MIL's neighbour yelled at DH tonight

[NeighbourIsAJudgementalBitch]

Sorry this might be a long one, have NC also.

MIL has never been a very hygienic person – DH has said that this has been the case for as long as he can remember. The house he grew up in, where she still lives on her own (FIL died a decade ago) isn’t clean at all, is full of junk, smells badly of smoke etc and MIL herself never washes. DH plus his two sisters have tried in the past to speak to her about this and tried to help with tidying but it was always met with ‘just leave it!’ or ‘why are you bothering to do that?’ She fell out with SIL once when she got the vacuum out and tried to hoover the filthy carpet. It might be worth point out that Mil doesn’t have a great relationship with any of her children as she is a bit of a difficult character. I have minimal contact with her for reasons I wont go into here.

For the past year or so MIL’s health has been declining, she started having falls and issues with incontinence, then had a heart attack earlier this year and has since developed heart failure. When she was in hospital recovering DH and one of his sisters were in her house almost daily to clean the place up. It took about three weeks and he hardly spent any time with the kids or myself as he was so occupied with this (I didn’t grudge it, I knew it needed done). She now has carers coming in daily. DH works set days on a hospital ward and on his days off he will go and get her food shopping, give things a tidy up etc. If she has a hospital appointment and he is off work that day he takes her to them.

MIL has quite a few neighbours who have helped her out with various things over the years when DH hasn’t been able to, and one of these neighbours took MIL to a hospital appointment today. She had a fall at the hospital, went to the A&E as she hurt her shoulder and now has a sling on her arm – she was recommended to stay overnight for observation but refused. Once she got home, the neighbour called DH, who was just finishing work. He drove over there only for the neighbour to start having a real go at him, accusing him of being neglectful and it was a disgrace that he allowed his mum to live in a filthy house. Apparently this neighbour has been doing a lot for MIL (which DH didn’t realise) and she said to him she’s struggling to keep doing it and is angry that it’s ‘all been left to her’. But DH didn’t even know she had been helping her so much! Neighbour then said he can’t go off and leave his mum on her own tonight.

DH called to tell me this and he sounded upset on the phone – he doesn’t do well with confrontation. He was supposed to be working at 730am tomorrow but has called in to say he will be staying overnight with MIL and won’t make it in. I’m so pissed off at this neighbour and her judgement of my DH. She lives in a very naice middle class bubble where things like this don’t happen to her family so probably doesn’t ‘get it’ that MIL has chosen to live this way for years despite her children trying to offer help and speak to her about it. Was she being unfair on DH? I think this might be the start of a further decline with MIL, not sure if she will end up in a care home at this rate.

@user1471538283

Whilst my DM didnt live like this I am sure she said horrible things about me to others. I bet your MIL has been doing the same and her neighbor is at her wits end.

I would ignore it. You know you are doing all you can. If her neighbor cannot continue the support then she stops it.

Same here. I busted a gut for my mum and she slagged me off to neighbours, family, carers, hcps, whilst my sibling took a huuuuge step back and somehow remained the golden child.

Your mil is capable yet is choosing to live like this. Whilst neighbours and dh are supporting her to choose this, nothing will change. I've seen it on here often enough - sometimes you have to take step back for them to realise that they can't cope and do need additional care.

@MushMonster

You can get someone to help with the cleaning though. Most likely a different company to the carers she has now, but still through the same approach. At least here, the council can put you in contact with them, and you get that help too. It used to be free, but now you have to pay a nominal amount. It is worthy though, it is not much at all. Check if your MIL is entitled to it.

This can work, but also some people can refuse help or become unpleasant. Our GM was very unpleasant to her extremely kind carers and cleaner, and often told them to leave things that DF would do, but he was in a different country so entirely unable to. Luckily they were good at reporting back to him so he could help unwind what she'd said. Including reporting back to social services that he had visited and no, he was certain the carer was not beating her as she reported etc etc. Difficult people do not become compliant when they develop additional needs.

I think you should be nice to the neighbour OP, it isn't her fault she's been fed a pack of lies and she's been trying to do the right thing. Sometimes people can come across a bit snappy if they're worried. I'd thank her for her help with some flowers and gently let her know the family have been trying hard to get MIL the support she needs, but get a lot of pushback from her, so while any help is appreciated to please call rather than feel obliged to fill the gap when it's inconvenient.

The solutions very much depend on what you can afford. A care home can quickly become a very expensive permanent solution, because people lose skills. That may be needed, but it depends on MIL's overall health. A raft of carers and cleaners is expensive and can still lead to gaps in care, as well as the risk of her refusing help, so that will still leave a lot of pressure on DH. A small assisted living flat set out on one floor with ability to call for help and carers may be a good halfway option, but the siblings may have a battle to get her to accept it and sell her house to pay for it. Good luck with it all.

To the pp who asked if I felt the neighbour really was a judgemental bitch, I think I just made this username up in the heat of the moment and was very angry about how she spoke to my DH but I can definitely see her side - someone does definitely need to speak to her to gauge exactly how much she has been helping as that's unclear.

With regards to the shopping issue I mentioned a bit upthread, that might be the tip of the iceberg, for all we know, MIL may have asked for help but not been clear that DH was going to do it on a more conveniently agreed day, so the neighbour is left with the impression that her children are not even doing as much as her food shop and feels she has to step in. So a wrong impression of her family has been formed in the neighbour's mind.

Agreed EnrouteNOTenroute, capacity is the key here and MIL still seems to have it as much as we are sure that we can be.

I really don't know what we will do tomorrow - I've not spoken to DH yet today, I've sent him odd messages to ask questions here and there but I don't want to bombard him, though I do think that his sister should maybe be there tomorrow, I think she is still currently WFH and MIL has wi-fi I'm pretty sure.

Definitely bring your neighbour up to speed and then promptly tell her to keep her beak out.

Indeed Stackycups! I think I'll speak to DH when I can about whether any of them will contact her for a chat, if not it might fall to me which will then mean a letter as im not keen to speak face to face to her for reasons mentioned upthread.

If I make it to work tomorrow I might talk to my colleagues about this - I work in a hospital alongside physios and OTs so will get their take on it. I might also repost this thread to Elderly Parents (a section I never thought I would ever post on as my own parents are no longer with us!)

Stackycups - so does telling the neighbour to keep her beak out include telling her to stop the various chores and support that she has kindly been providing? I’m really surprised at the criticism of the neighbour tbh - she could easily have declined to help but instead she’s been doing all sorts of chores and assuming a high level of responsibility with hospital runs etc. OP might not have asked her to do this, but knew the situation and allowed it to continue.

I’m afraid your DH needs to pull right back, this situation is only going to get worse and your Mil won’t get the full help she needs if they think she has family on standby.
It could destroy your DH, mentally and physically, don’t let him feel guilty for having to step down - it’s for everyone’s benefit.
We were in a similar situation (minus the neighbour) with my late FiL 18 months ago, DH was working 12 hour shifts then shared care with his furloughed Sister, it damn near destroyed their relationship (Sil’s behaviour was appalling at times, she simply could not accept that FiL was dying).

@Motnight

I too wonder whether the neighbour has been providing a huge amount of support, with MIL saying that she gets no help from anyone else.

This is precisely what my MIL would say, despite 4 of us visiting every day at various times because she refused to allow care agency staff to do anything. Goodness knows what the neighbours thought, they usually glared at us every time we saw them! Nothing we could do, MIL was judged to have capacity.

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean my posts to come over as so harsh towards you OP. I’m very sorry you’re in this position and well done for looking out for your DH because it sounds awful for him.
It’s just it reads to me as though the neighbour has been kind for a long time and has just blown a gasket - informed by who knows what tall tales your MIL might have told her. It would be a shame to fall out with her in the heat of the moment on both sides when she has been a support in the past.

I think it's reasonable to assume that as you knew little/nothing about the neighbour helping, she knows little/nothing about what your DH and his siblings do. MIL is playing one off against the others.

I would go and thank NDN for all that she had done, with some flowers and then make sure she is fully aware of the situation and reassure her that she can/should ring you when ever she thinks necessary.

Longer term, it sounds as though MIL may be needing to move into a more caring environment.

Some people like playing the victim. Nice people (like the neighbour) dont necessarily question everything they are told - so if someone tells you how awful their children are to them, or how they dont help, you may believe it. I do care stuff for my step dad every day but none of the people who go into the house (cleaner, gardener) know that because they dont see it. I think you are quite right to tell her what your DH actually does.

I sympathize op, I can well see this situation panning out for my siblings and me as mum gets olders. She chooses to live in a hoarders pigsty. It has taken me 20 years of adult life since my dad died to disengage from trying to "sort her out" and I've finally realised that she has to accept responsibility for her own life. Trouble is time isn't on our side, and whilst she is fine now in her early 70s, mobile and independent when it does it start becoming an issue that we have to sort out for her? None of her DC live near enough to help and if neighbours went to her house they'd probably be just as judgy over us and how we are not often there. What they don't realise is it's too painful to go over and see my childhood home neglected, her lovely things getting ruined and the amount of money she has wasted on unnecessary "stuff".

I would be wanting to put the neighbour straight in your case and perhaps it could be you that does it if your dh and sils can't. Give them "permission" to not offer to help as well. There is no need for them to step in as the family do care and that mil has been manipulating the situation to her advantage. I couldn't haven't dh (or brothers) thought badly of by people who don't have all the facts.

So I've spoken to DH on the phone, he's waiting on his sister coming over so he can come home, she's going to stay there tonight and work from there tomorrow.

DH told me when he got up he realised his mum had been doubly incontinent so he got her cleaned up. When he pulled her bedsheets off he realised that she's obviously been having issues with this but not admitted to it. There was a waterproof mat thingy under the sheet that hadnt been there before and under that, obvious evidence of multiple soiling incidents. When DH asked her why she hadnt told him about this before, she did her usual response of shrugging, turning her head away and ignoring him. She is also refusing to sleep downstairs in the dining area. DH is having to help her out of bed and up out of the chair due to her broken humerus/clavicle/whatever it is and he already has the beginnings of a bad back starting previous to this. Just from speaking to him on the phone he sounded stressed

Op you seem so stressed to im a carer i advise you call the eldely social care team ask for a assesment.

Thanks mummapenguin20. DH felt sure the social workers number was somewhere in MILs house but can't locate it. I get the feeling it might have been the hospital SWs number, who aren't appropriate in this case, so I'll say to him that he should get the number off the community OT when he speaks to her tomorrow.

I think you definitely need a social services assessment. They will assess her needs re toileting, mobility, risk of falling etc. It sounds like they are quite high if she is soiling herself and has a broken bone from a fall (is that definitely true or just MIL saying it?)

Ultimately if she has full capacity she can refuse carers, downstairs sleeping, commode etc. And children may have to step back and wait for a (hopefully small) crisis to force her to accept her needs.

I would get all children to speak to neighbour and advise them if current situation re assessment of needs, worry she won't accept it and that you are trying to get her to accept carers. Make clear they she should not feel obliged to help and neighbour can call any of you at any time if she is concerned about your MIL behaviour, condition etc

If you google social care (followed by your city/town) you should find it, its not a quick process but as shes had hospital sw and ahe has ot you might get help faster. Is there a care plan in the house? That should have social workers number in

Write to the neighbour thanking her for her for all help but asking her to cease all further help tell her you will be
Contacting social services and report a sick elderly person who has no family support

The ndn has probably been told by mil that her family do nothing for her and has just about had enough. I would speak to ndn and explain that you are grateful for the help but it's not her responsibility at all. Call social services and ask for another assessment, the carers can also put in a concern to their manager which might help. If she has carers in there should be a careplan and daily records somewhere in the house with all relevant contacts.

Tbh I don't know what the situation is with the broken bone, she refuses to speak to DH about it. But she can't get out of bed on her own or get out her chair so will definitely need package of care increased - its currently twice a day for meals and meds prompt.

When she first came out of hospital carers were coming in more often, as they called DH at 8pm one evening to say she wasn't answering the door to them (turned out she was ignoring them as they turned up a few minutes later than her 'cut off' time), so its been scaled back at some point, when and why I dont know.

As the saying goes, especially on here in relation to in-laws, 'not my circus, not my monkeys'. However, its now having an impact on our family life so im finding myself getting dragged into this circus too.

nits and fleas () I pointed out to DH on the phone earlier that neighbour no doubt felt overly put upon and has been stressed with it all, he did admit that was no doubt the case but it seems he has no intention of ever speaking to her again. Maybe one of his sisters will. The one who is most likely to do this is down in London, she may come up but is very broke atm plus has other issues to deal with down there too.

She may have told the carers not to come wo often and that her neighbours and family help out plus there is such a shortage of homecare atm. Has anyone got poa or does she have full capacity. If she cannot even get out the chair on her own then either she gets more care, agrees to respite care or just has another fall, gets pressure sore, UTI, dehydration and ends up back in hospital. A keysafe would be better for the carers and emergency services to gain access but she might refuse this. The carers will see how much care she actually needs and hopefully put in a concern, dh moving her about jsnt safe for either of them and he can speak to adult safeguarding team at social services if he cant find out who her SW is. He needs to tell the community ot what has happened and that he cannot look after her.

The ndn needs to step back too, she could have refused to take mil home but maybe felt pressurised. It's going to be difficult but someone needs to tell ndn not to help anymore, it wont help in the long term and mil needs to actually be more realistic and take some responsibility for the situation she is in.

Honestly your DH does need to speak to the neighbour with a box of chocolates in his hands. He needs them on side and to understand the situation. As a neighbour who is in a similar situation it is easy to make judgments as you only get one side of the story. If they have been helpful then please thank them I should think they have also had enough. You need a social services assessment and if your MIL will not accept help then you need to be honest with her about what you and others are prepared to do. She needs to help herself.

I totally empathise with your DH. My DM is similar, she makes very poor life choices and so has frequent falls and multiple ambulance visits.

She has had many capacity assessments and is deemed to have capacity for her health and wellbeing.

I have been judged by her friends, neighbours, carers, doctors and paramedics. I have engaged with adult services but as she has capacity they have no interest or capacity to help.

I now have pulled right back and simply refer all complainers to adult services explaining that they are welcome to make safeguarding reports if they feel they need to.

Stay strong for your DH