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Parents of teenagers. If you haven’t listened to all episodes of this yet then you are out of touch…

155 replies

Blessex · 16/10/2021 11:29

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09yjmph

OP posts:
MonsignorMirth · 17/10/2021 09:52

Worth noting that a common derailment tactic (deliberate derailment itself isn't exactly civil discussion) is to constantly post about what MN feminists are like, what they think the fwr board is like, etc.

I'm only halfway through the podcast. In one way it's slightly hard to listen to as I'm used to neatly packaged documentaries etc, but their neutral approach, questioning as they learn, is quite refreshing, as well as the way they actually let their subjects talk! And don't cut them off to force a point home - although they are rightly challenged, on all sides- but let their knowledge or ignorance shine clearly.

LonginesPrime · 17/10/2021 10:21

Yes, the podcast as a medium for this kind of investigation is so much better than a time-limited news segment - not having the time constraints is great for this kind of sprawling topic, as it's so frustrating listening to radio/TV segments where interviewees are forced to summarise complex, multi-faceted issues in the ten seconds of airtime remaining.

Not least as those pithy soundbites about one tiny topic (sport, etc) then get repeated as if they represent the whole issue, which then trivialises the wider argument that women's voices should be heard on issues that affect them.

Blessex · 17/10/2021 10:33

Episode 5 is absolutely superb. I have listened to it twice so I really really get it. And it’s HAPPENING IN OUR SCHOOLS. And it is like we are REGRESSING. Any child who feels different is told they are in the wrong body!!!! That is so regressive and playing into such old fashioned gender stereotypes!!! It is wiping out homosexuality.

OP posts:
Blessex · 17/10/2021 10:34

Let alone the irreversible medical implications of it all.

Episode 5 should be compulsory listening to all parents.

OP posts:
echt · 17/10/2021 10:36

@DerAlteMann

Haven't listened and have no plans to do so.
:o
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 17/10/2021 10:39

Episode 5 is absolutely superb

It is deeply disturbing that any ideology could take such a firm hold in a clinical facility and produce so many deleterious impacts on the quality of life of the people whom they serve.

I used to wonder how and why clinicians didn't protest about medical practices that are now viewed as abhorrent and were firmly grounded in social values and perspectives rather than reality. I now realise that ideology and social narratives are preferred to material reality until such time as the harms are undeniable and there is a political and social will to stop them.

The same is true for education and so many integral parts of our lives. We can not consent to this displacement of rationality and transparency in favour of an ideology that scarcely anyone can articulate (not least, judging by the contributions in these podcast episodes).

catzwhiskas · 17/10/2021 12:13

Would it be possible to put a link to the David Bell interview specifically in the parents of teenagers chat? Or would that be forbidden for some reason? Seems like essential given the numbers of parents wondering what ids going on.

BoreOfWhabylon · 17/10/2021 12:25

Might be a good idea to ask MNHQ @catzwhiskas

catzwhiskas · 17/10/2021 12:57

BoreofWhabylon in site stuff or elsewhere?

catzwhiskas · 17/10/2021 13:03

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

We've moved this over to Chat now. We take the point that it's not strictly a women's rights issue - but it's not an AIBU either! Technically, it should be in Teenagers but for now it can stay in Chat. Please bear in mind our guidelines for discussions around gender identity and sex.

Thanks all.

I really don’t think chat under “fun and games” is appropriate for this topic. Can we be allowed to link part 5 of the discussed podcast into parents of teenagers where it will be essential . So many worried parents out there
Blessex · 17/10/2021 13:10

Hey! My first post has a link to the podcast series then simply click into episode 5. Loads of other resources in the other episodes too.

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 17/10/2021 13:38

@catzwhiskas you could just report your post and ask MNHQ what they think

BulletandtheBullseye · 17/10/2021 13:43

I agree with Hadro. Again ; )

I’m not sure if this is allowed under the rules (Ive read them, I just can’t be sure) so if it’s not I’ll try to rephrase.

But this is the lobotomy of our generation. Only instead of just lobotomising patients, it’s also changing our laws to say that anyone who feels a bit down must therefore require a lobotomy. And that’s filtered down through every public organisation. So our kids are taught they need a lobotomy because they felt a bit sad when a boy called them names. And they are taught we should be proud of needing a lobotomy and be celebrated for getting one. And that anyone who questions if they really need a lobotomy is an evil bigot. And then they are told because their parents are such evil bigots that school should ignore the safeguarding laws because lobokids are special and can consent to medical procedures other kids can’t.

This is where we are at. And we need to start reframing it without bias of ‘stonewall nice pretty pride flag charity’ because they are no longer this.

And it doesn’t matter who they were in the past, all that matters is right now and the harm being done now.

So reframe:

Organisation X using public funds and hides how they use them. X makes other public organisations sign NDA’s. X refuses to participate in transparent discussion or listen to other views. X claims to be diverse and inclusive but acts for one tiny % of the country, despite their funds coming from 100%. X intentionally misrepresents the law, and ignores logical reasoned challenges to this ie- being asked to read the equality act, that we can all google. X acts as if above reproach.

This is dismantling democratic freedoms. This is a partizan lobby group.

X campaigns to remove single sex exemptions from the equality act (it’s in their manifesto on their website). X redefines the word woman. Their redefinition ignores science and our laws.

This is misogynistic. This is anti science and contravening British values (laws).

X redefines homosexuality. X ignores science and laws in this definition. X tells lesbians they are bigots if they don’t accept sex with males.

This is homophobic.

X pushes an ideology that sterilises children. X tells girls if they feel like a boy they are one and should use boys toilets.

This is a huge safeguarding red flag. It ignores our safeguarding laws.

Now if you say all that with stonewall in place of X it sounds like hyperbole to any one not familiar with the facts because they hear stonewall and think lovely welcoming charity that does good things. Because none of us think without bias, including positive bias.

But we need to learn to be objective. We need to think how this will look to future generations who don’t have the same positive bias blinding us. There is no right side of history, there are no good guys. We all need to learn to critically evaluate our bias because if we don’t we fail to safeguard our children’s futures and their future democratic freedoms. This will become the self destruct button for our civilisation if we don’t.

BulletandtheBullseye · 17/10/2021 13:51

Sorry I meant to say there is no right side of history, no good guys. Just the present and the future we are throwing away.

BaronMunchausen · 17/10/2021 15:33

Does anyone have a link to the actual Freedom of Information requests mentioned in the podcast concerning the removal of the word 'mother' from Maternity policies? We can see that the word is now absent from the Scottish government's guidance to employers on Maternity Leave, for example, but not how it used to read before Stonewall told them to remove such words.

I've looked on whatdotheyknow, but can't find them - there are so many 'Information about your dealings with Stonewall' requests!

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/10/2021 17:44

Terrific post, @BulletandtheBullseye. You are so right.

catzwhiskas · 17/10/2021 18:03

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

Blessex · 18/10/2021 09:26

Kirstie Allsopp seems to be listening now too and it has just been covered on the Today Programme on Radio 4. 8.40am.

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BoreOfWhabylon · 18/10/2021 09:29

Nolan and David Thompson from the podcast were on Radio 4 Flagship Today programme this morning talking about Stone wall and the BBC.

They got a lot into a short segment. It's available to listen again

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0010ncj

Starts approx 20 minutes before the end (2 hours 40 mins in)

BoreOfWhabylon · 18/10/2021 09:29

X post Blessex Grin

Taswama · 18/10/2021 09:45

I'm working my way through it and finding it very balanced.

They give the editor of pink news as well as a non binary person lots of airtime to explain what non binary is, what genderqueer is and other stuff. He asks the questions some people might be afraid to ask (so if you're attracted to everyone, doesn't that make you bisexual?) but in a totally respectful manner.
He also challenges the guy from the Tavistock clinic on some of his assertions.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/10/2021 10:21

Listening to Nolan's brief segment on Today lends more weight to why we need a further investigation into the power of lobby groups.

Posters on FWR have been suggesting for some time that there's been a very skewed agenda on flagship programmes. How many issues have never been discussed for inclusion into the programmes? iirc, to this day, Woman's Hour has not interviewed Sonia Appleby, Allison Bailey, Keira Bell, Maya Forstater nor Helen Joyce.

We have Deb Cohen and Hannah Barnes to thank for the Tavi coverage at all on Newsnight - how many other health, safeguarding and other stories have not been permitted.

We've read about groups within organisations being invited to comment on editorial agenda - were they able to keep some stories from ever being covered? Is a lobby group behind the current BBC style guide? That is a fabulous piece of entryism because once it makes the BBC it then becomes an argument for challenging current dictionary definitions.

Whatever a lobby group is for, we can not allow them to operate in the shadows like this.

BoreOfWhabylon · 18/10/2021 10:34

I do think light is now starting to be shone into those shadowy places EmbarrassingHadrosaurus. I find it most encouraging.

What I would really like is for the much-vaunted suicide stats and violent attacks on transpeople to be publicly challenged. They are repeated unquestioningly as articles of faith.

I heard a bit of Little Owen Jones on another radio programme this morning. The topic was the murder of David Amess and violent rhetoric but LOJ made it all about the most oppressed people ever. Again.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 18/10/2021 11:19

The topic was the murder of David Amess and violent rhetoric but LOJ made it all about the most oppressed people ever. Again.

Shock How on earth did he manage that?

BulletandtheBullseye · 18/10/2021 11:57

Gasp

He opened his mouth?