MIL's neighbour yelled at DH tonight

[NeighbourIsAJudgementalBitch]

Sorry this might be a long one, have NC also.

MIL has never been a very hygienic person – DH has said that this has been the case for as long as he can remember. The house he grew up in, where she still lives on her own (FIL died a decade ago) isn’t clean at all, is full of junk, smells badly of smoke etc and MIL herself never washes. DH plus his two sisters have tried in the past to speak to her about this and tried to help with tidying but it was always met with ‘just leave it!’ or ‘why are you bothering to do that?’ She fell out with SIL once when she got the vacuum out and tried to hoover the filthy carpet. It might be worth point out that Mil doesn’t have a great relationship with any of her children as she is a bit of a difficult character. I have minimal contact with her for reasons I wont go into here.

For the past year or so MIL’s health has been declining, she started having falls and issues with incontinence, then had a heart attack earlier this year and has since developed heart failure. When she was in hospital recovering DH and one of his sisters were in her house almost daily to clean the place up. It took about three weeks and he hardly spent any time with the kids or myself as he was so occupied with this (I didn’t grudge it, I knew it needed done). She now has carers coming in daily. DH works set days on a hospital ward and on his days off he will go and get her food shopping, give things a tidy up etc. If she has a hospital appointment and he is off work that day he takes her to them.

MIL has quite a few neighbours who have helped her out with various things over the years when DH hasn’t been able to, and one of these neighbours took MIL to a hospital appointment today. She had a fall at the hospital, went to the A&E as she hurt her shoulder and now has a sling on her arm – she was recommended to stay overnight for observation but refused. Once she got home, the neighbour called DH, who was just finishing work. He drove over there only for the neighbour to start having a real go at him, accusing him of being neglectful and it was a disgrace that he allowed his mum to live in a filthy house. Apparently this neighbour has been doing a lot for MIL (which DH didn’t realise) and she said to him she’s struggling to keep doing it and is angry that it’s ‘all been left to her’. But DH didn’t even know she had been helping her so much! Neighbour then said he can’t go off and leave his mum on her own tonight.

DH called to tell me this and he sounded upset on the phone – he doesn’t do well with confrontation. He was supposed to be working at 730am tomorrow but has called in to say he will be staying overnight with MIL and won’t make it in. I’m so pissed off at this neighbour and her judgement of my DH. She lives in a very naice middle class bubble where things like this don’t happen to her family so probably doesn’t ‘get it’ that MIL has chosen to live this way for years despite her children trying to offer help and speak to her about it. Was she being unfair on DH? I think this might be the start of a further decline with MIL, not sure if she will end up in a care home at this rate.

Not fair on your DH or any of her children. They have done their fair share of it all. The neighbour is putting their nose in what they should not, because they have no idea.
But, if they cleaned the house when she was in hospital, and she then got carers, are they not cleaning the house for her? Or are they only helping her with medication and baths and so on?
I hope she is not telling them not to tidy and clean too!

Caters don't have time to clean, but there shouldn't be too much mess if she has mobility issues.

Well said JuneOsborne

@NeighbourIsAJudgementalBitch

I'm not sure if we need to be speaking now to these helpful neighbours to say they shouldn't help her outdoors if she calls them for a lift to appointments - the neighbour likely got a massive fright and I don't want that inflicted on other people tbh, it's not fair on them.

I wouldn't tell them what they can and can't do - that is their choice to make.

I would focus on what l can do about the situation.

I.e contact the care services as you have done.

Contact the neighbours in writing outlining the situation, thanking them for their help whilst reiterating that they mustn't feel obliged to help.

I'd also pull back on DH staying there as that is not a long term solution and could quickly become one.

MIL has capacity to make her own decisions... however you don't have to enable those decisions when it severely impacts on your own lives.

Social care will not step up if they know you are helping

@NeighbourIsAJudgementalBitch do you really think the neighbour is a judgmental bitch, or maybe just at the end of her tether? From the additional information it sounds like you mil has been a demanding and possibly less than perfect neighbour for years, and this neighbour has probably had enough.
Sure, she shouldn’t have had a go at your DH but do you think maybe your MIL has been telling her that her son does nothing for her?
I’d drop off some thank you flowers and a card, politely suggesting that she calls you and your husband in future, rather than get sucked in by your mil, as you’ve got it sorted.

That's true Duckrace our council carers aren't contracted to clean. The carers have been good in the past at calling DH with any issues though and they were aware beforehand of the state of the house as a carer met DH at the house before MIL was discharged.

This thread is similar to a post not too long ago where the poster was the neighbour of the elderly neighbour and was increasingly being called to help out the elderly neighbour whilst the relatives did seemingly little. The consensus was that the poster wasn't responsible for their elderly neighbour and the relatives should step up.

Now, we have post from the relatives and the consensus seems to be that the elderly neighbour is responsible for themselves.

Personally, I think the relatives (who I assume are technically the next of kin) need to step up, either by doing more care themselves, or arranging for someone else to do the care. It really isn't the responsibility of the neighbour.

Sounds as if MIL won't get the help she needs until everyone steps back.

If she can't navigate her house without 24/7 supervision, perhaps she needs to be temporarily in care.

This situation is a big mess. The state cannot and will not provide enough help.

There is only one way forwards here and it’s a care home.

Re the neighbour, they have been excessively put upon by mil and are understandably trapped and furious. That’s not to say the bollocking your dh got was justified. It’s a situation in which everybody involved suffers.

You can get someone to help with the cleaning though. Most likely a different company to the carers she has now, but still through the same approach. At least here, the council can put you in contact with them, and you get that help too. It used to be free, but now you have to pay a nominal amount. It is worthy though, it is not much at all. Check if your MIL is entitled to it.

Whilst my DM didnt live like this I am sure she said horrible things about me to others. I bet your MIL has been doing the same and her neighbor is at her wits end.

I would ignore it. You know you are doing all you can. If her neighbor cannot continue the support then she stops it.

@Puppermam

You're being really unfair to the neighbour sniping about her middle class bubble. It's not her responsibility to spend so much time looking after MIL and she's clearly resentful of feeling like if she doesn't keep an eye on her nobody else will. Whatever your dh and his siblings are doing, clearly it's not enough and it's time to look into more help for MIL whether she wants it or not. Contact social services and ask for a needs assessment.

It’s all very well to say that, but not even SS can force anyone to have help - unless they’ve been officially deemed to lack mental capacity. It’s very common for people who evidently could really do with help refuse to let anyone in, and/or tell them that they don’t need any help, their son/daughter will do whatever is necessary.

MIL may have discharged herself on the grounds of there being help at home for her and of course who knows what she has been teiing the neighbour about who does/doesn't help her from the family?

After a stay in hospital a neighbour started doing a weekly shop for my parent.

What was(or maybe not!) surprising was my parent's attitude-well the neighbour was going anyway so in was no inconvenience!

Not the neighbours nor the DC responsibility to provide any care. Isn't this what we 'scrimp and save for' all our lives? Elderly people often say they don't need care but will allow their DC to do it, even though, and very many can afford, they don't want to pay! Saw this for years as a district nurse.
Step away, let a crisis develop and then MiL will live with the consequences of her choices.
If neighbour wants a different life, they too will have to make different choices.

I'm now worrying about the wider implications of this situation from a selfish POV.

Your husband is entitled to a carers assessment, where he can tell SS very clearly how much is is able and willing to do. He will, however, need to be very assertive!!

I think there is a gap between needing FT care, and these sorts of issues .ATM the neighbour is probably worried and feeling scared that she is helping out .Your poor DH though! I would say to his DS that she will have to come to MIL as your DH cant stay there when he has work! Agree full needs assessment needed .

She clearly needs a proper care assessment, but it's likely that if she has capacity and her care will be state-funded then a) she will get offered no more than 4xcarers/day at home rather than a care home and b) she will refuse care anyway and carry on playing off her neighbour against her family.

She refused to stay in hospital when offered. Does she expect DH to stay with her? or is he putting that on himself?

There are many many threads on the Elderly Parents board where the parents refuse paid for help and the children feel they have to sacrifice themselves to step in.

You have a choice. DH gives up a lot of family time to run around doing everything his mum wants, or everything he thinks his mum should want even if she doesn't want it.

Or DH and you step back, talk to social services (and the neighbour) and accept MIL is going to live and die the way she wants. Easier said than done I know.

@Maxstrong

The neighbour can just piss off. The responsibility for the quality of the relationship between a person and their children lies with that person and not their children. I get the impression your DH thinks she wasn't a good mother. Your DH does help her but he does not have to just because she is his 'mother'. Her neighbour should behave himself/herself.

If the neighbour is having to help, then it's become their business. If this situation had been the subject of a post by the neighbour, everyone would be up in arms about how the family should be doing more.

diddl I remembered yesterday about a couple of times recently where DH has been unable to get MIL's shopping on the regular day as he had other commitments so he called MIL to say something along the lines of "I can't do it on regular day but would such and such a day be ok?" She's replied that it's fine and when he has gone over to hers on the agreed day, she has said to him, "oh it's ok, judgy neighbour has done it for me!" I can recall twice that this has happened. There may be other times when she has called this woman before her own son to ask her to help her with things, but we don't know that for sure.

I think a care home might be best if her mobility is failing - SIL1 won't have her long term, SIL2 lives in London and there's no way I will have her under our roof (DH would agree with me!) plus we live in a two up two down with our 2DC and our house is elevated, we have 25 steps to our front door. What if she refuses a commode, a pendant alarm, extra carers? I can see her refusing a care home too. She owns her own home and its in a very desirable area so no issues with getting it sold to fund care despite the state it's in, but I can see her being difficult about that (as is her choice I know!)

Im worrying about DH's mental health too. He ended up on SSRIs when his father's health went downhill a decade ago - FIL died during the process of care home wrangling but he was so stressed during it all.

I think you’re being v harsh on the neighbour here. Your MIL and her family are lucky to have someone keeping an eye out when they have no responsibility to do so. It may be your MIL exaggerating, or it may be that she genuinely doesn’t have enough help and your neighbour is filling the gap. I can definitely see this from the neighbour’s POV and think you should be v careful about having a go given the kindness she has shown. Are you sure your MIL and her children have not been taking advantage of her good nature by turning a blind eye to the care needs that the neighbour has been meeting?

She was being unfair to your DH, yes.

But also she shouldn’t be having to step in.

Can your DH or SIL contact adult services for a care needs assessment?

I think it would be good for one of them to talk calmly to the neighbour, thank her for what she has done, explain the situation and say further help us being sought.

Have a good look at the Age UK website on care, also entitlement to Attendance Allowance etc.

I'm neutral about this.
I'd be totally upset about being scolded, too.

However,
It's good that neighbour has been trying to look out for & help the MIL. People should help each other.
I imagine I'd want a chat to happen with neighbour about how much you appreciate her efforts & how much the MIL has rebuffed attempts to help MIL. Agreed there needs to be a more structured way of helping MIL so that no one is too overwhelmed.

You have my sympathy op, my FIL sounds very similar

He lives in squalor, has tried to rewire his house and has ended up with wires coming out of walls. His sister was coming round to do some free cleaning every week, she asked him for petrol money and he refused saying he couldn’t afford it (despite being comfortable financially which we know as a fact), so she stopped coming. He tells people he never sees his kids even though my dp drives the 2hr journey there several times a year and takes him away for a weekend break a couple of times a year. He stays at our home a couple of times a year (though I have to make myself scarce because I can’t bear his company, whole other story). He puts on a lonely old man persona, when he was the one who moved there, and won’t pay for help despite being able to. Not even a cleaner.

How can you help people who don’t want to help themselves?!

My parent had a fall & was discharged to a fabulous care home for few weeks.

They loved it & asked when they could move in.

Sadly that one couldn't be afforded but when they did move to a care home they did enjoy it.

Carers/cleaner/laundry in every day, activities or just to sit in the lounge with others even if not interacting.

They were safe, warm, well fed & help immediately if a fall happened.

It was an absolute weight off my mind tbh.

@Puppermam

You're being really unfair to the neighbour sniping about her middle class bubble. It's not her responsibility to spend so much time looking after MIL and she's clearly resentful of feeling like if she doesn't keep an eye on her nobody else will. Whatever your dh and his siblings are doing, clearly it's not enough and it's time to look into more help for MIL whether she wants it or not. Contact social services and ask for a needs assessment.

The whole post is about how much they've tried to do and been refused.

Your post is incredibly unfair and unnecessary had you read it properly.