Daughter 5 saying sad/ shocking things.

[Chiffandbip]

My daughter (5) has been really emotionally deregulated recently especially towards bedtime.
She has always been very secure, intelligent, well behaved, straight forward, kind and light-hearted.

We bend over backwards to give her a wonderful, fun, safe and enjoyable life and her life is full of stability and predictability.

She started school in reception in September and (as I’m a reception teacher in a different school) I was prepared for her to change, to be exhausted and for her behaviour to change due to her becoming more peer oriented BUT... I was not prepared for her to be:

Refusing to do anything I ask of her.
Telling me she wishes she’d never been born.
Telling me she hates being a child.
Telling me she’s useless at everything (despite the fact she can already read, write and do difficult maths).
This evening she has pinched me, splashed me told me I’m stupid and seemed furious with me. I managed to stay calm until she pinched my under arm and a shouted “stop it” (it bloody hurt!) I’ve never shouted at her before and I’m really upset.
I don’t know what to do. She seems happy going into school and has plenty of friends and good relationships with all the adults.
Is it normal for children to say things like this? I’m really worried that she might have some kind of mental illness. I really didn’t think I’d be dealing with a child saying they wish they’d never been born at the age of 5.

[Itsokay2020]

Hang on, she’s five and you’ve never shouted at her? So, potentially, she’s lived behind rose tinted glasses and reality has bitten now that she’s at school and isn’t cocooned in a perfectly harmonious environment. Without doubt, your daughter (even at the tender age of five) will be exposed to things in Reception Class that are likely to be alien to her. That’s takes a considerable adjustment.

This is reality, you now need to coach and counsel her through the unwanted behaviour, the injustice of life at the age of five (and beyond), the fallings out, the requirement to share, the consequences, the compromises etc. The greatest gift we can give our children is resilience, more so now than ever, they will need it as they navigate life from childhood to adulthood.

[tigerinyourtank]

Children need to learn resilience through adversity. Not huge, traumatic adversity that takes professionals to sort out.

But they need to learn that they don't know everything. That parents are tired and crabby sometimes and won't always be at their beck and call. That they can find their own solutions to problems.

Back off. Honestly. Give her some space to learn away from you bending over backwards kind of direction.

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

Sorry OP I find your post odd - you sound like you put a lot of expectation on her and the language you use does not seem very warm. It may be that that you were trying to write this way for the thread but I would ask yourself whether you allow her to be a child. She may not have an outlet for her emotions that is pushing her to speak in this way to try to get your attention. This is absolutely not a criticism but a suggestion to consider how much focus/cuddles etc you give her that she leads entirely. Do you let her regress sometimes and be your little baby again? Do you just hold her for a long time when she is tired or overwhelmed. I think it is an easy pattern to fall into to think they are all grown up when maybe she just wants to be cradled like a baby for a little while and cuddled.

[tigerinyourtank]

x-posted with itsokay!

[Pippy1900]

When my DD was 5 and in Reception I had exactly the same behaviour. She wanted independence- I know it seems strange, but I started to make her have little tasks to be responsible for. Even as simple as giving her the choice between two different meals or two different outfits. I too
am a Teacher, so researched all the child
Psychology books I could find. I have only ever found the info relevant to us - was wanting to feel independent. She is in a safe, fulfilled family, played, had friends, great relationship with the grandparents etc. For us the independence did work! I have been mindful of it over the last 5 years and when she acts up, I do check myself to make sure I have letting her express her desires and needs.

[billy1966]

OP,

If you collect her from school by car, start going for a small extendend spin around the area, her in the back, no looking at you.

Start asking her questions like.

Best thing that happened today
Worst thing that happened..
Funniest thing that happened..
Saddest thing...
Who was the best behaved
Who was the worst
Etc.

Be very calm and non descript in your replies."nice, oh, really, ok, wow"

This tends to be a very good way to hear exactly what is going on.

I would be concerned if she was saying these things on a regular basis.
I would want to know the source of her negativity.

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

I’d say if she is saying that she wishes she had never been born what she is trying to say is ‘I am scared about growing up and what this grown up world wants involves, I need you to give me you attention and comfort’. Cut out all the activities you organise for her and spend as much time as you can close to her.

[Pippy1900]

Looking at the previous post, I would also agree that even though she wanted independence she still wants and wants lots of hugs and cuddles and fun. Maybe this is the first time she has realised that she is t the centre of everyone’s world, like she is at home. Some children may be better than her at stuff - could be as simple as chanting a rhyme on the playground! I tried hard to build my daughter’s resilience too - probably the hardest job any parent has!

[Itsokay2020]

@tigerinyourtank indeed! I cringe when I hear grown ups taking of mental health issues in 5 year olds... far too much ‘adult’ talk and phrases within earshot of little minds will cause untold damage. Stop, let children be children and stop projecting onto them!!

[OnwardsAndSideways1]

One of mine used to say terrible things from about 5-8 and I used to really wonder if it was normal. I even thought about posting about it on here but didn't because everyone seemed shocked at even the hint of anything taboo being said (death/dying/I'll kill you type stuff). I have no idea why she was like it but she did use to bottle her emotions up and then they would come out in spectacular fashion, she had tantrums like toddlers have til she was about 8!

I agree with whoever suggested the 3 good things/3 bad things/3 interesting things type suggestions to get her chatting about her day.

I also wonder if raising your voice is really so terrible, sorry but if someone pinched me I blinking well would shout at them, seems she's trying for a reaction there.

I can't say whether these things are 'normal' but they certainly do occur because young bright kids often know which shocking/awful things to say to upset you. All I can say is that my dd turned out to be a lovely teenager and not nearly as moody as some, so who knows where it all went!

[me4real]

I'd imagine it's just a transition/adjustment thing. Am sure she'll be ok. x

[Pantsomime]

I’ve skipped a few pages but used to say I wished I’d never been born when I was in primary and felt things were really unfair and couldn’t understand why some children just seemed ( from a child’s view) to have everything they ever wanted and I never did. Do explore it a bot deeper but it could just be the imbalance in life staring to dawn on her, we aren’t all the same and materially don’t have the same things

[BiLuminous]

My son does this sometimes. He says he wants to die and is going to run in front of a car etc. He has epilepsy which causes him some emotional & behavioural difficulties (suspect adhd) so Ive assumed its that.

[BiLuminous]

Also, i resolve this through connection usually. I make him feel special. I give him control of play or reading together. He often will then tell me why he felt bad

[Mollymalone123]

This and the Xmas terms always seem to be the worst ones for behaviour-it is such a long term snd I expect she is over tired.It all sounds quite normal to me.Children change as they grow up and encounter different people and situations.Your DD won’t always be ‘sensible’ etc. She is after all, very young and it feels from your post OP they you almost see her as a mini adult.Just wait until she gets to 6/7 and starts the hormonal answering back phase!
Hopefully she can have a good rest at half term.

[Peppaismyrolemodel]

@Summerdayshaze

You sound like you think she was a perfect child and you have given her a perfect life. That can’t be true. No wonder things are “deregulated”. Whatever that means.

So much red herring with the ‘dysregulated’- people- it’s just a common phrase used by teaching/social care staff to describe children struggling to communicate and manage their emotions. It’s neutral, kind and useful language in a professional setting. It’s based on considerable peer reviewed research. There is nothing wrong with Op using it! 😩🤷‍♀️

[Peppaismyrolemodel]

I wonder if you had an honest chat with your dds teacher, and perhaps asked her outright if there is a child who also does similar in your dds class, you might get an honest answer back?

[Summerfun54321]

Those all sound like phrases she’s heard and learned elsewhere. At 5 kids don’t even really understand life and death and have no real understanding of birth so saying “I wish I was never born” isn’t the same as someone older saying it. She sounds knackered and maybe she’s struggling with the adjustment into school and less attention from teachers and isn’t feeling confident just having a go at things a little more independently. Kids just melt down and cry though mostly in those first few months of reception at home. Don’t try to do anything in the evenings and keep weekends low key.

[tigerinyourtank]

@billy1966

OP,

If you collect her from school by car, start going for a small extendend spin around the area, her in the back, no looking at you.

Start asking her questions like.

Best thing that happened today
Worst thing that happened..
Funniest thing that happened..
Saddest thing...
Who was the best behaved
Who was the worst
Etc.

Be very calm and non descript in your replies."nice, oh, really, ok, wow"

This tends to be a very good way to hear exactly what is going on.

I would be concerned if she was saying these things on a regular basis.
I would want to know the source of her negativity.

Politely disagree.

Please don't grill your give your old on "who was the best behaved?" "who was the worst behaved?"

It's not a 5 year old's job to 'report back' on their subjective opinion of other classmate's behaviours.

Take her out and have fun by all means. But not this nonsense.

[tigerinyourtank]

@BiLuminous

Also, i resolve this through connection usually. I make him feel special. I give him control of play or reading together. He often will then tell me why he felt bad

Absolutely 100 percent THIS

[twilightermummy]

Echoing a few other posters, I also think that things sound a bit full on at home. It’s clear that you love her to pieces but it seems that there’s quite a bit of pressure on a 5 year old. Even on yourself really with all that patience!
I really do mean that gently and of course I could be reading it wrong. It’s just that your post screamed that to me. She will only be young once, try and enjoy it. If you strive for perfection, she will disappoint you and she will know that!

[Wineandroses3]

My little girl is 3 and is at nursery she too is a clever little girl, very happy and adored by the whole family. But even though she loves going to nursery when she gets Home she has been really horrible to me and says things like “I will kill you”! I just play it down and say things like “what’s happened to my lovely little girl” or “ that’s unkind to say that to mummy” And she usually comes round , I just think they can’t regulate their emotions and when they say things like this at such a young age they just want even more love and cuddles than usual. I wouldn’t be overly concerned by what you have said x

[MigAndMog]

A lot of it sounds like tiredness and adjusting but those phrases sound like she has heard someone else say them. Some of our year R class started saying "shut up you little bugger" out of character and sure enough they were learning it from a kid that learnt it at home. I'm hoping another kid in the class isn't hearing that someone wishes they had never been born but it's possible and I think I would approach the teacher to discuss your child. My DD suddenly became very negative about herself out of the blue (though she was older). Then one night she couldn't wee and then it all seemed to go away so do also check how much she is drinking and whether it could be a UTI.

[julieca]

I always think it is a bit of a strange thing here that we all do i.e. try and see what is really happening in a situation where we don't know that much and we have never met any of the people involved. So what I am about to say may be way off. But my thoughts are -

You talk about making sure her life is predictable and secure and scold yourself for shouting when she has hurt you. So it sounds like when starting school, she has gone from a safe quiet haven, say in an English spa, to the equivalent of Delhi with lots of noise, not much predictably and a bit of chaos. A reception class will always be slightly chaotic. So she may simply be struggling to adjust to this enormous change to her life.

Refusing to do anything I ask of her.
She sounds like she has been a fairly compliant child up till now. Seeing other children refusing to do things may have made her realise she does not have to be compliant. I cant remember what age I was, but I still vaguely remember the lightbulb moment I had when I realised that my mum couldn't really make me do lots of stuff.

Telling me she wishes she’d never been born. I think this is simply an expression of unhappiness or even tiredness and being overwhelmed. She is too young to really grasp this concept. It will simply be a phrase she has heard. Maybe sadly another classmate whose parent says to the child they wish they had never been born. I can remember as a teenager saying I wished I was dead. But I didn't really, I simply wanted the negative feeling I had in that moment to stop.

Telling me she hates being a child.
I have some sympathy with this. As a child you have very little control over your life. I would ask her why she hates being a child. But if she doesn't know, I would be looking at how to give her some more control over her life through choices. Some children need more of a sense of control than others.

Telling me she’s useless at everything (despite the fact she can already read, write and do difficult maths).
She sounds hard on herself. I would try and take the focus off what she achieves and focus instead on her personal qualities e.g. you are so funny, and on praising effort put in. You want to discourage perfectionist tendencies which are common in well behaved girls. It is not good for mental health.

This evening she has pinched me, splashed me told me I’m stupid and seemed furious with me. I managed to stay calm until she pinched my under arm and a shouted “stop it” (it bloody hurt!) I’ve never shouted at her before and I’m really upset.
She is obviously angry with you. Dont let her hurt you. But try and understand why she is angry with you. Are you giving her enough space to just be? Are you demanding too much from a tired 5-year-old? She may be feeling grumpy after a tiring school day. Try and arrange things so she has some control over what she does, but you make as few demands on her as you can. But one demand I would be clear on is no hurting you. That has to be a firm boundary.

I would also check with the teacher that there is nothing more going on. But it is important to remember at this age that what seem like tiny worries to us, can be enormous to a 5 year old. So if there is anything it isn't necessarily a big thing.

[Dancingonmoonlight]

julieca Superb post. I'm going to copy it into my own 'notes' and refer back to it when I need advice.

Thank you.