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Original poster

Why don’t they teach things like taxes, budgeting etc in school?

166 replies

Soubriquet · 12/10/2021 13:08

Don’t say it’s because it’s the parents job because my parents were terrible and are in a lot of debt, so is dh’s so we haven’t learnt from them at all and because of that, we are mildly in debt but no where near as much

Why don’t schools teach these sort of things?

OP posts:
MistySkiesAfterRain · 12/10/2021 15:31

I thought schools did teach PSHE (personal social and health education) where they cover sex, relationships etc. I assumed some of this is covered. Quite shocked if it isn't.

MistySkiesAfterRain · 12/10/2021 15:31

Given that our debt is now 100% of GDP it might be a good time to introduce it.

ProudMaiasaura · 12/10/2021 15:31

@icelolly12

What do people mean by teaching the tax system? It's something that's a google away and for the majority of people comes out of our wages before we see it, it's not like USA where we file tax returns.
In my daughter's school it's more the practical side of "everything is taxed" thing and that's it's just a % (like they learn how to do in maths).

So if they're in the UK tax is almost always added pre-purchase to anything but to double check on some websites and if you're an employee your tax is deducted automatically so they don't get a shock when their first payslip is lower than they worked out from £X per hour for 20 hours. It's just part of the budgeting thing really.

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General education
qualitygirl · 12/10/2021 15:32

They do!! I did it in secondary school as a part of two subjects! Business studies and Home Economics.

Lincs90 · 12/10/2021 15:39

I'm not sure when you went to school, or where. I was at secondary school in the 2000s and this was part of PHSE. I remember it really clearly in year 11 as some children were going to apprenticeships and being told they'd need to put the skills into practice the next year.

I personally don't think it should be part of maths - I think maths is meant to teach you the numerical skills you later apply to relevant situations. E.g. learning percentages means I can work out VAT cost, but also a discount in a shop or the number of eggs I want if I need a bigger recipe etc.

I think part of the issue with sticking things into the curriculum is children aren't always interested if they don't see the relevance. I frequently see self-employed people wondering why they're not shown how to do taxes at school, but the reality is, a lot of school age children aren't necessarily interested enough to retain the information until they need it as an adult.

Hardybloodyhar · 12/10/2021 15:42

@MistySkiesAfterRain

I thought schools did teach PSHE (personal social and health education) where they cover sex, relationships etc. I assumed some of this is covered. Quite shocked if it isn't.
It was taught when I went to school in the 1990s, and at every school I have taught at, it's usually part of maths, lifeskills (or equivalent). I remember learning how to calculate compound interest and the teacher emphasised just how expensive debt is. I think it was in grade 10 or 11. I'm quite passionate about the importance of academic education for kids. It's what teaches us to understand society and its systems and to think, question and challenge it. Financial education run by banks should be run out of town. Like they will tell you how the modern monetary system is works and why loans are a bad idea!
Curioushorse · 12/10/2021 15:46

It is in PSHCE. I've taught it. The lesson plans were excellent (they weren't mine!), resources great..,,

....but ultimately I suspect the kids felt like it was a bit of an abstract concept.

Most of this stuff is taught. Kids see it as just another lesson.

titchy · 12/10/2021 15:55

@Soubriquet

Algebra, trigonometry and stuff like that are never really used by the everyday person though I understand why it’s taught in maths

I had a whole topic on citizenship once. Can’t remember a thing about it, had GCSE about it and it seems a bit pointless now. Why not change citizenship for adult learning of things like taxes, budgeting and maintaining a home

It will be in a lot of citizenship lessons. As you point out though - kids forget stuff that isn't relevant immediately. You may well have had a few lessons on this but totally forgotten.
MilduraS · 12/10/2021 16:45

I remember doing a module on personal finance through the open university and being so annoyed that it wasn't taught as standard at school. Up until then I had no idea about everyday things like how pensions and mortgages worked or what compound interest was. I didn't know what APR was and only had an idea of what was a good and a bad rate based on credit card adverts on tv. Until I chose my GCSE subjects I did 2 hours a week of art yet they couldn't find 30 minutes to teach us life skills. I'm sure some would argue that parents should teach these things but like a lot of people, my parents are terrible with money and couldn't manage their own finances let alone teach me to manage mine.

peanutbutter00 · 12/10/2021 16:58

So many reasons as lots of previous posters have said, already full curriculum and no resources/funding for teachers to deliver it.

But ultimately, think back to being 16ish, would you have cared? I mean truly cared and understood the context of it and the value of money, understood what it means to be responsible for all of that? For some the answer is yes but for the majority they can't truly engage with it until they live it themselves, the majority at that age don't deal with rent/mortgage paying into a pension etc

TheWeeDonkey · 12/10/2021 17:01

@starrynight21

I agree. I'm still waiting to use the trigonometry and algebra which were drilled into us at school, and I think that subjects like that are a waste except for kids who are obviously headed for a maths career. Budgeting, doing taxes, home maintenance would be much more useful imho.
I agree with this, although I was terrible at maths at school. It would have been so much more helpful to me than a lot of the stuff I learned.
TuftyMarmoset · 12/10/2021 17:05

That is just not true, how does a maths GCSE help a child whose parents can't help them to know how to open a bank account, apply for a loan, work out a household budget, organise regular bill payments, apply for benefits etc

Do you really need to be taught in school how to fill out self-explanatory forms or tick a box saying pay by direct debit? This stuff is not rocket science.

BeautifulBirds · 12/10/2021 17:12

There should be two formats of maths. 1 for daily maths, interest, Apr, mortgages, savings, investments etc and 1 for further maths with all the useless stuff that I'm still waiting 30 years to use despite doing a degree that required statistics!!

notangelinajolie · 12/10/2021 17:13

We were taught some of these things.
I was at primary school in the 70's and I remember learning how to work out rateable value Grin, water rates and all about mortgages and interest payments. We also had a school savings bank which we all took turns to work in.
All this was of course way back in the olden days. It's a shame it's no longer on the curriculum

TeaAndCake · 12/10/2021 17:14

@PleaseCanWePutAGrownUpInCharge

I would like to see two maths pathways in school.

The first would be for people who want to study maths - and really enjoy the academic and theoretical part of the subject. Much like the syllabus as it currently is.

The second would be for people who would prefer a practical maths pathway. The maths would be based in real life issues that they might come up against. They would learn eg. budgeting. Interest rates. Compound interest. The maths they learn would show them how it could be used in practice.

I think a lot of people get turned off maths when it starts to get more complicated - so they aren't able to transfer those skills to the real world as they've become disengaged along the way. At least this way you turn it into something that would be useful in real life.

This.
Some of us didn't engage with maths at all but some real world maths would have given me an idea of how to use money responsibly and understand debt.

JassyRadlett · 12/10/2021 17:15

@starrynight21

I agree. I'm still waiting to use the trigonometry and algebra which were drilled into us at school, and I think that subjects like that are a waste except for kids who are obviously headed for a maths career. Budgeting, doing taxes, home maintenance would be much more useful imho.
Growing up, in my state in Australia you had to do maths until you left school at 18 but it was split into one subject that was more academic/theoretical maths and the other which was more practical/business-focused maths.

People stop studying maths in the UK after GCSE unless they have a gift for it, which is so early and leaves so many with the feeling that they’re awful at maths as they’ve had a curriculum that focuses on the more academic parts of maths.

After the last few years I think a thorough grounding in statistics would be particularly useful…

(Separate rant on how A levels force kids to specialise too much too soon…)

GoodnightGrandma · 12/10/2021 17:16

We used to have a lesson called General Studies where we learned how to write a cheque etc. All useful stuff you needed when you were an adult. You

ivykaty44 · 12/10/2021 17:16

Schools teach you to read and write, it’s up to you whether you use these skills to investigate and research other things with the tools you’ve been taught

Scarby9 · 12/10/2021 17:24

I am highly educated (beyond degree level) and have a good job in which I use my academic skills and knowledge every day. I read widely and have wide and varied interests. I function well in society and life to the outside viewer.

But I do not understand how investments and pensions work, and don't have a credit card because I am suspicious of them and worried I would do something wrong and end up owing more money by mistake. I have an A in maths O level, use and interrogate statistics regularly and don't go overdrawn. Bit I don't understand any of that other money stuff AT ALL.

It's not for want of trying. I have tried reading, watching YouTube videos, asking people. But nothing starts far enough back or goes slowly enough to get over whatever block there is in my mind for this whole topic.

KitchenKrisis · 12/10/2021 17:24

You don't need maths skills bar basic addition to learn how to budget.

It's different and could and should be taught and investing.

KitchenKrisis · 12/10/2021 17:26

I also think presenting it as a subject you need maths for instantly creates an unnecessary barrier.

megletthesecond · 12/10/2021 17:28

I agree.
Real life maths isn't anything like school maths.

Fizbosshoes · 12/10/2021 17:31

I agree. I'm still waiting to use the trigonometry and algebra which were drilled into us at school, and I think that subjects like that are a waste except for kids who are obviously headed for a maths career. Budgeting, doing taxes, home maintenance would be much more useful imho.

I think the same.
For the people who say there isn't time for it in the curriculum , I'm not thinking it should be as well as what is already taught, I'm meaning instead of.
Almost everyone pays taxes, national insurance etc uses a credit card, lots of people take out loans, many people have mortgages....I would guess far more people than those who regularly need to know about quadratic equations, trigonometry, how ox bow lakes are formed, or need to recite first world war poetry.

On a positive note I was really impressed that my DD was being taught about spotting signs of coercive control, in her life skills lessons. I never learnt anything like that at school and hadnt even heard of the expression til about 5 years ago.

Animood · 12/10/2021 17:34

The maths curriculum is so pointless.

Working out the angle of a triangle or the circumference of a circle... I mean come on. Who needs to know that???

Taxes, accounts, budgets. Credit cards, loans, pensions. This is what we actually need to know.

Animood · 12/10/2021 17:35

On a positive note I was really impressed that my DD was being taught about spotting signs of coercive control, in her life skills lessons. I never learnt anything like that at school and hadnt even heard of the expression til about 5 years ago.

@Fizbosshoes
This is fantastic!