Daughter 5 saying sad/ shocking things.

[Chiffandbip]

My daughter (5) has been really emotionally deregulated recently especially towards bedtime.
She has always been very secure, intelligent, well behaved, straight forward, kind and light-hearted.

We bend over backwards to give her a wonderful, fun, safe and enjoyable life and her life is full of stability and predictability.

She started school in reception in September and (as I’m a reception teacher in a different school) I was prepared for her to change, to be exhausted and for her behaviour to change due to her becoming more peer oriented BUT... I was not prepared for her to be:

Refusing to do anything I ask of her.
Telling me she wishes she’d never been born.
Telling me she hates being a child.
Telling me she’s useless at everything (despite the fact she can already read, write and do difficult maths).
This evening she has pinched me, splashed me told me I’m stupid and seemed furious with me. I managed to stay calm until she pinched my under arm and a shouted “stop it” (it bloody hurt!) I’ve never shouted at her before and I’m really upset.
I don’t know what to do. She seems happy going into school and has plenty of friends and good relationships with all the adults.
Is it normal for children to say things like this? I’m really worried that she might have some kind of mental illness. I really didn’t think I’d be dealing with a child saying they wish they’d never been born at the age of 5.

Sounds a bit like me as child, I couldn’t explain how bad I felt when I was saying these things but I honestly couldn’t stop. I believe I have Pathological Demand Avoidance as well as Aspergers and ADHD. Your daughter sounds like she might have PDA at the very least

My 5 year old son sometimes says similar things - says he stupid, or describes himself as unkind. I know this is when he is looking for a lot of positive affirmation - so i quickly counter by saying ‘I think you’re the best’ etc.

There might be more to it for your daughter, but perhaps she just needs you to regularly remind her that she’s safe, and you love her. A bit of ‘love bombing’ might help. I think they can all go through phases of boundary testing, or acing out in their safe spaces!

And never mind your NCT friends, they will be going through their own phases of one thing or another at some point! They also might not be able to relate to having a child that can read/write and do maths at the age of 4!

Mine used to so this. Found school stressful but not so anyone would really notice. Bright and thoughtful and stressed by the chaos of school. It all came out at home. Let’s face it if you are a bright calm child then being in a class of thirty five year olds is madness!

DC1 was exactly as described above. Really needed (and still does) time to unwind.
I was devastated when I first heard 'I wish I was dead/I wish I hadn't been born' at a young age. Years later, I don't hear it as frequently but still do occasionally.

In our case tiredness bordering on exhaustion and being overwhelmed was/is the catalyst for such emotional outpourings.

My boy 5.5 going through similar. Has said twice when angry that he wants to die. I'm trying to set boundaries but do lots of live and cuddles. Its hard with 2 others. I will seek play therapy if it doesn't settle down. There was a family bereavement a few months ago which raised the subject of death since.
Temperament sensitive and easily cranky/tired.
I'm wondering about his diet. Wouldn't be great.
But of my 3, 2 are alike/high emotion etc. My dd who's older has matured well but still has overwhelm.
No answers sorry just that you're not alone and I'm still figuring it out too

"Emotionally deregulated"? "Mental illness"?

I don't know what the first phrase means, and I would raise an eyebrow at anyone (and especially a Reception teacher) labelling a child "mentally ill".

Mine are now adults, but there have been a lot of phases along the way, many of them very difficult to handle, and quite often upsetting.

Just keep on being stable and calm and loving, and keep a good eye on her in case anything starts to emerge which could explain it (all of this could equally be explained by "being a child"). In my experience, all children have their horrendous phases, but they're not always at the same ages.

My son at five was doing similar. A lot of self hatred (I’m stupid, I don’t have a brain like x y z), “I wish you didn’t exist” (directed at me), and a furious mood.

When I would praise him or say positive things he would get madder and say “stop it, you’re just ACTING”. He was obsessed with acting - any encouragement was “acting” and I couldn’t put a foot right in his eyes.

But he’s come out of it, he had to turn a corner with his reading and so much is now clicking into place and the behaviour is now positive.

Is she giving herself an inordinately hard time about not being able to understand everything? Have you had your autumn parent teacher meeting yet - wonder will that shed any light?

My daughter has been like yours for nearly a year now. She's not long 5, but in year 1. I swing between wanting to speak to her HV for support and desperately hoping it's a phase that we can manage/support her through.

She's great in school - kind, hard working, polite etc. Behind in some areas but she genuinely doesn't know that 👏🏻 school! But becomes unpredictable, provocative, angry, volatile and at times physically violent, sometimes even at the school gate. Hunger is a factor (today's after school snack included a roll, an oat bar, a yogurt, fruit and a current cake and was closely followed by tea!), and it is sometimes worse closer to bedtime. Teacher has no concerns, and has no suggestions for potential triggers. When I do get worries/etc out of her, it seems relatively minor (but obviously big in her mind or blown out of proportion).

She can relate to the book The Colour Monster, which is about different sorts of feelings, and how they all get muddled up. It's a beautiful pop up book. Otherwise I have no advice. I handle it badly far more often than I'd like. It's tough. I really really hope it's a phase!

Trying to get a fully-human and heartfelt response from you? Are you very 'regulated'? I would find that uncomfortable.

You sound so patient! One of mine had a hard time starting school, and two things helped: sharing a bed with him for the first term; and phasing him into full days. I understand if you're teaching, this may not be possible though. With us, it was forced upon us because one way my son showed his distress at starting school was by soiling himself, and school policy was that if this happened regularly he could not be in school full time. We worked with the school to phase him into full days, so for a while I collected him before lunch, then after lunch, then after lunchtime play, and finally he did full days. It took so much tension out of the situation.

I have a girl like this. She's 11 now and all her teachers have brought up her struggles with resilience. She's very hard on herself when she makes even the smallest mistakes, but minimises her achievements. It's a constant challenge to support her.

She did a kids mindfulness course when she was 8 and that made a huge difference to her ability to process negative or otherwise overwhelming moments. I'd recommend something like that - prob with you for now using books and other suitable resources. When she's a bit older you could look at a Mindfulness Ninjas type program.

My child's behaviour drastically changed in year 1. She was copying another child who was a difficult child with complex needs (I don't know what exactly) for some unknown reason she was testing out this behaviour on us. I thought she was finding a boundary, seeing where the invisible line was.
We changed school.
All fine now, lovely, happy, bright and well behaved child again!

Long way of saying, could she be imitated behaviours she has recently experienced for the first time.

That doesn't sound right , definitely meet with school

Forgot the main point of your post! Sorry.

My daughter has and continues to come out with some very specific phrases and language that were quite concerning for us as parents (not swearing, but negative language that we have never used at home). Probing during calm periods showed that she didn't always understand what these phrases/words mean. I have since found out that some of these phrases etc are regularly said/shouted by peers in her class.

I wonder does she feel left put that you are teaching peers but not her?

*out

Red flags everywhere.

Stop concentrating on how good you’ve been in the past and concentrate on what your child is telling you now.

Something is bothering her and she’s using shock language to get you to notice. You need to work out what is going on.

It could just be she’s imitating someone, but you need to rule that out.

Mine aren't that stage yet so no useful experience to share, so really just a handhold...
It sounds like you're doing a wonderful job. She is feeling safe to tell you and show you that this new exhausting place is challenging, and that she doesn't feel in control. She may be looking for your reassurance that feeling tired and overwhelmed is okay, and that you are still there to be the anchor. Just as you will have done when she was a toddler, you are teaching her that it is okay to have big feelings, that they come and go, and that you are a safe and accepting place for her to express those.

Please don't worry OP. I've changed my nickname for this as it's outing, but once my son said (age 3) "When I'm older I want to steal motorbikes and ride them around London". Then age 5-6: "I hate you mum, I even like psychopaths and murderers more than you!" He's a teen now and lovely!!

Talk to school for sure. It could be nothing and she may just be adjusting and finding it all a bit exhausting, or there may be something that you can monitor or help her with.

I was like this as a child and had undiagnosed neurodiversity. I was masking during the day and appearing to thrive, but the effort of it was totally overwhelming and would spill over at home.

You sound like you think she was a perfect child and you have given her a perfect life. That can’t be true. No wonder things are “deregulated”. Whatever that means.

See how she is during school break but I'd read it as she is very tired. I find this time year hardest they really need break are exhausted first few weeks after summer a big change. Even for children who go to full time child c care.
I've a child who gets negative like this when tired or very giddy never rests and winds down.
Good luck a few chilled out days will do you both good.

It is painful to hear and my DD was similar at that age. She is 11 now and is still a very anxious child but for the most part is very happy even if she has bouts of low confidence. It's upsetting to think your child isn't happy but its not a disaster it just means they need a bit of extra time and reassurance. Just keep listening to her and letting her express her feelings so you can help her make sense of them.

@Chiffandbip

Thank you, that’s good to hear. All of my NCT friends can’t relate to it at all. They’re kids don’t seem to spiral into doom as much as my DD has the propensity to do. I find it hard to to be upset by what she says but I don’t show it.

You sound a little highly strung.

I say this really kindly.

She is your daughter, not your pupil.

Stop 'bending over backwards' and start giving her a normal home life.

Stop teaching her to read, write and do difficult maths and start teaching yourself to be a responsive parent to her.

@Summerdayshaze

You sound like you think she was a perfect child and you have given her a perfect life. That can’t be true. No wonder things are “deregulated”. Whatever that means.

Yes, I agree with this. Ops post sounded like it was impossible for her perfect parenting to produce such issues. I suffer with anxiety but I’ve never known any such behaviours in my similarly aged child.