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Original poster

Why don’t they teach things like taxes, budgeting etc in school?

166 replies

Soubriquet · 12/10/2021 13:08

Don’t say it’s because it’s the parents job because my parents were terrible and are in a lot of debt, so is dh’s so we haven’t learnt from them at all and because of that, we are mildly in debt but no where near as much

Why don’t schools teach these sort of things?

OP posts:
fruitbrewhaha · 12/10/2021 19:58

You can't learn everything in life at school. You do carry on learning throughout your life. I don't think anybody taught me how a mortgage worked or the tax system. I looked it up.

Budgeting is also something I worked out for myself. Budgeting is very hard though if your on a low income. No amount of spreadsheets can sort it out if you have a shortfall.

Animood · 12/10/2021 19:59

I imagine most people put up a shelf at some point in their lives, so brackets are useful. None of the stuff you mentioned needs teaching, you learn it as you go. I would have been offended if a teacher thought I needed telling that 31% was more expensive than 1%!

People don't make brackets though do they? You buy them from IKEA then drill them into the wall!

I'll stick making brackets on my to do list along with sewing something circular 😂🤣

Except some people clearly don't learn this stuff as they go along? They muddle through life, never have a budget, don't really know what's going on with pension, finances etc. Then they get themselves in a right old pickle! Banks and other lenders take advantage. Far better to have a few classes at school to at least point people in the right direction.

shrodingersbiscuit · 12/10/2021 20:10

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karmakameleon · 12/10/2021 20:23

The problem with trying to teach much of this, is that it isn’t static.

I’m a chartered accountant and as part of my training, I was taught about personal taxation at quite a detailed level. Twenty years on though, so much of it is irrelevant and I don’t practice personal tax, so if I was doing a tax return I’d have to start from scratch. BUT what I did learn at school, was how to research something. I’d be able to find and read the relevant guidance (which for a standard return you don’t need to be a professional to understand), and perform the calculations using some basic maths.

Pensions, loans and investments are the same. No one taught me but I can read and research. And new products are offered all the time. Again, what I might have learnt at school nearly thirty years ago won’t be relevant any longer.

621CustardCream438 · 12/10/2021 20:58

“Working out the angle of a triangle or the circumference of a circle... I mean come on. Who needs to know that??? “

Oh. My. Word.

I don’t know - engineers of all kinds? Scientists? Plumbers? Builders? Surveyors? Mathematicians? Fashion designers? Architects? Anybody who wants to do maths A level?

I mean I don’t use modern languages, most of the science I was taught, or in fact most of the maths I’ve learnt (and since forgotten) but that doesn’t mean it was pointless teaching and learning it. You can’t dumb down the entire curriculum to “stuff the average adult finds essential in day to day life”.

qualitygirl · 12/10/2021 21:20

I have truly heard it all!!

Let's not bother teaching geometry, trigonometry or algebra shall we??

I work in pharmaceuticals and I cannot even begin to list the ways in which we use maths on a daily basis...

And I can think of about 10-15 other occupations that use maths daily for their jobs...jobs which produce goods and/or services pretty much every person uses Hmm

If you say so... we'll get rid of them off of the curriculum and see how we fair shall we Confused

Wide · 12/10/2021 21:28

I agree OP. I thonk the curriculum is ridiculous, dd was learning the other day how many chickpeas she could pick up with chopsticks, seriously hoe is this going to help in life???

nosyupnorth · 12/10/2021 21:37

They do, in primary school.

If Jennie has £5 and apples are 75p each, how many apples can she buy?

Little Timmy gets six cakes from his grandma, but his mother says he has to give one third to his brother when he gets home, how many cakes can little Timmy eat and still have enough to give his brother his share?

It's not the schools' fault some people are too dim to actually apply that knowledge.

TuftyMarmoset · 12/10/2021 21:40

Financial stuff is just largely common sense though @animood whereas you need to learn methods for angles. And if you live in an old house where everything is wonky then IKEA stuff won’t fit… I speak from experience there. If only the builders of my house had had set squares and known how to use them!

I got a job in financial services without needing anyone to teach me anything about any of it. If I came across something I was unsure about I googled it. The most important thing schools could impart would be the ability to take some initiative.

wallysally · 12/10/2021 21:43

@Wide out of interest what age is your dd?

PreparationPreparationPrep · 12/10/2021 22:43

@Wide

I agree OP. I thonk the curriculum is ridiculous, dd was learning the other day how many chickpeas she could pick up with chopsticks, seriously hoe is this going to help in life???
GrinCreative way of counting - or the teacher wanted them occupied for a good while.
unknownstory · 12/10/2021 23:00

I have maths A level. Science degree.
I just about understand different mortgage calculations. Pensions I'm totally lost on. Yet I am post 50 and could really do with knowing

Sh05 · 12/10/2021 23:15

At my dds school this kind of stuff is taught as part of careers advice and personal wellbeing module.
They cover stuff from the really basics like booking a train ticket and opening a bank account to budgeting and applying for loans. It's very new in the curriculum, they started in the last term before September. It's only one lesson a week but it's life skills and DD says everyone really enjoys the lesson

InvincibleInvisibility · 13/10/2021 05:30

So why dont you look up pensions or talk to a financial advisor???
That's what I did.

Pea22ches · 13/10/2021 05:47

PPs are right when they say you are taught the Maths skills to manage debt.*

Nonsense. Being a maths wizard won't automatically able you to be a maths wizard and make you into a money savvy person. Being money savvy is a completely different skill. People who are in debt are from ALL types of backgrounds with and without degrees so its nothing to do with that there maths is poor.

I've always been money save but I'm not fantastic at maths. However I have great organisation skills and I tend to write my bills down so I can see what's what and I'm a good saver in general.

My brother is the most intelligent by 4 out of four siblings along with being the biggest spender.

Pixxie7 · 13/10/2021 05:53

I am interested in the fact you seem to blame that your debt. You are responsible for your own decisions. As far as teaching in schools it’s really quite basic either you can afford it or not.

Evvyjb · 13/10/2021 06:10

Teacher here- we DO teach these things! It's just that it goes in one ear and out the other... I went through budgeting with my 6th form group and they couldn't have cared less.

The best way I learnt budgeting and money management etc was to work and earn. Got a job in Y10, have never been without one since. Made mistakes, learnt, improved.

There are shockingly few students now, that I teach, that work.

toomanypillows · 13/10/2021 06:37

We spend a term on this in year 12 during our enrichment sessions. We have a scheme of work which includes practical workshops, lectures and guest speakers and we try and build in huge amounts of advice on financial management, budgeting etc.
On paper it's fantastic - the reality is that most 16/17 year olds can't apply it to their own lives - they're too busy thinking about going out that night, what hours they're doing at maccies or - longer term - which uni or apprenticeship scheme to apply to.

The problem with school taking this responsibility is that for the vast majority of them, it's completely theoretical. They don't need to do exams in it, so they don't make notes, and we send them PowerPoints which they forget exists. By the time they're in a life position to need it all, it's a memory.

What about these sorts of classes for young adults? Available in libraries and such - most of the people who need them probably won't access them, but then they also wouldn't listen when younger.

Iggly · 13/10/2021 06:41

School is not there to teach you life skills. It’s there to prime you for the work place, whatever that work place may be.

If you know you’re crap at budgeting then take responsibility for learning. Plenty of free online resources. Being “crap at maths” is no excuse - budgeting can be done with a calculator.

Iamnotthe1 · 13/10/2021 06:41

@Pea22ches

* PPs are right when they say you are taught the Maths skills to manage debt.*

Nonsense. Being a maths wizard won't automatically able you to be a maths wizard and make you into a money savvy person. Being money savvy is a completely different skill. People who are in debt are from ALL types of backgrounds with and without degrees so its nothing to do with that there maths is poor.

I've always been money save but I'm not fantastic at maths. However I have great organisation skills and I tend to write my bills down so I can see what's what and I'm a good saver in general.

My brother is the most intelligent by 4 out of four siblings along with being the biggest spender.

You are absolutely taught the skills to manage debt through Maths. Whether you choose to use them or not is an entirely different matter.

Debt doesn't just happen to people. It's not a monster that creeps up and surprises you. It stems from either choosing to live beyond your means or from having an unexpected expense that you've not saved to combat (which, tbh, is part of living within your means).

Schools can, and do, teach about managing your money. However, a series of lessons when you're a teenager could never win out against this instant gratification culture we have and a capitalist society which every day bombards people with the message that they can have whatever they want and worry about paying for it another day.

It will also never be a priority for governments to address. The current set up of our society needs debt in order to function: it provides countless jobs and increases the turnover and profit for many companies. If we all suddenly became better with money, it would likely have a negative impact on our economy, at least in the short term until a more sustainable, debt-free model could be established.

Fizbosshoes · 13/10/2021 06:54

Little Timmy gets six cakes from his grandma, but his mother says he has to give one third to his brother when he gets home, how many cakes can little Timmy eat and still have enough to give his brother his share?

How does this explain pensions NI or mortgages?

Simonjt · 13/10/2021 07:02

@Fizbosshoes

Little Timmy gets six cakes from his grandma, but his mother says he has to give one third to his brother when he gets home, how many cakes can little Timmy eat and still have enough to give his brother his share?

How does this explain pensions NI or mortgages?

It presents a basic budget, ‘Timmy’ learns that 1/3 of his resources are ring fenced and not for his direct enjoyment. An appropriate way of teaching taxes in primary school, in secondary school the 1/3 becomes a percentage, or in terms of finances compound interest.
PaperMonster · 13/10/2021 07:03

I used to teach personal finance in college, which covered these types of things. Basically a lot of personal budgeting, looking at tax and NI on payslips, how to apply for bank accounts etc.

Hollyhead · 13/10/2021 07:07

There are up to date websites like money saving expert which can teach you this stuff with just a couple of hours reading. I wouldn’t want my children wasting time at school learning stuff that would be out of date by the time it affects them. Some people are actually helpless, with the internet now there’s no excuse.

EducatingArti · 13/10/2021 07:17

@Soubriquet

Algebra, trigonometry and stuff like that are never really used by the everyday person though I understand why it’s taught in maths

I had a whole topic on citizenship once. Can’t remember a thing about it, had GCSE about it and it seems a bit pointless now. Why not change citizenship for adult learning of things like taxes, budgeting and maintaining a home

The basic answer, as others have said is that there is no space for it in the curriculum some aspects of tax and interest are covered in the current maths curriculum. You use maths more than you realise. Every time you work out which out of two products is better value, you are essentially doing an algebraic process. Working out how much wallpaper or paint you need involves concepts of area and ratio. Pythagoras theorem is used in unexpected places like field archaeology. Dealing with fuel economies, best taxi fare rates, value for money of appliance repair warranties all use maths concepts covered at GCSE.