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Elton John

300 replies

GreenLunchBox · 03/10/2021 23:34

I love the Dua Lupa song and there is a Blue song I love. But please can people tell me why Elton John is so legendary. He doesn't have the best singing voice, does he?

OP posts:
Haveyoubrushedyourteethtoday · 04/10/2021 11:00

@Grumpasaurus

Oh and Someone Saved My Life Tonight
Masterpiece!
Innocenta · 04/10/2021 11:06

@BalloonSlayer you said - "Freddie Mercury's voice was quite rough"

He did not have a "rough" voice. That's a travesty of a description. I know multiple present-day opera singers and critics who really rate Freddie's voice - as did Montserrat Caballé, who was one of the great voices of the late twentieth century and eventually collaborated with him. Freddie's vocal quality certainly varies a lot because he toured so much and had quite severe throat problems, but when he's in good voice, he is incredible. Not of course a trained operatic singer! But he's held in high esteem for very good reasons.

ShagMeRiggins · 04/10/2021 11:15

[quote BalloonSlayer]@innocenta eh??? Freddie Mercury was an example i gave of a great singer[/quote]
I’m not debating Freddie vs Elton—they’re both great—but interestingly Elton John is credited with a somewhat wider vocal range than Freddie Mercury.

Music is so subjective, I believe.

Also, re the general thread, show me anyone whose vocal quality is the same at 74 as it was at 24, whether famous or just your neighbour. Bodies deteriorate, even the vocal cords. Even Pavarotti couldn’t hit his old notes when I saw him perform (he was roughly 65 at the time). He was still brilliant.

And finally, I quite like Dua Lipa! She has a richness in her voice that is absent from many of her generation. If I want vocal gymnastics I’ll listen to the wonders that are Mariah Carey, Christina Aguilera, or Ariana Grande. If I want purity of voice and technique I will listen to opera. If I want a belter I’ll go to the West End. If I want soul sounds I’ll head for Van Morrison, or Elton, or Nina Simone. So many more to list...

I love music. Grin

Innocenta · 04/10/2021 11:33

@ShagMeRiggins Everyone I've discussed it with certainly feels Freddie has a greater range (as well as, obviously, the superior voice). I'm not doubting that there's someone out there who may feel differently, but that's not a standard view!

Ariela · 04/10/2021 11:40

*disclaimer: I was there in the 1970s

Believe me he could sing back then a LOT better than many punk rockers.

Like many he has aged = voice not so good.
If you've heard more recent Paul McCartney he has the same issue.

LobsterNapkin · 04/10/2021 11:42

@Zilla1

It would be interesting how many of the singer song writers or song-writing bands who, unchanged, would pass the current standards of appearance and shiny-ness to succeed in a Tiktok 5-second decision making about a short video world. In practice, many would adapt but the songs that would be lost. I'm not sure how many of the commercially-successful song writers write whole songs now. I was chatting to a pop-song composer who just worked in collaboration with about 30 others before the artist and producers both took the credit and NDAs all around. This composer's speciality was collaboratively polishing the melody line. Others specialised in hooks or rhythm. I know many older singers never wrote a note and old song-writers wrote often in partnership and music is a collaborative medium and there are still one-person outfits but it all felt so corporate and sterile.
That's really interesting, it explains why so much pop music is forgettable shit. Basically the same process as a lot of big budget films.

There's nothing wrong with singers who don't write, that produces some great things. But writing by committee is like making compilations of many faces to produce one perfect, lovely face. Lovely, but entirely bland.

MostlyCloudy · 04/10/2021 11:49

@FluffyBooBoo

Is this his goodbye tour that started in about 2017?!

It was planned to be a three year tour (many world tours are two or three years long) and started in September 2018. So by my reckoning, due to COVID, he's only about a sixth of the way through.

But why let facts get in the way of a cheap joke.

I don’t think a sixth means what you think it means.
orangeautumnleaves · 04/10/2021 11:57

@Innocenta totally agree about Freddie's voice. Astonishing range and thought of highly amongst many opera singers.

As much as l like Elton, just no comparison!

meadowbleu · 04/10/2021 12:27

No, he doesn't have the 'best' singing voice, particularly if you're only judging from his output in recent years, although 'best' is so subjective, but he has been singing through seven decades and his voice has been worn and damaged for a considerable amount of time.
He could certainly breathe properly, hit and hold all the right notes, phrase his songs perfectly and have the stamina to both sing and play for long periods of time.

You have to look so much deeper OP, so much deeper, appreciate all his skills, not just the tone of his voice and then you have to put his legendary fame into the context of when he first became hugely successful: the contempories, the genres and what society was doing at the time. He has become a legend without the benefit of conventional good looks, sex appeal or even an undisputed wonderful personality.

I haven't seen him in concert since he did a comeback tour of just him with his piano and the percussionist Ray Cooper. It was fantastic, proving that he wasn't just a gimmicky showman in a Donald Duck costume who could hold the attention of a 400,000 strong live audience in Central Park, although the sheer joy of Get Up and Dance still lightens my heart to this day
nysmusic.com/2020/09/13/40-years-ago-elton-john-rocked-central-park-dressed-as-donald-duck/
Contrast that with the simple beauty of Imagine, both of them performed for around the six minutes mark. He's written music, played the music, with his amazingly talented co-writer and his band and performed and sustained that over such a long period. You've only got to look at the illustrious names he's collaborated with over so many years to understand the respect afforded to him by other top musicians
www.allmusic.com/album/duets-mw0000107584
and the fact that over the years he's been so supportive and nurturing to new talent, including starting his own record label. He's said he doesn't want to stop and he continues that tradition and keeps moving forward despite his age.

He's done all of that whilst enduring a long period of personal turmoil, battles with addiction and seismic changes in the music industry. He may well be a difficult, demanding and unpleasant diva at times, I can well believe it, although I think he has a sense of self now and can laugh at himself and his behaviour too. I wouldn't have booked to see him this past 10 years as I feel he lost an awful lot of the qualities he used to have when performing live, but again - context.

This extract from a Washington Post article in October 1989, is mainly about the Sun newspaper, you may be unaware of just how bad things were back then and how the public could turn on their idols.

all of these were mere peccadillos compared with the Elton John affair. "ELTON IN VICE BOYS SCANDAL" quoted the accusations of a young male prostitute code-named "Graham X." He claimed to have provided the rock star and his manager with at least 10 "rent boys," each of whom was paid nearly $200 and all the cocaine he could snort for homosexual favors during a lurid weekend in 1986. The article included the requisite pious closer in which Graham X justified his seamy revelations: "I am ashamed of what I did. I am speaking out to show how widespread this sort of thing is and to warn other gullible young kids to steer clear of people like these." According to John Sweeney's detailed account in the Independent, the Sun had paid nearly $4,000 to Graham X for the story. He was in fact a young procurer and hustler named Stephen Hardy, and the only problem with his tale was that none of it was true. Elton John had admitted years before that he was bisexual, and many friends, reportedly including Mick Jagger, advised him to lie low and forget the article because challenging it would only goad the tabloid to attack harder. John refused. "They can say I'm a fat old sod, they can say I'm an untalented bastard, they can call me a poof, but they mustn't lie about me," he said at the time. John's lawyers filed suit. And as his friends had predicted, the Sun struck again. "ELTON'S KINKY KINKS" and "ELTON'S DRUG CAPERS" followed a few days later, alleging he had demanded that young male prostitutes be drugged up on cocaine and brought to his bed. Next day: "YOU'RE A LIAR, ELTON." Elton John sued again. And again. In fact, before the affair ended, he sued 17 times. By then, according to Sweeney, the Sun had let loose the dogs of war. A half dozen reporters were put to work full-time on the story. The newspaper also hired John Boyce, a convicted pimp and con man who was told to hunt up other rent-boys and secure affidavits at $3,000 per statement. The Sun's editors "turned around and says to me, they says, 'by the way, can you dig up any kind of crap on the guy?' " Boyce told a television interviewer. "And we used to bring people to hotel rooms and they would tell us that they had an affair with Elton John and you know -- I mean it was all pure crap."

I really felt for him during that period and admired his courage in fighting back.

Elton finally found the courage to come out as gay and to start making a stand against the awful prejudices in society. His global Aids foundation has run since 1992 and gone from strength to strength, like his career, it was no flash in the pan and supports those who are suffering most from prejudice as well as illness.

www.eltonjohnaidsfoundation.org/about-us/our-mission/

Despite the personal attacks, the tantrums, the addiction and losses, in Bernie's words he is still standing and still creating.

I hadn't heard the collaboration with Dua Lipa for Cold Heart, it's a mashup of a couple of his old songs. Not particularly my cup of tea but those songs have obviously stood the test of time. Infact look at his back catalogue and just see how many people have covered his music. Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word by Blue with Elton goes back to something like 2002 and I doubt their voices are all that now, but the performance has endured.

So in summary, I could be here all day listening fantastic songs, favourite pieces. I still listen to Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, a double album from the 70s and there's not one track I don't like. Do some research, there is so much more to him than being a 74 year old artist who may not have earned his status. He's still a pianist, a song writer, a performer, a celebrity, a knight of the realm and charity campaigner. I think that qualifies him for legend status and then some.

LobsterNapkin · 04/10/2021 12:32

I find the claim that some, like Billie Holiday, or even Rod Stewart (whose music I don't really like, he always seems like a slimeball), can't sing, is odd. They don't have standard operatic or modern "R&B" type voices, sure, they both have a distinctive vocal quality, but that is part of their appeal. And are actually good singers.

I get the sense that some people don't really have much sense how hard it is to sing a pop song. Though given how many people get up to sing what they think will be an effortless karaoke tune and totally blow it, you think they would.

Grumpasaurus · 04/10/2021 13:04

@Innocenta I know, so many were lost, and Elton has said I think in the past he has a sort of survivor's guilt. Poor Freddie :-(.

meadowbleu · 04/10/2021 13:12

I should apologise for the length of my last post. Once I started thinking back I found more and more to talk about and then fell down a rabbit hole that's taken up my whole morning with watching You Tube. Elton John, David Bowie, Queen and Freddie Mercury, Freddie with Montserrat Cabellé, George Michael, George with Elton, with Freddie with Aretha Franklin. All of them outstanding.

I'm not here to downplay people newer to the music business or people who are in it just for fame and money, but looking back at those performers at the height of their fame, the passion and absolute pleasure is clear to see as well as the accomplishment. The way Montserat and Freddie look at each other towards the end of Barcelona, you can see that union of like minds, the respect and how they enjoyed their performance.

The love and respect between Elton and George Michael is really moving too.

HaveringWavering · 04/10/2021 13:21

How? It's splitting hairs to print out that Elton John didn't singlehandedly write the soundtrack? It's not splitting hairs to point out that didn't write the soundtrack, he co-wrote 5 songs, and he didn't write the actual score. Give credit where it's due.

@tofuschnitzel nobody said that EJ wrote the SCORE though? They said “soundtrack”. I don’t think anyone was accused of devaluing Zimmer’s instrumental bits when EJ got the Oscar for best original song.

HaveringWavering · 04/10/2021 13:23

EJ and Tim Rice got the Oscar, I should have said. I don’t think there are many people who don’t realised that EJ doesn't wrote his own lyrics.

TrampolineForMrKite · 04/10/2021 13:29

I love his voice but I can see (hear?) that’s it isn’t objectively a “good” singing voice. He’s still brilliant though and as others have said, he’s a great songwriter and a showman. Seen him live several times and he can put on a show even in advancing years. I always like singers with unusual voices like I fancy ugly men though, maybe it’s me.

Innocenta · 04/10/2021 13:40

@meadowbleu I'm very happy you posted that! Freddie was extremely sick already when this was filmed, so it was a particularly huge accomplishment. He looks strange because he was on such high doses of medication and suffering a lot of side effects, including bloating/water weight. I think it was incredibly brave to continue appearing in public, even rarely, when his appearance had changed so much (and he'd always been profoundly insecure about his looks: he had an eating disorder, etc). But that's Freddie - brave to the hilt. He and Montserrat are magical together. ❤️

HaveringWavering · 04/10/2021 13:56

[quote Innocenta]@meadowbleu I'm very happy you posted that! Freddie was extremely sick already when this was filmed, so it was a particularly huge accomplishment. He looks strange because he was on such high doses of medication and suffering a lot of side effects, including bloating/water weight. I think it was incredibly brave to continue appearing in public, even rarely, when his appearance had changed so much (and he'd always been profoundly insecure about his looks: he had an eating disorder, etc). But that's Freddie - brave to the hilt. He and Montserrat are magical together. ❤️[/quote]
I wondered if it was actually sung live though, as neither of them seems to be mikes up? I know opera singers don’t tend to need mikes though.

AuntieMarys · 04/10/2021 13:57

His early 70s stuff is great. Don't get me started on the Diana version of Candle in the Wind.

Zilla1 · 04/10/2021 13:59

@LobsterNapkin yes, it did remind me of films by committee and I suppose comedy and TV too with 'writer's rooms. Feels a little soul-less to me for music. I know technology allows someone to make a releasable recording in their bedroom but it feels different to a band like the Specials, learning instruments and play when most (bar one?) were young and writing some timeless songs except covers, so Ghost Town rather than A Message to You, Rudy?).

BorderlineHappy · 04/10/2021 14:02

I really like Dua,her voice is unique.
And when she was slagged for her dancing at a concert.
She didn't moan she got on with it and worked hard to improve.
Madonna just has the whole package.
Her ballads especially are very emotive.
She doesn't get the credit she deserves.

Innocenta · 04/10/2021 14:07

@HaveringWavering According to Peter Freestone and Jim Hutton, the Ibiza performance was live.

HaveringWavering · 04/10/2021 14:10

[quote Innocenta]@HaveringWavering According to Peter Freestone and Jim Hutton, the Ibiza performance was live. [/quote]
I wonder how the sound worked? I couldn’t see hidden head mikes or anything. Possibly they performed live but the video has been overdubbed?

meadowbleu · 04/10/2021 14:21

@Innocenta I have lost myself watching interviews with Montserrat, including this one

And again go to 1hr13 or something

I saw that broken in to segments as well and one part where she says he loved me and I loved him. She spoke about the freedom he'd given to her to experience singing for the pleasure of singing and expressing herself and that music transends appearance or age.

I think that's what the top musicians do, they don't just take to a stage and perform or interpret someone else's work, it's from the whole being and transmitting that so everyone feels included and valued. It's a generosity and I think Elton has that too as shown by his movement between genres and his collaborations.

I think Elton has been quite lucky given the times he's lived in, to have kept his health and ability to keep on going.

Innocenta · 04/10/2021 14:26

@HaveringWavering I'm going to see if I can find out the answer to this. Will report back if I have any success!

@meadowbleu I totally agree with you that Elton has this same quality! And yes, very lucky to be as well as he is and to have kept performing for so long. He may not be a favourite of mine in the way Freddie is, but I still have huge, huge respect for him. And of course he also has struggled with so many demons, including bulimia, poor man.

jay55 · 04/10/2021 14:33

He performed as a surprise guest at a Justin Timberlake and friends concert I went to.
He performed a 15 minute version of rocketman and was one hell of a showman. Utterly electrifying.

His voice was in better shape than Barry Manilow but not as good as Rod Stewart, both of whom
I saw around he same time.

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