US or U.K. or Europe? Where to live

[Polestarsim]

We've been trying to buy a house in this insane market for over 2 years. This along with the U.K. seeming more and more unstable we've started to rethink if here is the best place for us to live. The government seems to simply not care and people are turning on each other for trying to access basics like healthcare and fuel rather than look at the central failings of the government. There seems to be no ability to forward plan.

So we've started to wonder if maybe we ought to move completely and start over. We can legally reside anywhere in the EU, U.K. or U.S. Where would you choose?

I dont know Porfre. I don't profess to be an expert on recruitment in multiple European or Scandinavian countries.

I gave my opinion, based on my experience, as the OP asked. So kindly back off.

@Strokethefurrywall That's interesting choice I hadn't thought of. Are the schools really good enough even through secondary? I'm surprised to hear you say property isn't extortionate. Any steer toward which island to look at?

@Skysblue Northern Italy sounds enticing. We'd need an international school though. Maybe in Milan.

We moved back to the UK in 2019 after 15 years in Belgium and are very happy to be home again. We both got pissed off with Belgian bureaucracy and how hard it was becoming to do even small things easily.

Health care was better, but cost of living was sky high.

If we could all move to the US I would.
Although it would have to be a democrat state, with gun control, and ethnic diversity.
We loved America much more than I was expecting when we visited.
From the news it appears racist, gun toting and scary - maybe it depends where you go.
Where are your family in the USA?

I've lived in all 3 and the US has suited me the best hands down. It's easy to disregard the US (especially with all the America bashing I see on MN), but choose the right area and the quality of life is outstanding. Many American cities (not just NYC and SF) are liberal, diverse and tolerant. I'm in Pennsylvania just outside Philadelphia in a very liberal area (no Trumpers here). The public schools are excellent-- and not particularly large as someone up thread reported. My kids are not sporty at all, but there opportunities for the arts, music, theatre, stem etc. I get health care through my job: this is common in most professions. I realize this is a privilege and many struggle. I wish there was less disparity. Saying that, the health care is so good. Hospitals are well resourced, very little waiting, brilliant doctors. House prices are reasonable, petrol cheap, though food is getting more expensive. It took me a couple of years to settle in, but I honestly would never go back to the UK knowing my standard of living would drop dramatically.

[quote everythingbackbutyou]@Cybercubed, why do you think it's easier to move to Canada?[/quote]
Don't they have a points system similar to Australia and New Zealand? I think they have something called the express entry system. Canada has a net migration of 300,000 per year and Trudeau has been aiming to get it up to 400,000 post pandemic.

I never been there, but I have Canadian citizenship so its not something I've looked in in great detail but from I'm told from others who've done it its easier relative to the US.

@Polestarsim yes the private schools are very much on par with highly rated schools in the UK and apparently through secondary are good too. My kids are only 10&7 so we’d only consider them schooling in UK or US if they excelled in an area that another school could provide excellent scholarships for.
How old are your children?

@Autumngoldleaf - the Cayman Islands are one of the most monitored and restricted places in the world.
It’s true there used to be plenty of money laundering happening way back in the day, but in reality it’s not like that at all any more. All businesses have to adhere to a very high standard of International rules and comply with said rules.
There is no ongoing income/council/property taxes, however we have to pay for health insurance/high import grocery bills/7.5% one off stamp duty on property, so yes we get “taxed” a huge amount.

From a tax structure POV of course entities will always choose a country which is tax neutral which is not illegal, and makes it easier to do general business with.

Are there any countries which meet your main needs in the EU? If so, I'd be tempted. Britain is going downhill, and the USA has so many deep-seated issues.

@marthawashington

I agree I actually think America is very underrated in some ways given how much its bashing it gets.

Its worth noting America is not a monolith, New York is different from Texas, which is different from California, which is different from Montana, which is different from Alabama, which is different from Hawaii, which is different from Colorado, which is different from New Hampshire.

The great thing about the US is the huge amount of cultural diversity, different landscapes, weather. If you don't like one state you can move somewhere very different hundreds of miles away.

The quality of American healthcare is actually excellent, its just the accessibility and who gets it is a huge problem.

America is a great country if you're college educated and have decent income, quality of life would be better than the UK under those circumstances IMO.

Wow can anyone move to cayman?

@colouringindoors

I dont know Porfre. I don't profess to be an expert on recruitment in multiple European or Scandinavian countries.

I gave my opinion, based on my experience, as the OP asked. So kindly back off.

I'm actually asking for myself. But nevermind.

@AdoptedBumpkin Thats what I really don't know. I feel I know the least about living on continental Europe. DH grew up there but it's such an expensive place it just doesn't make sense. I was really hoping to see which countries other people had lived in and found it worked well.

I wouldn't mind paying higher tax though if it guaranteed good healthcare and educational opportunities.

@Autumngoldleaf

Wow can anyone move to cayman?

Likely you will need to be a needed worker or rich and an investor in Cayman businesses. Some islands also accept self-employed independent persons who have significant income so will contribute by purchasing in the local economy.

I’m British living in the US and we do have a higher standard of living than we did in the UK. But, you do need a good salary to achieve this and if anything goes wrong like losing your job, it’s tough here.

One of my biggest issues, however, is guns. We live in a very diverse, liberal area and many people here are in favor of gun control, but gun violence is still prolific. It’s got worse and worse over the last few years. Tbh, if I could return to the UK without disrupting my DC’s education at a crucial point
( DD is 16), I would just to feel safer.
Yes, I love the cultural diversity and the “can do” attitude here, , but it’s not a safe country. I agree with PP’s that Europe might be your best option.

I live in Massachusetts so one of the bluest states in the US. I have never seen a gun except in the holster of the police. We had 'obamacare" (thanks to the republican Gov. Romney) long before obamacare. Schools are generally excellent. We were one of the first states anywhere to declare gay marriage a constitutional right. We have abortion laws in place that would go into immediate effect should Roe v Wade be overturned. our attitude to covid was very like Ireland's - and we have a republican governor. Our kids skiied and skated in winter and sailed in summer. We are close to beaches, mountains, lakes, ski-areas etc. Lots of town-sports for next to nothing. As someone said america-bashing is a part of MN but living here is really easy in so many ways. I have the nicest neighbours ever. I know if I call my police station someone will be out immediately. The world-class university on my doorstep used to run free lessons/music events/halloween things for the town's children. it is a really great place to live.

BUT ... it is an entirely different culture and speaking the language only gets you so far. it took me years to get used to things. there is a different history/cultural references/sports etc.

On top of that most Irish people I know who moved here 20 plus years ago - including us - and are very happy and successful here now agree that we wouldn't move today. the politics are different and the republican party is different and the supreme court certainly is different. The anti-vax/mask thing in certain states here is insane. We are very glad we have EU passports and another home in Ireland. Everything you said in your OP about the UK could equally be said about the USA right now. Starting with Gringich and culminating with Trump, things have got very very ugly here.

@Pallisers. Perhaps I should move to MA. I’m further down the East Coast and we have daily shootings here-nine in one day last week. ☹️

.

I also agree that things have changed significantly over the past few years, pallisers. We have a good life here, but I feel less hopeful then I did when we moved a decade ago.

@Cameleongirl Are you in Atlanta?

[quote Polestarsim]@Skysblue Northern Italy sounds enticing. We'd need an international school though. Maybe in Milan. [/quote]
There's an international school in Varese, just north of Milan in the Lakes. It's a beautiful area and very easy travelling to France, Switzerland etc.

Nope. 😉

another thing to consider is that in the US anywhere with a decent way of life and good schools etc will be unlikely to have cheap real estate. Yes you can buy a huge house on a couple of acres. But you then live there often with poorly-funded public schools and public services. you get what you pay for. I pay city, state and federal taxes. My city taxes fund a decent school system, excellent police and fire/emergency services, a city that provides services to the elderly and those in need, and that funds parks, pools and swimming ponds for the city's children.

Also, if you planning on sending 3 children to university in the US, think about that. Our children's university education costs between 58k-68k per year. If they went to state universities they would pay about 25-30k per year. if you are high earners you will not get any financial aid (and will get lots of requests for additional donations). Go on the Harvard admissions website and put in what you think your assets/income will be around then for an idea of what the price tag of a non-state university education would be for your children.

sorry when I said it cost 58-68k a year I meant for each of them.

We’re just starting the college process for DD( she’s in junior year) and the cost is eye-watering.