A thread for people trying to decide whether to have children or not

[DeathOnTheNile]

Recently, there have been a whole bunch of threads about children and regret, and it's been great to hear from both the perspective of people who chose to have children and those who didn't. But it occurred to me that there must be people like me who are still trying to work through the decision to have children or not, and it might be useful to get a thread going?

So, me: early 30s, married for several years. Both DH and I are in professional jobs, with me earning a little more than him but both of on us on decent-ish incomes. We don't own our own home yet because we've moved around a fair bit for work, but we're looking to buy in the next 6 months or so and have a fair bit of money saved up.

Having kids was always one of those things I thought I'd feel like doing at some distant point in the future, but I never gave much thought to the specifics of it, nor was I ever broody - and I'm still not! If DH really wanted a baby I'd agree and vice versa, but we're both pretty indifferent/unsure. My main concerns around having children are the obvious ones like fears around not getting any time to myself, losing my identity, the impact it'll have on my body and our marriage. Plus, we both love our sleep and holidays! I love having a quiet, clean home, and when I spend time with children they do irritate/tire me out immensely. The irreversible nature of having children is what frightens me the most, frankly - every other decision in life can be reversed except this one. I can leave my marriage, change my career, change anything at all, but I couldn't ever change my decision to have a child if I went down that path. That's absolutely terrifying to me.

On the other hand, I look at the large family I grew up in and I see what comfort and joy my parents get from having their children and grandchildren around them. Obviously I know that having children doesn't guarantee that outcome (I've seen people around me lose children and also have their children move far away from them), but a part of me does worry about what my life would look like in my later years if I never had children. I also worry about regret if I never took that step, but I am well aware I could regret having children too! I know DH would be a fantastic father and we would also have family support, but that still doesn't spark any particular desire in me to have a child, just factors I know might make it easier if we did.

Anyone else in the same boat? Although realistically I know we have a few years to think about it, I do feel like it's a niggle that will never go away until we decide one way or another.

@HyggeTygge I think often about age being a factor too, which is why I want to make up my mind sooner rather than later. If I am going to have children I feel like I should do it now or not at all - I'm not the most energetic person and I can definitely see the difference between friends who had them in their 20s compared to those in their late 30s and 40s. Of course, some people don't find age has a bearing on their ability to parent well and recover their energy but I'm not sure I'd be one of them!

@DeathOnTheNile that point about never being envious of friends with kids really hits home - as a bystander it genuinely all looks terrible.

But, none of my friends have older kids yet so that may be why? I’m so envious of people who have the urge and just know

On the other hand, I had a long chat with a friend of mine today who has a toddler and another on the way, and her life to me seems like such a hard one.

It is hard, there's no escaping that. You might have a super easy baby or a crazy energetic toddler but you're essentially another person's slave for quite a long time
I was never that interested in my friends' kids but mine are fascinating!

“I feel sorry for people who don’t have DC as I wonder what on earth they have of significance in their lives to talk about!”

🙄 there it is, that didn't take long 😂

This is completely relatable. DH and I are mid-30s, good jobs, own an expensive house in a good area, plenty of savings... so on paper very much sensible to have kids. BUT - I'm terrified of the responsibility. The lack of controlling what my child will turn out like or what happens to them - this was driven home recently by a relative who had a brilliant childhood but ended up with severe addiction problems and not being able to lead a functional life.

I love holidays. Before Covid I planned to take a year out to travel then settle down and have babies, but that's been scuppered and I'm now at an age where it's unlikely I can go off travelling like that and have a baby. When I'm on holiday I love lie-ins, switching off and reading. The thought of a tantruming toddler and reading threads here about how painful holidays with kids can be really puts me off. But then I see people teaching their kids to swim or paddle in the water and think that looks lovely.

The day-to-day stuff seems really exhausting too - I'm already tired after a day at work, never mind then coming home and doing dinner, lunch boxes and school uniform for someone else. But I do have an urge to create a family and legacy with DH. We both have very small families and we like the idea of being a unit. I lost my last grandparent recently and it gave me such a strong feeling of needing to carry on my family, since there's no-one else that will do it. I'm a real worrier, so I don't know how much is just anxiety that I'll be a bad mother or that something will go wrong with the child

Saw this today on the Guardian, which made me think of this thread:

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/04/what-i-tell-friends-torn-about-having-children

Great idea for a thread. So many people think that women either want children, or never wanted them, with no options in between. And yet its so much more complicated than that for some of us! I would honestly say that I thought about the issue every single day for around 20 years!

I was around 20 when I read an article about how not having children could be a definite, positive choice and it was like a thunderbolt. 'Thats the life for me', I thought. Well, yeah...... It all got a lot more complex in my early 30s! I'll never know how much was biology and how much was feeling surrounded by women having babies or planning to have babies and feeling immense pressure to do the same. And things were not good at all with my own family, and a big part of me was absolutely longing to create a family of my own. It was really really painful and to an extent, still is.

I always knew deep down though that the relentlessness of parenthood, the never ending responsibility, was not for me. I really think it would have made me miserable. So now I'm nearly 42, and won't be having children, and I'm as sure as I can be that it's the right decision for us, if not an uncomplicated one

So to those of you who love peace and quiet, a tidy home, the freedom to do adult stuff, to pursue your own hobbies and interests and passions - I absolutely hear you. And I would ask why ON EARTH we are questioning ourselves so hard about throwing children into the mix. Peace and quiet and adequate rest and living your life mostly for yourself - these are precious things, and we should not be giving them up lightly. If you also find children stressful / irritating / tiring (all perfectly understandable), well I think you have your answer.

@MilloMay Great article, thanks for sharing. I particularly like this part "Fear of future regret is a powerful drug, but it can only be a theoretical fear and, contrary to popular propaganda, having children isn’t the only achievement that counts in a woman’s life. Children aren’t insurance policies or promises of companionship in your dotage. They’re just people, and they come with all the exhausting irritations that we all bring to the party. Some of us, for whatever weird reason, really need that in our lives. But to those who don’t, I say, don’t bother, and congratulations."

Speaks exactly to your points @Lottapianos - it does feel sometimes like I'm trying to force myself to want to have children even though I know it threatens to erode a lot of the things I value in life. I'm glad you were able to make the right decision for you, as complex as it is.

I have a few more points I'm thinking through too. I know a lot of us, including me in my opening post, cite having good jobs and incomes as almost a prerequisite to having children. However, people have children in all sorts of circumstances and so they should - having children shouldn't be tied to someone's financial circumstances. If someone is a minimum wage earner and will never earn more than that, should they just never have children? My parents certainly didn't think the way I did and had children in their 20s, well before they had the house, the white picket fence etc.

Another thing is that all decisions we make in our life are a product of social conditioning to some extent. I've done many things in my life because it was the 'done thing' e.g. go to university, work a professional job, so I'm finding it interesting that I'm giving so much thought to this idea of whether I truly want a child or whether it's social expectation driving me. How much can the two ever really be separated?

Having a kid is irreversible though - the others you can change or adapt. Would you really have gone to Uni if you were thoroughly unsuited to it/hated academia etc?

Do you think you have a gut feeling either way OP? I'm a terrible over-thinker but on this I decided it was actually too impossible to decide rationally (for me - others will obviously clearly lean one way or another more than I did) so just... went with it. Possibly if I'd been less comfortable financially, had less family/friend/community support, had health issues, had doubts about my partner, had felt like I hadn't 'lived' enough - maybe I'd have chosen to wait/not to.

My partner was similar but also enthusiastic!

Can you 'try on' a decision - pretend for a week or so you've decided to definitely do it/ not do it and see how you feel?

I just remembered - we'd lived abroad in a really fun place and I think that sort of helped to focus things as it involved committing to things longer-term (like sorting out where we'd live, visas, etc). We could have stayed there indefinitely but decided actually we wanted to be near family and start a family of our own.

Same boat OP, I haven't met someone yet and at 39 I know time is running out but im also not feeling that urge for kids.

What I have started to come to realise is we are lucky to been born and this world is something we can experience, we don't have to do all the experiences though. Having kids is an experience this world has to offer but we don't have to do it. The world also offers us the chance to experience its beauty and thats something we can choose to do by travelling etc

I think when I see the world and my place in it in that way its much more easier to put aside society and culture pressure

Annoyingly I just wrote a very long post and it didn't come up!! I'll try and be brief this time...

I became pregnant unexpectedly in my early 20s so had to run through all these questions in a matter of weeks (wouldn't recommend...!). Ultimately I couldn't go through with a termination so we had our son. We were first parents in our friendship groups by a long mile, and were not "ready" in many ways, but it was the best decision we ever made. We just suddenly became ready when he arrived and have grown into the role as he's grown! I think that happens at every age. Now our friends are catching up and starting to have their first babies (we now have 2) and it's fun watching the process (we are deemed gurus these days haha).

Parenting is hard and often relentless but it also brings a joy and fulfilment that's hard to describe. You just love them so much and your life feels fuller. You kind of live your favourite elements of childhood all over again (trips out, games, learning etc). Yes it's tiring, and we don't have much adult time, but there's always ways and time to have sex if you want it. Date nights are extra special and appreciated. Time alone with friends even lovelier. A spare hour to sit and read a book, heaven. You still do the things you like just in more treasured amounts. And remember, they do get older! The intense years dont last forever. Before you know it they'll be a teenager refusing to come out of their room and you'll have plenty of lie ins. (On sleep, we just let each other sleep in and alternate, so it needn't be that bad).

With career, I'm v lucky that I own my own business so have been able to really thrive as a parent, managing my own time and work patterns. And me and my husband take it in turns being main caregiver. I would have struggled if I'd had to go into an office or do shift work with tiny children - so that's something to bear in mind. But as it stands I've become far better at my job: more efficient, don't procrastinate, don't sweat the small stuff, more ambitious. I work in a creative industry and find it's opened up tons of ideas and I relate to things differently now. I think Sharon Horgan once wrote something about how efficient she became post babies which is good to read if you're keen.

Re the comments on having a child with additional needs, our son is autistic, and he's amazing. Yes the fighting for support is frustrating and wearing, but you also find a community like no other and it's all worth it. Disability as an abstract concept might seem frightening - and I've educated myself a lot over the years - but when it's your child it's just your child who you love. Our daughter is NT and she's no "easier" to deal with, if anything she's more demanding (!).

Anyway this is just my two cents. Life absolutely can be fulfilling without kids and it's not something to go into lightly. But for me it's been the best thing ever, and all the people harping on about the bad stuff I'm now like - why?? It's mainly great. Actually, at a work event once when pregnant with my first a man came up to me and my husband and said: "I know a lot of people talk about the lack of sleep and the dirty nappies, but having children is the most fun you can possibly have. Enjoy!" I think of that a lot, and fondly!

Lastly, there's a podcast called Maybe Baby which might be worth a listen. They spend series one deciding whether or not to have a child (and spoiler, series two they've had one!).

Lots of food for thought here. Would love an update on what OPs decided. Reading these posts was like reading my exact feelings on this issue!

Bear in mind it’s not obligatory to have more than one. Our life is good but hard with one lovely DD (I was desperate to have her, tried for over 4 years and had IVF) and I think having any more would make an overall good life we all have just be a stressful mess.

Having one child we can both have a full time career, both have a day on our own with her, have weekends as a family, only pay for 2 days a week childcare, I’ve only had to go through pregnancy and childbirth once (neither was great but I’ve had no long lasting health effects and DD is healthy), we have some time for ourselves, things have been tricky in our marriage since she was born and we’ve had time to work on that, family babysitter is easy to get, financially we’re in a good place etc etc.

Don’t get me wrong it’s still been hard but your list of “not getting any time to myself, losing my identity, the impact it'll have on my body and our marriage. Plus, we both love our sleep and holidays!” Is all a bit easier with one provided you have a hands on partner.

I get 2-3 hours to myself every evening after DD is asleep, 4 days a week I have an hour lunch break to read and go for walks, and every Saturday morning DH gets up with her and I have a lie in, plus every few weeks I’ll go out with friends or for a swim or a massage and he’ll watch her. I’ve also taken a week off and left her in nursery 2 days to have that time. So I do still get time to myself even if it’s less than before.

I don’t think I’ve totally lost my identity either as I still work full time, was promoted after mat leave etc but I am very family focused now.

Impact on body is unpredictable but I seemed to be back to normal a year after emergency c section, scar is very small.

Impact on marriage is the biggest one, we really need to make time for that and not take each other for granted. It is possible with one child I think.

Sleep- can take turns with partner for a lie in.
Holidays- we still go on them, but do have to focus more on parks and play areas and kid friendly museums compared to before.

Having DD has been the best single thing to happen to me, I love the family with a kid life, but a childfree life can of course be wonderful as well. I understand the worry about the irreversible nature of the choice. Unfortunately nobody can make the decision for you and it’s a hard one!

If you're not sure, then surely the answer is "don't do it". There is just too much risk, for both you and the child(ren) - it's not like you can send them back if you're not keen!
And it's not just about the hardship of the baby years....
Speaking as a 50-something childfree person, I just find it a huge relief not to have the stress and anxiety that my friends seem to go through with their adult children.... it never ends.
You can enjoy a good life.

It's good to really think about it as it is life changing. And hard. Very hard.

Can understand the pp worried about autism. Autism is shit. (I have had a bad autistic weekend) Parenting autistic kids is really hard. Being autistic is really difficult.

You don't know what you are going to get when you have a child. There is a big unknown. It's not just autism. There are so many things that can go wrong with you and baby. Not all of them are visible in scans. Then there's just their personality which might be different to yours.

The slog of school runs is hard. And it might not just be primary school. My disabled child still gets taken to school in sixth form.

Childcare is expensive and difficult to organise. There is lots of juggling. You either sahp and lose money or pay an arm and a leg for childcare until they are 11.

There's no guarantee that your kid will hang around and look after you/visit when you are old. Kids move away.

Honestly, unless you really really want them, the long hard slog and endless grind may not be for you.

If you do want kids, stopping at one is a lot easier as there is less juggling.

So life on the otherside here. DCs are 19 &17, I loved having little ones, we instituted a routine so they slept through from 3 months ish. BeIng a mother has brought me so much joy, days in the park or at baby group or swimming lessons are so much more pleasant than being at work.

Some of my happiest times were days with the children before they went to school or days out in the holidays.

pck

They continue to enhance my quality of lift now and I am starting to both pick up outside interests, but also involving them in things like live music, theatre as well as sports. It's wonderful. Oh and my body is as good as you can expect at 47, bit saggy but a healthy weight and no stretch marks.

Has anyone who posted here decided conclusively either way I wonder? What helped with the decision?

I’d agree. I never planned to have children, was briefly ambivalent, and then decided to ttc aged 39, and conceived immediately. DS, now 11, is wonderful, and I’m very glad I had him, and that I made space for a life experience that is in fact so far way more interesting than I’d envisaged. I don’t observe a happiness difference between friends who were desperate to have a child and those who were ambivalent. Or that either group is a better or worse parent.

Yes, such an interesting thread!

DP and I are 33 and our main reservation is that we just want to do so much in life still which would be exponentially harder to do with a baby - move abroad to drive our careers forward / earn better, take a sabbatical and go backpacking for 6 months - 1 year, ultimately settle back in London but be able to afford to live more centrally, etc.

I think by the time you’re in your 30s life is just so great and there’s so much to give up. I do love babies though and I worry a lot about ‘future regret’.

Arghhh it’s a touch decision and we’ve only got a few years left to decide.

'Has anyone who posted here decided conclusively either way I wonder? What helped with the decision?'

I'm 43 now, and I don't have children. The door is definitely closed for me. I feel a whole mix of things about that - relieved, grateful, peaceful, as well as raw, sad and sometimes envious. So I'm still somewhat ambivalent, but I'm ok with that, more or less.

What helped my decision? Knowing myself very well, and really being clear that I am not cut out for the relentless nature of parenting. I also worked with children for 20 years and was realistic about what children need and what I was prepared, and not prepared, to give. Absolutely no rose coloured glasses here! I'm as sure as I can be that I made the right decision, but I also feel that the odd wistful or even painful moment is normal and fine

I had 2 DC at a young age so they're now in their 30's. One is adamant they are 100% not having kids. The other is somewhat ambivalent about it.

I'll be honest, I support them not having DC. I don't regret mine for a second but the responsibility is so huge. And, if you're a good mum, you will feel that responsibility for the rest of your life. It doesn't matter how old they get. You will worry when they have a bad break up or job woes or health issues etc etc. Yes you have the payoff of spending nice times with them but it isn't just a case of well they're adults now and they're on their own.

Of course if I did have a grandchild I would love them dearly but I would worry about them too. The world is in a mess and life can be hard. People do have more choices in life now and I think deciding not to have DC is a perfectly valid one.

I assumed that having a child or children would be hard and completely change my life and it did. But personally I adore my dd. I never had her for company in my old age or any rubbish like that, I just like the fresh view of the world that children bring

What a lovely thread! A few of my friends are pondering these very questions. Most of us late 30's annoyingly aware of this biological clock nonsense and the fact that we may have to make decisions soon-ish.

I for one have traveled a fair bit and lived in a few different countries now, have a stable career and financially secure and happy with DH. I also have a very supportive family so I think if anyone were to be ready to jump in, it should be someone like myself. However, that moment of clarity and decisiveness escapes me.

I don't seem to have a burning desire for a child and am quite content with life. I think whether you have a child or not there are many things you can do to have a fulfilling existence.

I had an experience about two years ago when I got pregnant. It was an accident and neither of us were prepared for it. Initially I swung from moments of despair to excitement and about 2 weeks after I found out I settled into the mindset of preparing for motherhood, and DH to be a father. When I miscarried at 11 weeks I was devastated. I don't think anything had ever felt as awful. It's like nothing else mattered compared to that all important role of mum. I felt like what was the point of everything else? what was the point of my job? in the grand scheme of life what was that compared to being a mum? what was point of planning a holiday? in the grand scheme of things going on holiday was nothing compared to being a mum etc. The grief was real. Well, suffice to say after I processed my grief I sort of just went back to normal.

I think the experience has taught us that if we were to have a kid we would step up, but if we don't we'd also be fine. We're not "trying" but we're not "not trying". I just don't have the same abject fear of it that I had before but am fully aware that it could be a miserable experience or a joyful one, but most likely a mixture of both. Is it ok to be ambivalent and not be fussed either way?

From friends who have kids their happiness levels are generally dictated by the level of support they have from DH and/or family (I know some that have gone at it alone and rely heavily on family). For my friends who are unhappy (like long term unhappy) it's never been about the kid. I think one thing it does do is that if you have cracks in your relationships it just exacerbates them ten fold. Some of the things that my friends ignored about their partners/families before kids were just really palpable after kids. Those are just my observations so far. Of course then there's PND and that's a whole different ball game. There are many factors that are out of control about parenthood IMO. Things that will smack you in the face whether you're one of those people that 100% knew you wanted to be a parent or whether you were unsure and just decided to take a chance.