Why don’t they teach things like taxes, budgeting etc in school?

[Soubriquet]

Don’t say it’s because it’s the parents job because my parents were terrible and are in a lot of debt, so is dh’s so we haven’t learnt from them at all and because of that, we are mildly in debt but no where near as much

Why don’t schools teach these sort of things?

I think our curriculum is outdated and has useless things in it, but I also don't think we can throw every problem at their door.

Our business studies class taught us about budgeting, you just change the theory from a business to a household.
It also taught us how to calculate tax etc.

There is so much information online now, taxes, vat, interest rates and mortgage info is readily available on line.

As parents we need to take responsibility for guiding our children in a responsible way. This means setting them up to navigate their way through life and teaching them the things to look out for.

They used to talk about it in overview in citizenship- where taxes are spent and how they are raised (generally).

I used to think the same but the problem is - with tax - a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. And where do you start and stop? Remember each budget things change. A 14 year old taught "tax" that later goes to Uni may well have 7 budgets go by before they actually pay any tax or NI.

Budgeting is perhaps slightly different but it is essentially foundation maths in real life. It could easily be embedded in that, if it isn't already.

I do think, on reflection, citizenship is the place for this to be discussed.

Because it's not a priority. A financially secure worker is not necessarily a good one, from an employer's perspective.
It also has little to do with understanding mathematics.
I got an A at A-level (so significantly beyond the minimum level of education) and I didn't really know enough until I made a point of reading up on personal finance during university.
There are lots of tips and tricks when it comes to cutting costs and making the most of your surplus cash.

I agree with you op, most people have more need for budgeting/paying bills etc than they do algebra.

So many kids are smart academically but have zero common sense. Also a lot of children really struggle with basic maths so would really struggle with budgeting

@SylvanasWindrunner

Savings and bank accounts, interest, budgeting, mortgages, managing debt, student finance, tax and national insurance, gambling, investments, pensions ... just a few things off the top of my head.

Google and YouTube can help with all of that. That's how I worked it out.

@butwhatcanwedo

I’m pretty sure the tax system used to be on the citizenship curriculum but I don’t think it is any more. I really think that the curriculum lacks life skills.

I think the basics were, the only thing I remember was having to study a band called Mott the hoople for consumer law

Most people are on PAYE so don’t need to know anything about taxes. And budgeting is just common sense - outgoings can’t exceed income. More than that is too specific really to teach.

My school did a term on personal finance including budgeting instead of teaching PHSE during Y11. They introduced an optional course on car maintenance for 6th formers too.

Well,. my Girls' Grammar state school did, back in the 1960's .

I was in the bottom set for maths and our teacher Mrs Jones taught everything from the prospect of everyday practical use .

That included, how to measure the height of a tree; how to order and cost enough wallpaper/carpet; how read a bank statement, use a cheque book; run a household budget, calculate interest rates on loans and mortgages and.. the entire ins and outs of HMRC income tax allowances and how to fill in tax returns.

I scraped a pass in Maths O level, but I left school already earning my own money and perfectly confident in managing it.

Mrs Jones, I salute you.

The reasons mentioned, lack of time in the curriculum, that it is just maths, that's it's common sense anyway and surely that's what parents do isn't it? I taught my kids these things at least, my parents taught me. I personally need school to be teaching the things I don't know but perhaps optional classes for those who need it outside of the main school day would not be a bad idea

I used to teach money management as a unit of work in PSHE. We also did a unit on housing/living costs etc delivered by Shelter and Women’s Aid. All interesting to the pupils and they learnt a lot.

From my DS's dealings with the tax office it would seem that some of their staff don't understand the system either so expecting teachers to teach about the tax system would be interesting!
I agree that the curriculum should cover some more practical skills of day to day living than some of the stuff that's in it now which most people will never use again.

Aren't adults capable of finding things out for themselves? There are libraries. There are bookshops. Most if not all the popular newspapers have personal finance sections. There's the internet. It's never been easier to find information. People need to take responsibility and show some initiative.

I agree. Some of the gcse maths curriculum eg algebra and trig can be cut back and replaced with the topics you suggest.

We really don’t need to know the many ways to measure a circle now - it seems like an old curriculum based on training potential engineers. The UK has moved on since then.

@shrodingersbiscuit

The cynic in me would say because a less financially educated population is more likely to work in lower paid jobs. Jobs which are the majority of employment, need to be done, and should be higher paid, but aren't because people in power don't do them. Also, if you don't understand how to get more money then you can't get it off the rich people. But, as I say - cynical.

Ha! So true.

I agree it would be a better use of time than learning how to do quadratic equations!

@2bazookas

Well,. my Girls' Grammar state school did, back in the 1960's .

I was in the bottom set for maths and our teacher Mrs Jones taught everything from the prospect of everyday practical use .

That included, how to measure the height of a tree; how to order and cost enough wallpaper/carpet; how read a bank statement, use a cheque book; run a household budget, calculate interest rates on loans and mortgages and.. the entire ins and outs of HMRC income tax allowances and how to fill in tax returns.

I scraped a pass in Maths O level, but I left school already earning my own money and perfectly confident in managing it.

Mrs Jones, I salute you.

What an excellent teacher ⭐️

But taxes is mostly following instructions and filling in forms - you can learn that more generally.

The maths bit of things - if you can add and subtract, understand place value/decimals, can find percents of things, can do compound interest etc, then you can do the maths you need for most of your basic accounting and so on. And those things are taught in maths, and sometimes with word problems about interest, or paying taxes, or buying things in sales, or best value problems, or booking holidays with various options, etc. You learn the skills you need to apply later on.

The actual levels of tax, what is taxable, etc all change all the time, so basic skills of reading, following instructions, doing basic maths, being organised etc are what you need - and you should be learning all that in school anyway. Those are the transferrable skills you get

and if you're 'bad at maths', then teaching taxes and compound interest isn't going to change that - they are basic maths skills that are taught now.

If you don't understand percentages, then that's the level they should be working on teaching you, which is on the curriculum already

I would like to see two maths pathways in school.

The first would be for people who want to study maths - and really enjoy the academic and theoretical part of the subject. Much like the syllabus as it currently is.

The second would be for people who would prefer a practical maths pathway. The maths would be based in real life issues that they might come up against. They would learn eg. budgeting. Interest rates. Compound interest. The maths they learn would show them how it could be used in practice.

I think a lot of people get turned off maths when it starts to get more complicated - so they aren't able to transfer those skills to the real world as they've become disengaged along the way. At least this way you turn it into something that would be useful in real life.

Because children don’t need to know about taxes. By the time they’re able to earn, they’re able to use the Internet and whatever maths they’ve learned at school to work it out for themselves.

Parents needs to take responsibility for their children, and adults need to take responsibility for themselves. It’s not up to the government or other people to nanny children and adults.

What do people mean by teaching the tax system? It's something that's a google away and for the majority of people comes out of our wages before we see it, it's not like USA where we file tax returns.

@PleaseCanWePutAGrownUpInCharge

I would like to see two maths pathways in school.

The first would be for people who want to study maths - and really enjoy the academic and theoretical part of the subject. Much like the syllabus as it currently is.

The second would be for people who would prefer a practical maths pathway. The maths would be based in real life issues that they might come up against. They would learn eg. budgeting. Interest rates. Compound interest. The maths they learn would show them how it could be used in practice.

I think a lot of people get turned off maths when it starts to get more complicated - so they aren't able to transfer those skills to the real world as they've become disengaged along the way. At least this way you turn it into something that would be useful in real life.

Hmmmm that was the old system that ended in the late 80''s. of O-Levels vs CSE - CSE if you were considered not very bright.

I wouldn't recommend going back to this as from what I recollect it was very divisive - a maths Olevel even at grade C wasn't that much more Difficult than the CSE higher grades but back then teachers didn't tell the weaker students this - it was only if your parents had a bit of know. A friend of mine had teachers put her in the cSE classes . Her mum said no and paid for all her Olevels privately. Of course she came out with A/B - went on to get 3 Alevels at same School - BA and / masters in. 20s and PHD by late 30s all while battling with her mental health. So what kept her going was her love of education - imagine if she had taken CSE all the time feeling she could do so more but being told she wasn't intelligent enough.

@shrodingersbiscuit

The cynic in me would say because a less financially educated population is more likely to work in lower paid jobs. Jobs which are the majority of employment, need to be done, and should be higher paid, but aren't because people in power don't do them. Also, if you don't understand how to get more money then you can't get it off the rich people. But, as I say - cynical.

Replacing complex material and higher order thinking skills with lessons on filling out forms (which will probably change by the time they're adults) is hardly going to results in an empowered proletariat ready to challenge the ruling classes!

I can guarantee you the school's educating the children of the wealthy and powerful won't be teaching how to apply for a car loan.

As many have said, the technical knowledge needed to budget is really basic. The hard part is decision-making and planning around purchases and lifestyle choices. These are habits not skills, and they can't be taught in the classroom.