US or U.K. or Europe? Where to live

[Polestarsim]

We've been trying to buy a house in this insane market for over 2 years. This along with the U.K. seeming more and more unstable we've started to rethink if here is the best place for us to live. The government seems to simply not care and people are turning on each other for trying to access basics like healthcare and fuel rather than look at the central failings of the government. There seems to be no ability to forward plan.

So we've started to wonder if maybe we ought to move completely and start over. We can legally reside anywhere in the EU, U.K. or U.S. Where would you choose?

I'm a complete homebody and love the UK so would stay here, but I would seriously consider Portugal. Beautiful warm country and I have a dear Portuguese friend, she's so down to earth you can hardly see her ankles It's not a rich country and I think would probably have a lot of bureaucracy but I would seriously consider it.

I adore America and to actually live there id consider lots of states - maybe Georgia, Kentucky or New Jersey simply because I know people in all three states living great lives. My first choice would be California but it's so expensive I can't really imagine it - if I could, I'd look around Sacramento maybe, or Pasadena as I have a massive soft spot for LA.

If it were me, I'd choose northern Europe, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium. I wouldn't ever consider living in the US, it seems in so many ways backward and primitive, going back to the 19th century.

Ok I would give some more thought to the language issue.

Can you afford international school if any of your children do struggle in regular local schools, or if local schools are terrible?

Would you be okay with living in a bit of an expat bubble if some of you don't pick up the language?

You say you think you'll pick it up but be realistic -- after work and kids and everything else, how much time can you devote to it? Will you be able to cope with not speaking the local language for a long time, all the limitations that imposes?

I would suggest focusing on places where English is widely spoken eg Netherlands, Germany

Berlin is good for English but state schools are not great, but the bilingual schools are actually not that expensive if you can get a place, so perhaps worth looking at

Also you say work is portable but do look at the tax implications of different countries. German tax rules for self-employed people can be more onerous than in other places.

Also think long-term about university, if you leave now I'm pretty sure your kids would have to pay international tuition at UK universities (which is an absolute fortune)

The thing with the language, if you are going properly to live somewhere and not just drift around the edges, you have to learn it. And wouldn't your children pick up a new language, sooner or later, through school, activities, mates? If it is an issue, then what about Ireland? Though they have to do Irish at school.

@dreamingbohemian I think if we moved to the US the kids would end up going to university there. I can't see much value in paying through the nose for U.K. university when there are so many in the US (where it will also be a small fortune!).

Housing in the U.K. is an absolute fortune compared to most of the US. Yes we'd need to pay for healthcare but it would come through DH's work and it isn't that much once you're on a group policy and you do get a level of care that just doesn't exist in the U.K.

I think overall I'm leaning toward the US because it would be the easiest transition for the kids and I just don't have a decent European alternative that I can come up with that would be worth the hassle of the language barrier.

I wish the U.K. was looking more stable but it just seems to be getting worse and worse. It's better to move the kids now than to wait but it's still fairly heartbreaking.

Where would you live in the US though?

Housing in the US is even more expensive than the UK in many cities.

UK universities are absolutely better value than the US, for one thing it's 3 years instead of 4, tuition is lower, the student loan system is more generous etc.

And you definitely need to do more research on health insurance costs, even if you're on a group policy through work you will probably be shelling out at least $1000/month with a high deductible.

(I'm American, now living in the UK btw)

@Polestarsim UK will be fine. Yes it's going to pots at the moment but it has ridden many storms in its history and will ride this one

EU - Western Europe. Netherlands, Belgium, France, Luxembourg or Germany. With the caveat to either put your kids in private school or that they know the language to an extent.

I wouldn't be staying here in the UK if i had other options.

EU. We moved back to the UK from the US last year - cost of living (assuming you’ll be in East or west coast) in a decent school district for the kids is really high, groceries, utilities etc also high, along with cost of any childcare, such as nursery or after school clubs etc

Our (well, my) deciding factor to move back was politics, racism and guns (am fully aware UK isn’t better in lots of ways) You can live in a relatively liberal state but still have large % of absolute right wing bellends

Would you consider Caribbean offshore?
I live in the Cayman Islands and it probably offers much of what you want.
Beautiful weather and beaches obviously, little crime, excellent schools (both British/American curriculum and IB), private healthcare and close to US to go for treatment if the need arises.
Housing is probably on par with the UK but you get more bang for your buck for sure.

Depending on what you/your husband do, it could be a “best of both worlds”?

i think overall I'm leaning toward the US because it would be the easiest transition for the kids

Why do you think this? Just because we speak the same language in many ways the cultures are miles apart. There are definitely places in the EU that would have be am easier transition.

Europe. Without a doubt.

Although the language side is easier re US, don't underestimate how different US culture is to UK. I've worked with Americans and Europeans and honestly, never want to work with Americans again. Totally different mindset. Also no maternity leave and minimal annual leave.

So Northern Europe or places like Denmark, Netherlands who top life satisfaction surveys, excellent work life balance, healthcare etc

If I could live anywhere I’d choose Bermuda, or San Francisco, or Northern Italy - probably somewhere near Milan. Or perhaps Germany. Or Luxembourg. Definitely not France, too much anti-English feeling.

But it depends what languages you speak, no?

Personally, in your situation, I'd go for somewhere in the EU.

Its not been mentioned here but the US is an incredibly difficult country to move to in the first place. You either need a company transfer or to be sponsored by an American saying they're unable to hire someone local.

Why not Canada?

Much easier to move to than the US, doesn't have the lunatic right wing, lower crime rates, very multiracial. Even Australia and New Zealand (once the borders open) would be easier since its a points system (which the US doesn't have).

@Cybercubed

Its not been mentioned here but the US is an incredibly difficult country to move to in the first place. You either need a company transfer or to be sponsored by an American saying they're unable to hire someone local.

Why not Canada?

Much easier to move to than the US, doesn't have the lunatic right wing, lower crime rates, very multiracial. Even Australia and New Zealand (once the borders open) would be easier since its a points system (which the US doesn't have).

The OP has already said that they have US passports, so immigration will not be an issue.

Stroke the furry wall, cayman islands sounds so enticing but I Can't help instantly feel its a tax dogde place.

@AlexaShutUp

Oh apologies I didn't see the "legally reside" part of the bottom of the OP's post.

Have you thought about moving to Boston? There is a large community of Brits here. It’s like the UK in many ways. Has great schools, lots of culture, museums, green space. You won’t find many trump supporters in Boston. You can walk everywhere. It’s also got the lowest gun related crime in the US. I never think about guns. I have never seen anyone have a gun except for some police. Public transport is amazing. The only downside is the living cost. Rent is about $2500 a month for a one bedroom flat, groceries would set you back around $200 a week, and healthcare would cost you thousands a month. But I love Boston and the people here.

i can't agree with the perception that UK is going to Hell in Handbasket (maybe wrong, fair enough). Both left-wing & right-wing Americans think their country is going terrible, too, just for very different reasons.

We chose not to live in USA.
Not to do with current issues, just Too rat race where my (much loved) relatives are.
I don't like the general politics & lifestyle, too.

Netherlands or Spain for me, assuming I only had OP's considerations.

@Cybercubed, why do you think it's easier to move to Canada?

I'd go for somewhere in Western Europe.

@colouringindoors

Europe. Without a doubt.

Although the language side is easier re US, don't underestimate how different US culture is to UK. I've worked with Americans and Europeans and honestly, never want to work with Americans again. Totally different mindset. Also no maternity leave and minimal annual leave.

So Northern Europe or places like Denmark, Netherlands who top life satisfaction surveys, excellent work life balance, healthcare etc

How easy is it to find a job, if you dont speak the language in places like Netherlands?