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Geronimo

93 replies

FleasInMyKnees · 31/08/2021 19:14

Was it really necessary for all those police and officials to go in and round him up, trapping him in his shed and leading him out with a rope. Why couldn't a vet have dealt with this, sedated him, put him to sleep quietly without all those people scaring the daylights out of him. I understand the police might have been expecting protestors but there was no welfare shown to this poor animal.

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StopGo · 01/09/2021 10:03

I hope a post mortem is carried out. I have been vaccinated against TB and always test positive to a Heaf test. I do NOT have TB.

Booknooks · 01/09/2021 10:10

@cricketmum84

It made me very angry and upset and like a lot of PPs this is entirely down to the owner. She knew that her last appeal had been turned down and that they would come for him.

She should have had her vet put him to sleep quietly and gently in his own stable. Instead she selfishly let them drag the poor animal away causing untold distress to both him and her other alpacas. She should be ashamed of herself.

She wasn't even there when they took him. She just wean inside her home and hid while they were dragging her apparently "beloved" animal around.

Shameful.

I agree, plus she profits off exploiting alpacas, it's not a sanctuary or whatever so I don't get why people aren't outraged about that.
StMarysKettle · 01/09/2021 10:14

It's just an animal. Upsetting for the owner, sure, but some of you are way too invested in something which really doesn't have anything to do with you

Mrsjayy · 01/09/2021 10:18

This was tragic but if the owner was so concerned about her animals distress she should have admitted defeat and let him be euthanized calmly that poor creature but it was allowed to happen and be put all over media platforms

cricketmum84 · 01/09/2021 10:33

@StMarysKettle

It's just an animal. Upsetting for the owner, sure, but some of you are way too invested in something which really doesn't have anything to do with you
And the most pointless comment of the day award goes to.....
Resilience · 01/09/2021 12:20

My view is that the end should have been carried out differently and that there are lessons for both 'sides' as well as some wider questions to be asked about animal farming.

I'm not an expert on Bovine TB and I doubt anyone on here is either. I share the misgivings a lot of people have about the testing procedures. I am concerned that money and politics might override science and that in future we might find this testing approach abandoned. Certainly if it considered flawed DEFRA should he transparent about it. History shows these things tend to come out in the end. I also find the fact that HM wasn't allowed to obtain her own test rather bizarre. However, ultimately this has been a 4-year legal battle which went through the High Court on appeal. The law can be an ass as the saying goes but I'm fairly confident that over 4 years every argument has been discussed at length. Unless we want to abandon our judicial processes in this country and take matters into our own hands every time we get a verdict we disagree with, we have to abide by the ruling.

My natural sympathy is towards HM (and Geronimo). I understand her perspective. However, she's clearly an intelligent woman who knew what the planned intention was - Geronimo's euthanasia. Therefore, she should have had a contingency in plan for when the battle was lost, however much she intended to fight it to the end and believed she might win. If it had been me in her situation I'd have had my own vet (or one of the several supporting her) on standby and when DEFRA arrived been ready to ask them to wait outside the enclosure while Geronimo was gently euthanized in his home environment with me present. Easing the last moments is the final act of kindness an owner can give.

That said, I think DEFRA could have perhaps suggested and facilitated that option when they arrived rather than plan to take him away and contribute to his stress. Perhaps they did. Or perhaps they discounted it because the presence of protesters would have made that impossible. We don't know.

Ultimately, the stress caused to Geronimo was down to him being chased around a field, handled by strangers, and taken to a strange facility on his own. The protesters have to bear some culpability for that. It was obvious at the point where the authorities turned up and explained their intentions that the outcome was unavoidable. At that point it would have been kinder to step back rather than wind up the poor animal and contribute to his stress.

There was nothing DEFRA could do to avoid causing that additional stress without HM's co-operation - other than not take Geronimo. Short of government intervention at the last moment, which didn't happen, they had no choice but to go in and take him.

The police were there to prevent a breach of the peace by protecting DEFRA staff. They did not seek the warrant nor have any involvement in the decision making about his death. Yes, the police are supposed to be impartial but that doesn't extend to ignoring the law. Their overriding remit is to uphold the law. In this case the law said Geronimo had to be euthanized and that anyone preventing this was breaking the law. The police cannot pick and choose which laws they follow.

There are some huge questions to be asked about intensive animal farming and if anything good comes out of Gerinimo's death I hope it is a renewed, productive discussion about this. As humans we evolved to eat meat. The real debate is not meat eating v vegetarianism but how meat eating can be facilitated in a way that properly respects animal rights and environmental concerns. We may all have to accept that eating less meat and paying a lot more for it is the only way to enable this if farming is to remain viable under higher standards.

Passmeamenuatthetottenham · 01/09/2021 12:25

I am not a huge animal lover, but I felt so sorry for Geronimo and those scenes were upsetting. He wouldn't have had a clue what was going on, no idea that those protesters were trying to 'protect' him, would have just been really distressed and scared. And the owner allowed that to happen, for what? He could have just quietly and calmly been killed with just her and the vet with him.

Moonbabysmum · 01/09/2021 12:38

Once all legal avenues were explored, once she's appealed to the government and it failed, and it became evident there were no other options to save Geronimo, the kindest thing would have been for her owner to put on her brave girl pants, provide love, reassurance, and arrange for a vet to euthanise him in his sleep.

His death in the end was as inevitable as if he had terminal cancer (though obviously by legal decree), the owners choice was whether to let it reach a terrifying and unpleasant end for him, or a painless and fear free one.

I'm not sure he deserved to die, and i think more testing should have been allowed. But his owners let him down in the end.

ThePlumVan · 01/09/2021 12:47

@Resilience what a thought provoking response.
I too hope something good comes out of this in terms of questions asked and procedures currently in place.

She was right to challenge, and challenge to the end, but ultimately that animal was her priority. He should have gone peacefully all be in, unnecessarily.

Florelei · 08/09/2021 13:58

So it looks like it didn’t actually have TB. I can’t help but find this utterly disgraceful.

FleasInMyKnees · 08/09/2021 14:03

I know, I heard this on the news too, what a shit show, I wonder how many other animals have been culled unnecessarily over the years. I wonder what DEFRA response will be now.

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wherethewildthingis · 08/09/2021 14:06

The cognitive dissonance in relation to animals in this country is absolutely astounding. I don't understand how treating an alpaca in this way is considered so awful and inhuman, yet cows, sheep and pigs (all of which are sentient animals who express emotions and can form bonds with humans) are subjected to the most awful tortures. And that's apparently fine.

FleasInMyKnees · 08/09/2021 14:12

Of course it's not fine, animal cruelty is abhorrent to most people. What upset people was the way he was rounded up, led away and clearly in a state of distress while being video deliberatly for the media. Perhaps people need to know more about so called animal welfare and what really goes on behind the scenes .

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Florelei · 08/09/2021 14:18

I do think that if more people understood what the meat production industry really entailed, they’d be far more selective about eating meat.

I became vegetarian years ago after my route to my new job meant that I had to drive past an abbatoir.

However, even though I don’t eat meat, I still think it is possible to care about animal welfare and still eat meat.

The way this poor animal was treated was disgraceful in my opinion.

kikisparks · 08/09/2021 14:46

Lots of animals taken to slaughter are distressed. I’m very sad about Geronimo but equally sad about the pigs, cows, sheep and chickens who are suffering right now just because people want to consume their bodies or things that come out of their bodies. They don’t get a quiet, calm euthanasia by a vet. It makes sense though that it’s easier to care about an animal when you’re not contributing to him or her being harmed, but hopefully poor Geronimo’s case will have made some people think about their choices and how they can stop paying towards this happening to others.

ThePlumVan · 08/09/2021 15:18

They murdered him in cold blood, just like they do everything else.

purplesequins · 08/09/2021 15:20

the case gironimo shows that the currently aproved and used diagnostic test is not suitable for vaccinated animals.

but what are defra to do?
stop testing? the potential risk of disease doesn't bear thinking about.

FleasInMyKnees · 08/09/2021 17:02

It's being reported that he did have signs of TB and TB like lesions and that full results will not be available until the end of the year.

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