If a police officer arrested you like Wayne Couzens?

[faithfulbird20]

Unfortunately it's taken losing Sarah to such a horrific crime to ask such a question. But what are we supposed to do. Someone arrests you off duty and you don't know whether u can trust them due to this case. What would you do? Ring 999 and say I'm being arrested by so and so but I don't know if he's on duty or if he's dodgy please can you log it somewhere. I just want to know if I'm definitely being taken to the police station I feel unsafe. There should be some sort of law. But what could you do? You've got no chance. No chance of safety. It's scary.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

Sadly there are a lot of corrupt cops about who aren't going to give two fucks about what your rights are and whether you object to being arrested by a male police officer.

I read this thread about a black teenage girl who was handcuffed for 'talking back'. I suspect it's a pretty common occurrence.

NO Most cops are decent people doing a hitty job to keep people like you safe and are expected to take verbal and physical abuse all day Afew poor people in all jobs

@MurielSpriggs

Any officer will be happy for you to call 101 or 999 to get their collar number confirmed. Officers in Scotland can ONLY arrest people in pairs.

I can vouch for this as I had to report crime a few years ago and they came to the house as a pair to speak to me.

It's a great way to operate. Means they are protecting themselves too.

This thread is increasingly detached from reality! There is something of a difference from being voluntarily interviewed as a possible witness, and being arrested on suspicion of commiting an offence serious enough to justify arrest.

No need to nit pick. The point is that I was backing up the poster who said they operate in pairs. I see it when out and about too. It's not that unusual in Scotland. And I have naively been thinking all forces across UK operate this way 🤦🏻 glad this thread has been an eye opener.

NO Most cops are decent people doing a hitty job to keep people like you safe and are expected to take verbal and physical abuse all day Afew poor people in all jobs

The difficulty with this is that it took a hell of a lot of officers to look the other way - those who knew about him exposing himself to mcdonalds' staff - those who nicknamed him 'the rapist' - for Couzens to be able to do what he did.

How does this sit with most cops being decent people? I'm not disputing that some are, but the evidence suggests that, as a class, they will cover up their own wrongdoings before they will protect the general public. And this was a contributory factor to poor Sarah Everard's death.

Really don’t understand the point of this thread.

You have more chance of being hit by lightening 10 times over than being murdered by a police officer (am obviously not referring to lawful killing of armed criminals).

The police I’ve known are some of the best and bravest people I’ve met, willingly putting themselves in danger everyday to protect others. I think it’s time they were shown gratitude and respect.

I was always taught in school if a police person approaches you or someone knocks on your door to always ask to see their ID badge to check if they're genuine, and as I got older I'd always remember this, but started to think "how would I actually know that what I'm looking at is genuine?".
I honestly wouldn't know the difference from a real ID to a fake one unless it was blatantly obvious.
It makes me sick to think he used his warrant card to gain lovely Sarahs trust.
Something needs to be put out there so more people know a police persons 'rules' so we know what they're allowed to do and definitely not do. Even though i know the system is corrupt so this wouldn't really make a difference.

I don't really know the point of my post other than to vent really.

Years ago,I was pulled over at midnight on a country road,four miles from the nearest village.
I was on my own,there were two male officers in the car. They checked the registration,asked me where I was going,then said that if anyone asked,I'd been stopped for a breathalyser test. But they didn't breathalyser me,just sent me on my way. To this day,I don't have any idea why I was pulled over or why they patently made something up. This has made me think about it again,and wonder what I'd do in the same situation now.

I've been thinking about this today too. I remember being told years ago that if an 'unmarked' police car pulled you over while you were alone in your car and not many people around then you should just keep driving to the nearest police station, and that if they were genuine police they would understand that and not accuse you of resisting arrest or something.

Not sure what the best advice is if you're on foot like Sarah was, but I guess in the first instance, we should advise people to never get in a car with just one man, police or otherwise. I always say to my daughter that even if they hold a knife to you, still don't get in - better to be hurt outside the car than suffer whatever else they have in mind once you're in the car.

@TheFnozwhowasmirage

Years ago,I was pulled over at midnight on a country road,four miles from the nearest village. I was on my own,there were two male officers in the car. They checked the registration,asked me where I was going,then said that if anyone asked,I'd been stopped for a breathalyser test. But they didn't breathalyser me,just sent me on my way. To this day,I don't have any idea why I was pulled over or why they patently made something up. This has made me think about it again,and wonder what I'd do in the same situation now.

That just sent a chill down my spine🙁 so glad you were okay and nothing untoward happened to you.

So a while ago I was bringing dd to an appointment on a school day. She was in school uniform. We sat separately on the train. A man engaged her in conversation. I intervened and he flashed a warrant card and then desisted. But I had no idea of it was a genuine warrant card or even if it was what his intentions were.

Once, on the run up to Christmas, I went for a christmas drink with my activity group and, when I left, put a CD on quite loud, wound down the windows, and started singing as I drove home.

Probably normal behaviour for a drink driver. So, although I hadn't had a drop of alcohol, in retrospect it was probably why the police followed me from the pub and as soon as we approached a pull in they put their blues on and stopped me.

I was breathalysed in the dark, nowhere near houses, on a road that didn't have any traffic whilst I was there. I was in sorry officer mode and did everything asked of me, even though I knew I was innocent.

As soon as I saw the reports I remembered that feeling.

I do think this will change attitudes to the Police now. It will change mine, that's for sure. I won't stop for them in a place like that again. They can follow me home or to a well lit open garage or something.

Supposed to ask to phone the station to check their ID card is legit.

I am barely following this story because there is only one part of the story that interests me -- but no one is talking about that anywhere - oh well. MNers want to hysterically flap that every single male on the planet is a predator instead. And even I have picked up on that tidbit of what to do, If the arrest feels 'off' then ring the police numbers to check that their warrant card is legit.

"Happens more than you might imagine" was the comment that came with the advice.

No need to nit pick. The point is that I was backing up the poster who said they operate in pairs. I see it when out and about too. It's not that unusual in Scotland. And I have naively been thinking all forces across UK operate this way 🤦🏻 glad this thread has been an eye opener.

Sorry, and fair enough @HarrisMcCoo, but really the point of all this is what can be done in the more unusual situation where an officer is acting alone.

I do think this will change attitudes to the Police now.

Finally! There are some of us that have been banging this drum for years and only now are some people noticing that maybe we didn't just have a 'chip' on our shoulder.

@MurielSpriggs

No need to nit pick. The point is that I was backing up the poster who said they operate in pairs. I see it when out and about too. It's not that unusual in Scotland. And I have naively been thinking all forces across UK operate this way 🤦🏻 glad this thread has been an eye opener.

Sorry, and fair enough @HarrisMcCoo, but really the point of all this is what can be done in the more unusual situation where an officer is acting alone.

It's okay 👌🙂

Yes, no idea what else can possibly be done in that situation if they act alone. Wish there was an easy answer to prevent a similar tragedy in future...

How many of us go alone in ubers and taxis though? Such a risk too.

I don’t think poor Sarah stood a chance.He would have used force and taken her even if she did resist. Men are strong and you can’t really physically fight them off of they are determined.

I think ringing 999 is the best solution. If you're calm about it a bona fide copper would be happy with you doing this.

Trouble is they would just force you if they wanted to rape and kill you.

@NerrSnerr

Because its now happened to a white woman, suddenly now people are sitting up and taking notice. I agree with this.

I also think it's really easy from our armchairs to say that we'd scream and shout or refuse to get in the car. He had planned this so had almost certainly planned a script. We have no idea what he said to her or how much he threatened her. I'm sure she was suspicious of him but the reason she was murdered was because he is an evil bastard, not because of her critical thinking skills.

The reason why it's such massive news is because it is really rare. I haven't heard of a police officer pretending to arrest someone to commit a serious crime on them, but happy to be corrected on that.

Unfortunately it’s not that rare for random men to pretend to be plainclothes police officers though. I’ve posted on another thread about a mugger who was doing this on Coldharbour Lane for years, with an apparently genuine warrant card he’d obviously nicked from somewhere, and a guy on a train between Woolwich and Lewisham trying to get people to leave the train with him. And those are just ones I’ve personally witnessed.

Like fuck would I ever let a lone plainclothes cop within grabbing distance - I would treat them exactly like any other random man approaching me, because I’d assume they were fake.

@Stopsnowing

So a while ago I was bringing dd to an appointment on a school day. She was in school uniform. We sat separately on the train. A man engaged her in conversation. I intervened and he flashed a warrant card and then desisted. But I had no idea of it was a genuine warrant card or even if it was what his intentions were.

Police have a duty to check on lone children on a train trafficing or runaways spring to mind

I think it is incredibly naive to think that there is anything a victim could do in this situation. All the suggestions would work fine if you were being arrested by a decent human being who was sympathetic, especially at the moment. If someone is a rapist and murderer they are hardly going to apologise and let you go if you demand to be allowed to call 999.

@Cloudyzebra that is true, if somebody wants to abduct/rape you, they will do it.

I suppose I am just saying “don’t assume somebody is ok just because they claim they are police” - in the two fake cop situations I witnessed, one guy was trying to get your wallet under the guise of “checking your ID”, and the other one was approaching women on a train (ie somewhere safe) and trying to get them to go somewhere less safe. So in those two situations, thinking “you aren’t a cop” would help you stay safe.

He didn't have a police car that would be my red flag its pretty hard to fake one of those and hide evidence not have it back for the next shift etc.

I have don't know what id do but perhaps scream at least run, fight back for dna traces.. Hair..

Poor bloody lady.

As a aside what really upsets me, esp as my dds hit older age is that taxis don't seem to be safe anymore.

On various local fb pages I've heard of one trying to get someone dd to sit up front and hold his hand.. Another was thrown out in the middle of nowhere because he was flirting and she was rude to him.
Another was hitting the curb abs snorting something.. Another was clearly drunk and all these people reported it... Too... Drum roll...

The taxi company!! What's wrong with people!!

@toothpicklover

Trouble is they would just force you if they wanted to rape and kill you.

Yes, but if screaming for help on a busy high street you’d like to think someone would call the police/intervene. Maybe they wouldn’t have done then if he had a warrant card but now after this case people would maybe have doubts and try and stop it.

I would hope that following this the police would introduce some (really quite simple) measures to ensure that, in the very least, officers who have been accused of a criminal offence...you know, like indecent exposure... aren't allowed to carry on their merry way.

1. Suspension of duty, on full pay if necessary. Innocent until proven guilty and etc.
2. Surrender of all police issue equipment. Car, uniform, warrant card etc etc. Severe consequences if refusal to do so. No exemptions.
3. Automatic referral of case to another force. I get it, policing is a high pressure, often dangerous job. They shouldn't be expected to investigate their own officers and colleagues... it's a massive conflict of interest and no doubt it's difficult to seriously investigate someone who you might be relying on to have your back in a dangerous situation in the future (if they are found innocent obviously) police on another force may still have some bias which isn't great. But its less likely to be personal so hopefully lead to a more thorough investigation.
4. An independent body that victims can appeal to if they believe their case hasn't been dealt with seriously. To include not just police people but also experts in the field... be that dealing with racism, or VAWG, or whatever else.