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ADs and The Brave New World

1000 replies

BogRollBOGOF · 20/10/2021 22:55

When you kind of hope that a new thread meanders on quietly because it means that life is being fairly stable...

What are ADs?

Here's the copy and paste job...

Definition of AD
^AD stands for anti dementor.
There are creatures in Harry Potter called dementors, who suck all hope and happiness from you and eventually take your soul. Way back at the start of the pandemic thread after thread was posted on by posters like this and anyone who'd dare question anything or disagree with anything (like putting cheese in your coffee) was bullied off these threads. And so any actual discussion disappeared and it became an echo chamber of misery.^

We are the antidote to that. We follow the rules, but not the "roolz" and we question and discuss with respect to each other. It's all very civil.

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34
Worldgonecrazy · 12/01/2022 08:59

@110APiccadilly

Am I right in thinking that T cell immunity means that having had some colds might have been a protective factor? I remember this being discussed ages ago in the context of why children didn't generally get as ill.

So, would that mean that we actually placed at least some people more at risk by locking down? Particularly children (there's a surprise).

100% spot on!

But anyone pointing out that isolation damaged the immune system was an anti-lockdown granny killer!

Worldgonecrazy · 12/01/2022 09:04

If anyone falls for the ‘buy this gadget and lose weight’ adverts, do they blame the advertiser for selling the junk or do they blame themselves for being foolish?

People are getting angry with the government because they are unable to face the fact that they have been complicit in their own subjugation. People have been taken for fools with so much damage caused, but they have to take some responsibility. The fear was real, I do understand that, but not comforting someone because you were scared is a poor excuse for not comforting them at all, particularly those who were end of life anyway.

Worldgonecrazy · 12/01/2022 09:20

Deborah Cohen on Twitter..”we lost our compassion “.

So true, and I think a lot of people need time to self heal from the damage done to us by the media, the government, AND our own actions.

amicissimma · 12/01/2022 14:10

I took to following the AD threads for the reasons above - that it seemed to me that some people were so caught up in the fear and the rules that they had lost sight of their humanity.

It was interesting how aggressive some posters were against the ADs. Some even tried to attack on the threads, but, once everyone got the hang of ignoring them, they stopped.

@110APiccadilly, I think that it's recognised by some (many?) now that lockdown does place people at risk and there could be more at risk from lockdown than from Covid. Now we have vaccines, surely that has swung right over against lockdown - as apparently acknowledged by our government. There's also the concept that slowing the spread now could move infections to later in the year when more of the elderly and the vulnerable, who got their boosters earlier, will be having a decline in antibodies.

110APiccadilly · 12/01/2022 16:18

@amicissimma, I realise I wasn't clear. My thoughts were that possibly some people were put at higher risk from Covid itself via lockdowns. If people (say, small children in particular) were not at high risk initially because they had good T-cell immunity due to catching colds regularly, and then lockdown meant they caught less colds, I was thinking that might make them more vulnerable to Covid over the long term. But I'm not an immunologist, so I may be missing something.

Obviously lockdowns place people at risk in all sorts of other ways.

amicissimma · 12/01/2022 16:38

Good point, 110APiccadilly. The whole episode has raised an enormous range of questions about what's good for humans in a myriad of ways.

(I've always been in the 'a little dirt/exposure to germs builds the immune system' camp. I wonder what isolation has done to us.)

toomuchlaundry · 12/01/2022 16:47

@Worldgonecrazy but if people weren't able to go into hospital/care homes to see their loved ones before they died, it wasn't their fault. It wasn't fear that was stopping them

BogRollBOGOF · 12/01/2022 18:18

So many people not only stuck to the rules but clung on to old rules or added extra rules. I've no sympathy for those who blindly swallowed it all and then some.
There were always exceptions for supporting vulnerable people and very often people did not take it up. Again more fool them if that was their concious choice. Where people had their choices removed by external bodies, care homes, hospitals, undertakers etc I do have enormous sympathy.
I cared about all kinds of things in 2020, but got shot down in flames for it time and time again, but the ADs have been proved correct time and time again- usually painfully where an "I told you so would be crass".

My anger largely burned out a while back. I don't even know how to describe it. I don't really care about Downing Street parties in themselves, they made no bloody difference, but I do care about the hypocrisy that living socially and humanely was denied to the rest of us so, so much longer than was necessary. I couldn't buy shoes for growing children until 15th June. I should not have taken them to the playground until the 4th July... one in the neighbouring village didn't open until mid-August... DS2 didn't notice, he was accustomed to running and vaulting the fence Hot Fuzz style by then Grin

I feel like people are angry over the wrong angle. It's not about the party, it's about the policies. Why were dying people denied love and companionship at all?

I do have a residual anger at overly compliant people who allowed the government to get away with this powertrip unquestioned. I do feel angry at people still blindly complying with nonsense rules for a quiet life. Probably harsh and unfair of me because there was so much indoctrination.

And it's not just our government. Certainly at the moment, Westminster is far from the worst. When I was in Ireland 5 months ago there was a matrix sign outside our accommodation emblazened with something along the lines of "keep going we're nearly there"... they dragged it out to a brief reopening in the autumn before yet another partial lockdown again. No hospitality again this winter.

Looking at models of stages of grief, I had that kind of accepting denial in the first weeks where it was new and there was a kind of novelty, but even in April 2020 more information was emerging. At the end of the month the ADs formed. Fatigue set in in May and my frustration and anger first began to really brew hitting proper anger in June, it did all ease July to September but brewed again in the autumn. By November the anger began alternating with depression. I felt numb until July and into August. Crap as Ireland was, it was cathartic in seeing that England could be far worse. I began to feel a more normal emotional range again. I don't know if acceptance is the right word now, I'd love it if there is justice and genuine learning from this, and maybe for once a WW2 analogy is appropriate because I'd love to see vows of never repeating these crimes against humanity and basic human behaviours in the way that WW2 was reflected upon. I'm not holding my breath though, because the oppressors were our own governments and nearly all have jumped on the bandwagon, often at their own gain.

I find it bizzarre that so many people seem to be reaching the stage that the ADs were at in spring/ summer 2020 although many will have had more at stake with their own or loved ones' health concerns. The news that the government are hypocrites hunting for loopholes is of no surprise to me, and I feel vindicated that my heinous granny-killing crimes of exercising too much and trespassing in playgrounds were of negligable consequence and were well worth the benefits.

I'm probably rambling because it's so hard to articulate!

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BogRollBOGOF · 12/01/2022 18:21

[quote toomuchlaundry]@Worldgonecrazy but if people weren't able to go into hospital/care homes to see their loved ones before they died, it wasn't their fault. It wasn't fear that was stopping them[/quote]
I am angry with organisations for inflicting these rules on others. Or those that added extra rules to beef up their risk assessments. Or those who looked the other way (such as Barnados, NSPCC) while so much damage was being done. Why have we only ever heard from them when restrictions eased? Were they complicit or gagged?

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BogRollBOGOF · 12/01/2022 18:28

@Worldgonecrazy

Deborah Cohen on Twitter..”we lost our compassion “.

So true, and I think a lot of people need time to self heal from the damage done to us by the media, the government, AND our own actions.

I had compassion in 2020 and it is much weaker now. But that's what happens when you're shut away, shouted down and called selfish all the time. Self fulfilling prophecy.

It will take time to heal and re-bond.

Getting back together to reconnect with people is essential.

If too much of society remains remote and online, those connections will be diminished.

How much have we lost?
Places like uni societies losing passing the baton of experience through the year groups is hard to replace.
Old people and their social organisations will find it hard to find energy and confidence to flourish again.

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ISaySteadyOn · 12/01/2022 19:00

Applauds loudly I am so glad to have found you all and these threads have kept me sane.

I am reaching out to a friend because I think she needs to be with an AD to let her AD side out. So I am reconnecting there.

BogRollBOGOF · 12/01/2022 19:47

I had friends that hid away pretty much until their children went back to school in Sept 2020. They seemed to engage back with the world then and we reached a more mutual wavelength. They're not the most local so the winter lockdown was a hinderence again and we favoured meeting outdoors if realistically viable. Fortunately this past year and the confidence of vaccines has restored us back to our normal. I'm glad I was patient but it was hard when I was so lonely for so long. If they'd have kept it into 2021 or been vociferously righteous about restrictions it would have been far harder to reccover the friendship.

Human life can't pause for a couple of years especially when people carry on living at different paces.

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Worldgonecrazy · 12/01/2022 21:06

We are not alone. This Twitter thread is interesting. twitter.com/SueC00K/status/1481258662551248896

There needs to be a campaign to allow people more humanity and compassion around hospital, hospice and care home visits. Even today people are being isolated when they are end of life.

Heartened to see that many chose compassion and care over rules. It is heartbreaking for those that were never given the choice with relatives in care.

I agree this should be our ‘never again’ moment.

110APiccadilly · 12/01/2022 21:30

The leader of Plaid Cymru wrote a piece in the Guardian the other day, calling for more rights for people with dementia to have visitors. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/09/pandemic-policy-robbed-my-mother-both-of-family-love-and-human-rights

Which is all very well, except that certain Plaid Cymru councils have been more dementory than anyone else on the planet. And continue so to be, so perhaps she could get her own house in order?

justasking111 · 12/01/2022 21:33

I read a thread this week where the OP young person small kids said she had fallen out with someone because of mask wearing they should be worn indoors and out at all times. I checked the date thinking I had stumbled upon a zombie thread but nope it was a new one. 🙄

justasking111 · 12/01/2022 21:35

@110APiccadilly

The leader of Plaid Cymru wrote a piece in the Guardian the other day, calling for more rights for people with dementia to have visitors. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/09/pandemic-policy-robbed-my-mother-both-of-family-love-and-human-rights

Which is all very well, except that certain Plaid Cymru councils have been more dementory than anyone else on the planet. And continue so to be, so perhaps she could get her own house in order?

North West Wales is a cesspit of plaid lunacy since the elections. They're making the Anglesey MP life difficult. It's really unpleasant
justasking111 · 12/01/2022 22:13

Shucks they've shut a thread down. I tried to post this you guys might appreciate it

Let's take every politician to a pond tie them to a ducking stool and immerse them completely if they drown they have integrity and would have been excellent MP material, if they survive they have no integrity and should be deselected. 🧙🧙🧙

😅😅

BogRollBOGOF · 12/01/2022 22:30

@justasking111

Shucks they've shut a thread down. I tried to post this you guys might appreciate it

Let's take every politician to a pond tie them to a ducking stool and immerse them completely if they drown they have integrity and would have been excellent MP material, if they survive they have no integrity and should be deselected. 🧙🧙🧙

😅😅

Shame to lose a few decent ones though Grin
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110APiccadilly · 13/01/2022 06:30

Ah, Plaid Cymru, the nationalist party that just happen to also be socialist. That's probably a bit below the belt, but it has to be said that I've seen outright racism from Plaid supporters in the past. Not officially sanctioned, of course, but it's there.

There's also a weird effect where if you speak Welsh, you're automatically assumed to share a pretty much complete set of political opinions. I do, and I don't, and it's surprising how often people (particularly fellow Welsh speakers) find that really strange.

BogRollBOGOF · 13/01/2022 07:29

I find it weird how opinions get conflated together. Hate masks= anti-vaxx, must have voted Leave/ Tory. Scum.
That simplistic (and usually very incorrect) lumping together is so divisive. And when it comes to voting there are so many factors. I've gone to a polling station and put X in the box of 2-3 different parties in one day because at a local/ national ( and previously European level) they represent different issues.
But I never understood tribal voting. Voting Red/ Blue because your parents did and that's what you do. Voting consistently because the policies/ political direction consistently appeals to you is fine, just not blindly.

I know it's often come up on here that we tend to be fairly centre or feeling a bit lost and underrepresented.

I'm not tribal about anything... well maybe about parkrun...Grin

But back to politics and just general debate, I'd like to see a return to more nuanced discussion that seems to have been lost in the past decade (that we do so well Wink )

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Taswama · 13/01/2022 08:07

Indeed Bogroll I would vote for the parkrun party!

I'm pro vaccination but not pro mandatory vaccines. I work in a company where they are now mandatory for some staff and have seen the effect on staffing. But keep my opinions firmly to myself.

I think the ability to debate rationally finished in 2016 at the latest in this country.

Worldgonecrazy · 13/01/2022 08:58

It did make me laugh when I got called an anti-vaxxer on another thread. I guess the person who called me that was unable to spell words with more than two syllables, such as ‘mandatory’ or ‘necessary’. I also think the poster is a shill.

Though I’m not certain that what is currently happening could or should be called ‘vaccination’ as it slows rather than prevents, but perhaps that is too nuanced!

Actually, the whole vaccine discussion has too many nuances, someone else told me that breastfeeding didn’t make a difference to what vaccines a baby needed! There is so much misinformation out there.

Of course, none of this misinformation and ‘fact checking’ is anything to do with James C Smith, board member of Pfizer, who was until 2020, the Chairman and CEO of Reuters-Thompson Corporation remains head of their London charitable foundation!

Wheels within wheels, and perhaps we will never know the extent to which we have been manipulated. Whilst I am always aware Quis custodiet ipsos custodes, we must also be aware that those aware of the manipulation may themselves be being manipulated to that awareness.

That thought always makes my brain hurt, but reminds me that none of us are immune to the influences around us.

Worldgonecrazy · 13/01/2022 14:19

Talking of influences, finally a major new source is talking about the Nudge Unit

twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1481620817217736714?s=20

No doubt the despicable nature of this behaviour will be brushed aside as unimportant, or maybe ‘all for our own good’.

I still don’t understand why this amazing nudge theory can’t be used to create a healthier population.

justasking111 · 13/01/2022 16:05

@Worldgonecrazy

Talking of influences, finally a major new source is talking about the Nudge Unit

twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1481620817217736714?s=20

No doubt the despicable nature of this behaviour will be brushed aside as unimportant, or maybe ‘all for our own good’.

I still don’t understand why this amazing nudge theory can’t be used to create a healthier population.

Coz it's being used to kill off the old and the expensive sick for now.

I see Van Tam has resigned

NannyGythaOgg · 13/01/2022 22:00

I suspect one of BJs thought processes at the moment is pretty similar to ours.
'If only people hadn't been so compliant and there had been more outrage early on, most of the over reaction wouldn't have happened and I wouldn't be in this shit now because most people would have been doing the same'.

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