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Prince Andrew no surprise

734 replies

Pixxie7 · 10/10/2021 22:41

No surprise that the met have stopped. Their investigation into PA.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 11/10/2021 15:00

@julieca

You know that is z very different scenario. She was not friends with Trump.
It's amazing how people know who is and isn't a friend with people they don't know, probably have never met.
julieca · 11/10/2021 15:02

@zafferana advisors advise. Andrew makes the decisions.

ancientgran · 11/10/2021 15:07

@Diverseopinions

I suspect that Virginia Roberts' situation was a terrible one and she was vulnerable due to her age and maybe a need for a job. It's a shame her parents didn't talk her out of going in for the masseuse line of work, but perhaps they felt that role would offer her job security and a better life than otherwise. I think that Epstein's role was likely an horrendous one. I suspect that he might have wanted to have something on his male clients, to use as a lever later on, or for blackmail. I suspect he set out to strategically use Andrew.

I think that most royals must have potential girlfriends brought to them. I think they put out the word that they like a famous person's photo, or even a less famous person, and a contact known for making introductions, goes to have a word, and to see if there is interest in a rendez- vous. I expect that is how Harry met most of his slim, lithe- limbed beauties before Meghan. They were a pretty face and a pair of endless pins on a magazine cover or on TV, and he put out that he wanted a meeting arranged. That would be the only way they could meet someone who took their fancy - discreetly. So being set up with someone would be normal for Andrew. Would he see it that trafficking was involved? Did Virginia tell him that she was unhappy? Could he have shopped Epstein to the authorities for suspect behaviour?

I think everyone has to assume that a teenager involved in anything sordid needs protecting, whether they recognise that, at the time, or not. I don't know what happened between Andrew and Virginia, but I feel that if you see unescorted young girls in older adult company, that you should ask the authorities to do a welfare check.

Your last sentence is very relevant. I saw someone in Florida being interviewed, think it might have been on Newsnight. He was just some local man who lived near Epsteins house/mansion/estate whatever it was. He said everyone locally knew what was going on, local girls who were from troubled or poor families were targetted, the girls got tired of the massages but liked the money and the deal was they recruited a new girl and they'd still get their money but not have to do the massages. It sounded very sordid and the fact that it was well known but no one intervened is very sad, of course I don't know if he was telling the truth or just wanted his time on TV. I wonder if anyone regrets not reporting it.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

SpindleWhirl · 11/10/2021 15:09

@julieca

Princess Diana was recorded telling James Gilbey on the so-called "squidgygate tape": "Jimmy Savile rang me up yesterday, and he said: 'I'm just ringing up, my girl, to tell you that His Nibs [Prince Charles] has asked me to come and help out the redhead [the Duchess of York], and I'm just letting you know, so that you don't find out through her or him; and I hope it's all right by you.'"

This was taped, there is actual evidence, not just rumours. I remember all this at the time.

That's on the squidgygate tape??!

Wow. That's just fecking bonkers. I'd blotted out the existence of those awful tape recordings from my memory. I didn't listen to them at the time but obviously there were details all over the news but I didn't remember that gem ^^

queenofarles · 11/10/2021 15:09

Ofcourse he knew how old she was at that time, but was it illegal? As much as I hate to say it , I’m afraid not.
Did she express any resistance to sleeping with him?

Did she voice any concerns ?

Did he pay her? No JE did .

All we know she was instructed by GM and Andrew thought she was actually happy to be with him 🤢.

Diverseopinions · 11/10/2021 15:13

I think teenage girls are vulnerable and need to be protected even if, their seventeen year old self doesn't recognize the extent of their own vulnerability.

julieca · 11/10/2021 15:18

And a 17-year-old in England is a child.
It amazes me that in so many threads asking if it is okay to let a 17-year-old child do x, y and z, so many will say no. But apparently, if you are flown all around the world by a billionaire to have sex with multiple men, you are no longer a child and are simply choosing to do this.
The double standards are appalling. If you had a parent posting on MN saying their 17-year-old girl was being taken all over the country by a local bus driver to have sex with multiple middle-aged men, people would be rightfully appalled. But because these are rich middle-aged men, somehow it becomes all right in the eyes of some.

Diverseopinions · 11/10/2021 15:18

We can't know that Andrew knew how old Virginia was. She looks teenage in the photograph, but there is no way of knowing whether Andrew was told that she was 21. I don't suppose Andrew meets a wide circle of ordinary people or has, in his brain, many indicators which suggest what age someone might be, beyond what they say about their own age and their appearance. I imagine that his narrow life makes him insular and focused on himself and his aims.

julieca · 11/10/2021 15:20

@Diverseopinions if he is so stupid as not to ask an obviously teenage girl how old she is before having sex, then he should not be allowed out.

Diverseopinions · 11/10/2021 15:23

I'm sure nobody thinks it is right, what Virginia was doing. Some jobs involve travel - being a young au pair for a family who jet around, being one such job. Virginia was doing a masseuse job, wasn't she? I wouldn't want my seventeen, eighteen or nineteen year old even being an au pair and travelling all over the world. And I don't like the sound of a masseuse job, at all.

Gonnagetgoing · 11/10/2021 15:26

[quote julieca]@Diverseopinions if he is so stupid as not to ask an obviously teenage girl how old she is before having sex, then he should not be allowed out.[/quote]
definitely. Judging by the Emily Maitlis interview I'm sure he knew how old she was but just chose to ignore the fact.

CaveMum · 11/10/2021 15:27

@ancientgran that man was not the only one to say similar things about Epstein - there are reports of housekeepers at his New York home (and if you get the chance to listen to the podcast I linked to before it will blow your mind to find out how he came to own what is the biggest private house in the city) and drivers talking about the number of young girls that came and went from Epstein's properties.

As for Royal advisers, it's known that PA is arrogant and believes himself to be infallible. It is well documented that his communications secretary quit his job (having only been in it for a few months) after PA ignored his advice not to do the BBC car-crash interview with Emily Maitlis. I'd say he probably also ignored advice to cut all ties with Epstein, instead choosing to fly out and stay with him to "have a chat" instead of doing the correct thing which would be to have a senior aide phone him up and say "Don't contact PA again." and then ghosting him.

julieca · 11/10/2021 15:30

Masseuse outside a proper spa, is code for prostitution. Andrew will have known that as well.

peaceanddove · 11/10/2021 15:37

@x2boys

I think prince Andrew is an absolute Twat, but did he know she was trafficked, hes a prince at the end of the day, he s arrogant enough to assume any women would be delighted to have sex with him.
Sadly, I think this is all too true. I believe that entitled, self absorbed twat that Prince Andrew is, he would assume that any female would be honoured to have sex with him - you know, what with him being a prince of the realm, and everything Hmm

God knows there are plenty of men (who aren't royal) who believe exactly the same. I recall being chatted up by numerous, so very average, middle aged men when I was a lush 18 year old. The arrogance of them was unbelievable.

I also believe that PA genuinely doesn't recall having sex with VG. It was years ago and I think she was just one of many, many faceless (to him) young women who were on hand to satisfy him in any way he fancied. Harrowing thought Sad

CaveMum · 11/10/2021 15:38

Many of the girls were coerced into working for Epstein on the promise of earning a proper massage qualification which he would pay for. A lot of them came from poor/troubled backgrounds and would have jumped at the chance of travelling to exotic locations on private jets. etc.

It's exactly the same as the Rotherham grooming gangs and the like - sexual favours in exchange for gifts - just a whole other level up with private jets and meeting celebs on offer rather than free cigarettes/drugs/alcohol.

prh47bridge · 11/10/2021 15:41

[quote julieca]@Diverseopinions if he is so stupid as not to ask an obviously teenage girl how old she is before having sex, then he should not be allowed out.[/quote]
If he had asked her he would have found out that she was over the age of consent. However much you insist she was a child, it is not a crime for a man of any age to have sex with a girl who is over the age of consent.

Blossomtoes · 11/10/2021 15:42

[quote julieca]@BoredZelda I have come out at that junction. The low sun is not an excuse, if you cant drive with low sun and the issues it causes, you should not be driving. But they don't tend to prosecute extremely elderly people for driving offence unless someone is killed. Instead they usually just insist they give up their licence.[/quote]
The sun low in the sky is a problem for all drivers of any age in the winter months. Sunglasses make no difference if the sun’s directly in your eyes. Are you suggesting everyone just stops driving in the winter months? What about the habitually speeding driver?

Diverseopinions · 11/10/2021 15:43

Juliaeca
.In terms of being a decent human being, I totally agree with you.

Diverseopinions · 11/10/2021 15:45

But Andrew is saying he never met Virginia - so it's hard to develop a theory as to what he did and why.

Blossomtoes · 11/10/2021 15:49

And a 17-year-old in England is a child

They’re not. They can get married, ffs! The age of consent is 16. As you very well know.

julieca · 11/10/2021 15:52

16 is the age of consent in England. But legally you are a child until you are 18. The UN has been putting pressure on England for some time to ban child marriage.
You can keep saying 16 is not legally a child in England. You are wrong.

milveycrohn · 11/10/2021 15:53

I can't stand Prince Andrew, and he comes across as very arrogant.
However, the case in the US, is not a criminal case. It is a civil case, persued on a no win, no fee basis.
I understand the police in the US (FBI?? or similar) looked into it, but again presumably decided there was insufficient evidence.
To me, it feels that this is being raised continually by anti Royalists, and / or Meghan supporters.
That said, I don't believe in a monarchy myself, but basically dont want it to disappear as such, but to just lose some of its relevance.
(There is also the constitutional aspect, I know)
Also, it has been said PA is the Queen's favourite, no idea why?

julieca · 11/10/2021 16:00

@milveycrohn the police in the US tried to interview Andrew many times and failed as he refused to be interviewed. They cant make him be interviewed. So they dropped the enquiry. This does not mean they have judged there is evidence or there is not evidence. But without him agreeing to meet there was no way forward.
A civil case is different and he can be compelled to either appear in court or to be judged in his absence.

Gonnagetgoing · 11/10/2021 16:00

@Diverseopinions

But Andrew is saying he never met Virginia - so it's hard to develop a theory as to what he did and why.
of course he met her. That photo of them together isn't fake.

and this woman apparently saw them together and agreed to testify against him

www.thesun.co.uk/news/16261801/woman-prince-andrew-virginia-giuffre-sex-assault-case/

zafferana · 11/10/2021 16:01

And a 17-year-old in England is a child.

Maybe so, but the age of consent is 16, so not illegal. You keep on saying the same thing, but the law is the law and until such time as it changes, a 16-year-old can legally have sex with anyone else who is over 16.

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