow up appt which the ndn must not agree to getting involved in. The ndn has bought this all to light which is the best thing even though its caused upset.

I do agree that your husband should speak to MIL's neighbour-to at least say thank you and that he had no idea that they were doing so much.

Perhaps ask her to stop so that it can be ascertained exactly what help/care MIL needs.

He needs to step back really. She is actively choosing to do this to herself.

There is nothing he can do to help her unless she allowed it. It isn’t his fault or even his responsibility to pander to another adult who simply won’t make better choices.

If he wishes he can speak to the neighbour and explain that she is refusing his help and social services are going to assess her capacity but if they deem her capable then he will be able to do nothing further really.

Firstly, your DH owes the neighbour nothing. Your MIL may, but your DH doesn’t. There isn’t time for guilt in this situation. If your MIL refuses help, and literally can’t move on her own, call an ambulance for her. Your DH and siblings can’t risk their own families and careers for someone who won’t help themselves. Everyone is making their own choices here. There is no should! Neighbour didn’t have to help, MIL didn’t have to get into this state, you and DH can ask for help from outside agencies and not ruin your own lives.

Thanks everyone, I'll update tomorrow after DH has spoken to SW. He's also going to contact her GP first thing about better pain meds.

Foolsrule she definitely can't get up off the chair or out bed on her own, plus if she were to try the stairs on her own she would likely fall down them. But she's saying no to hospital, so we wouldn't want to waste paramedics time coming out when she won't leave the house anyway - they're already so stretched as it is.

I think honest opening a route to honest communication with the neighbour would be a good option here. Passing on numbers so that she can directly contact your DH and siblings so she doesn’t get caught for meeting your MILs needs. And give her some context and background to the issues that have arisen over the years.

I agree with other that very likely your MIL has learned to be incredibly manipulative to get her needs met from wherever she can but also in a way that allows her to hoard, not to wash etc. Which her family are probably going to try to prevent.

I suspect there might be for neurological differences in your MIL maybe sensory issues and executive function issues as well as rigidity and difficulties with facing up to needs to change.