Geronimo

[FleasInMyKnees]

Was it really necessary for all those police and officials to go in and round him up, trapping him in his shed and leading him out with a rope. Why couldn't a vet have dealt with this, sedated him, put him to sleep quietly without all those people scaring the daylights out of him. I understand the police might have been expecting protestors but there was no welfare shown to this poor animal.

The owner is an absolute joke, she’s the one who caused the suffering instead of letting him go peacefully she dug her feet in, lapping up the publicity, when you love an animal you do what’s best for them not what’s best for yourself.

Bovine TB is literally a slow and painful death for animals, and it can spread to humans too...

And as far as I heard, the alpaca wasn't suffering. Maybe he could have been euthanised if and when his health deteriorated?

DEFRA were shameful in the way they manhandled poor Geronimo. Everyone involved should be deeply ashamed of the appalling suffering caused to this defenceless creature.

Great care of their animals? BS. I don't consider sending them off to slaughter to be great care. That's before you include many procedures that farm animals have to suffer through and what happens to their young. They're just walking pound notes to the farmers. They don't actually care about them. Geronimo's owner hasn't exactly helped there either,

As for suffering I could almost buy that if that was the actual justification but it's not, it's all about making farmers money at the expense of living beings and our planet. Besides Geronimo didn't seem to be faring too badly.

I thought that Geronimo didn’t have skin lesions yet, but the fact he had it for four years would have meant his bones would be starting to resemble Swiss cheese and he’d be in pain and fatigued.

@PuttyPie
How many farmers do you know? I know many as I’ve always lived in countryside and they all care about their animals. They just don’t see them as pets. But even pets get put down if they contract nasty painful diseases....so what is wrong with putting down Geronimo? Nothing at all.

I wonder how many cat or dog owners on here would gladly trot off to get their pet euthanised due to a bureaucratic mandate aimed at "saving" some cows that are shortly destined for the slaughterhouse.

Before anyone says oh farms aren't like that. You should visit one. I'm sitting looking at the farm directly opposite me as we speak.

If caring about me involves exploiting me for money, putting me through painful procedures for monetary gain and not to my benefit,, removing my young to exploit and or slaughter them also then sending me off to the abbatoir when I'm no longer financially beneficial then, I think I'll happily go uncared for thank you very much.

Larry. Bovine tb can.be.passed on to many different wild and domesticanimals and humans. Its not just to save cattle.

Bovine tb is (as the name would suggest) primarily a hosted and spread by cows. If we didn't farm cows, is unlikely that it would be a problem in wild animals.

One of these days we're going to suffer the consequences of a zoonotic disease due to humans insatiable appetite for meat... Oh hang on...

Why haven’t you all read up on the facts about this case before commenting on here.

The animal had the test when he came over from NZ 4 years ago.
To be super safe the owner REQUESTED another test which was positive.
It’s had other tests since but the fact the animal is/was still alive 4 years later without passing on TB to any other animal shows it was a false positive.
The test it had was not confirmed as the right test for alpacas.

Yes the owner should have disputed the test result and the disposal order.
She has animals put down with TB so is not against this process.
No, that animal should not have gone through that today

I'm not disagreeing remotely about the TB test, but there was no way that today should have happened.

We live rurally, and had a horrific amount of badger culling going on around here. It's something that we're not dealing with in the right way for any animal.

@ThePlumVan

Why haven’t you all read up on the facts about this case before commenting on here.

The animal had the test when he came over from NZ 4 years ago.
To be super safe the owner REQUESTED another test which was positive.
It’s had other tests since but the fact the animal is/was still alive 4 years later without passing on TB to any other animal shows it was a false positive.
The test it had was not confirmed as the right test for alpacas.

Yes the owner should have disputed the test result and the disposal order.
She has animals put down with TB so is not against this process.
No, that animal should not have gone through that today

This.

Also, the owner was not expecting them to remove Geronimo from the farm, because you are not allowed to move an animal that has tested positive, so in doing so DEFRA broke their own rules. But they did not want to put him down before all the camera that she had put up.

I feel very sad that the animal was badly handled before he was put down. Had his owner been reasonable he could have met a better end.

Ultimately she has disputed the test results and the destruction order as much as she can do - the courts have repeatedly told her there was no legal reason for him not to be put down. Defra could not allow her to keep on defying the court order for destruction- they had already had it extended by a month in the hope the owner would do the right thing and have him destroyed humanely at home without the circus.
Ultimately defra is a government agency and they can’t keep letting her ignore a court order, otherwise they have less ability to enforce these orders against other people - and the law is very very clear - if your animal tests positive it must be destroyed.

The suffering of her animal was entirely of her own making.

The tests were four years ago. The animal did not appear to be sick.

An open letter by a group of senior members of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (RCVS) expressed "grave concerns" over the British Government's handling of Geronimo's case. Thirteen members of the RCVS, and one former member, have co-authored an open letter that casts doubt on Defra's approach to handling bTB. They concluded that Geronimo's diagnosis is unsafe, and urged Eustice and his team to enter into discussions. (Wikipedia)

Surely another test should have been conducted before killing the animal?

I haven't really followed this story through the summer.

But I've read bits and jobs since yesterday and understand the gist.

I was always for the humane end of life where the risks of an outbreak of zoonotic illness was there because of seeing the consequences (covid!) of allowing disease transmission.

However the bit that got me yesterday and made me move more to the fence was a report that they'll do a PM to confirm if he really did have TB?

Now if there's a chance the owner was correct about not having it and the tests were the wrong ones for alpacas how can a court have ordered death based on them having it and being a risk?

60 years ago, our prize-winning herd of Guernsey cows was slaughtered as some had tested positive for Brucellosis (no treatment in those days). The bodies were burnt on huge pyres that smoked for days and I still remember as a young child seeing legs and hooves silhouetted against the evening sky. We had arable farming to fall back on but this destruction of healthy animals (all known by name) broke my father's spirit even though he knew it was the correct thing to do. Geronimo's owner thought that if she threw him on the mercy of the public via the media then he'd be saved but it backfired badly on her, hence the cameras and police yesterday. Totally down to her.

Most of us who share their lives with animals will have experienced one being euthanised. My experience is largely with my dogs. I’ve been with them as the vet helped ease their suffering and leave this life. Geronimo’s owner should have been with him, helping him be calm as this life ended. Scenes as he was chased, captured and pressed, terrified into the box to be taken to his death were horrific. It suggests the owner wanted The drama to continue, she prioritised publicity over the animal.

when you love an animal you do what’s best for them not what’s best for yourself

All sympathy for the owner for her fight, but when the end became inevitable (which frankly was some time ago), she should have ensured that he was euthanised calmly at home, without cameras and fuss. She let him down badly.

Are people more bothered as alpacas are cuter and fluffier than cows?

TB in humans is treated with antibiotics - why don’t we do that with animals? Is it because they would still test positive?

@Seasonschange

TB in humans is treated with antibiotics - why don’t we do that with animals? Is it because they would still test positive?

partially yes, the animal would still test positive after treatment.

plus tb is a 'dormant' infection. antibiotics will not cure it, just stop it being symptomatic. stress can make it reactivate.

plus costs...

Its front page news in the DF today, what happens now if a post mortem shows that he didnt have TB. If he did have it will other animals there need to be euthanised now.

It made me very angry and upset and like a lot of PPs this is entirely down to the owner. She knew that her last appeal had been turned down and that they would come for him.

She should have had her vet put him to sleep quietly and gently in his own stable. Instead she selfishly let them drag the poor animal away causing untold distress to both him and her other alpacas. She should be ashamed of herself.

She wasn't even there when they took him. She just wean inside her home and hid while they were dragging her apparently "beloved" animal around.

Shameful.