So he got the dogs out and left the people behind?!

[Sillysuzie]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/30/britain-dogs-afghan-people-pen-farthing

and you believe Ben Wallace

And you believe Pen Farthing? A man who swore he wouldn’t leave without his staff then did just that? A man who threatened to destroy a government aide just because he wasn’t getting his own way? I’m not sure he is someone we can take at face value either.

If Wallace was lying, it’s easily proven and nobody has done that yet.

Believe him or not, I was asked for a source for the stuff I apparently made up, so I provided it.

He refused to leave without them. They told him to leave, and take the animals with him.

And he left without them. Regardless of what they told him to do, he had a choice. He made it despite his protest that he would never do that.

What really gets me about all of this is now that he’s back (with the animals) all the supporters have gone quiet - where is the ongoing Twitter outrage & pressure to get the staff back?
Pen & the animals were top trending for days - now it’s ‘just’ about the staff everyone seems to have lost interest. Can the supporters really not see why people would find that disgraceful?

I'm glad the animals were saved. I also hope his wonderful caring Afghan staff will be safe and have a choice in whether or not they stay or go. The US/UK govt have much bigger fish to fry as to why they had failed to stabilise the area and why the Taliban took control so easily.
I would offer a room to a someone fleeing the Taliban and a home to a pet too.

I admire anyone with fire in their belly to get things done.

@MistySkiesAfterRain

They were cleared for a flight but with no guarantee of safe passage through the airport- just take your vulnerable family and try. Who are we to judge their actions?

In the system, they are NGO vets and were never going to get priority over people who served the government.

Yet vulnerable NGO workers do a massive service both in the UK and overseas, filling gaps and in many cases propping up democracies. But the government decide who is more important.

Yes, the government decides. And there are a huge number of people working for NGOs in Afghanistan.

But, rightly, the government recognised that it was those people who worked to support our forces over there, who were/are at most danger. The interpreters, the local guards, anyone that the Taliban would target because they'd helped the UK military. So of course they had to take priority over the local staff of the animal shelter.

And does it bother you the money ended up just being used for the animals?

No, not really. I would have been much happier if the staff had got out as well but that's not Pen or the animals' fault. Anyway, even if it did bother me what do you think I should do, ask for my money back?

So of course they had to take priority over the local staff of the animal shelter.

And, apparently, a British ex-Marine who has served his country.....

And saraclara you still haven't answered my question as to how you would speak and behave if the Taliban were banging at your door. I answered yours.

@Comedycook

I value the life of an animal equally to a human

Not going to discuss the Pen Farthing situation but in regards to this statement @SweetPetrichor...I find your above comment fascinating but also nonsense. Are you honestly telling me that if you trod on an ant and killed it you'd feel exactly the same as if you accidentally ran a child over and killed them?

I would not tread on anything, be it ant or child. I did once tread on a slug by accident and cried my eyes out. I don’t see it as a failing to care for all life. In fact, I’d probably feel worse if I accidentally trod on an ant cause the ant - and animals in general - are just going about their life. If a child ran in front of my car, I’d be sad it happened of course, but I don’t deem it a bigger loss. A child could grow up to be a bad person we all wish didn’t exist…you can’t say that about an ant! Animals hold an innocence that no human ever can.

@Stonerosie67

So of course they had to take priority over the local staff of the animal shelter.

And, apparently, a British ex-Marine who has served his country.....

And saraclara you still haven't answered my question as to how you would speak and behave if the Taliban were banging at your door. I answered yours.

I'm sure I'd be frustrated and angry. But I wouldn't be threatening the person whose help I desperately need. Would you?

And the ex-marine was given every help and the priority to get out on his own.

I'm sure I'd be frustrated and angry. But I wouldn't be threatening the person whose help I desperately need. Would you?

I would if I'd discovered that person was being obstructive and I'd exhausted other options.

Wow, fascinating.
In what way do you think 'animals just go about their life" but humans aren't?
(Do you believe humans are also animals)?

@KimDeals

He sounds like an absolute prick.

He HOGGED army time for his animals - he hogged personnel time getting his papers in order. This is a humanitarian disaster and he’s putting in phone calls about dogs???

How anyone can say what he did was ok is beyond me

THIS! 100%

I'm sure I'd be frustrated and angry. But I wouldn't be threatening the person whose help I desperately need. Would you?

You have no idea how you would behave in that situation, I truly hope none of us ever will. But you cannot sit in the comfort and safety of the life we have here, judging the actions of somebody going through the hellish situation Pen was in.
And yes, if I was in that situation, yeah I probably would threaten anybody trying to block what I was trying to do, which was to save my staff and secondarily, my animals. I think, apart from the most saintly among us of which there appears to be a couple, anyone would...

In fact, I’d probably feel worse if I accidentally trod on an ant cause the ant - and animals in general - are just going about their life. If a child ran in front of my car, I’d be sad it happened of course, but I don’t deem it a bigger loss.

I hope you're not a parent

I'm getting really fed up with hearing about how he @hogged time for his animals'.....what part of this are you not understanding? He tried to get his staff out, and his animals, the whole shebang, everyone and everything to do with the shelter.
The staff were turned back. He didn't just abandon them because he wanted to take his animals. The animals were allowed through, the staff, horrifically, weren't, because of the delays by our shithouse government in getting their papers authorised. He begged on his hands and knees to the Taliban to allow his staff through and they refused.
So go on then, what would you do in that situation?

@Comedycook

In fact, I’d probably feel worse if I accidentally trod on an ant cause the ant - and animals in general - are just going about their life. If a child ran in front of my car, I’d be sad it happened of course, but I don’t deem it a bigger loss.

I hope you're not a parent

Utterly shocking More upset over the death of an ant than a child???? Wtf is wrong with people?!

He had help to load the crates into the hold but it was voluntarily given by soldiers on their breaks, not those on duty. So much misinformation! The animals had all tbeir health certificates already.

There’s a word in the military, it’s voluntold. Soldiers appear like they’re volunteering to do something on their breaks or in their own time, but in reality they’ve been told by someone higher up that they’re to do it, and make no fuss about it. I expect that’s what’s happened here.

Wouldnt you swear and threaten to save lives you are responsible for?

No.

@GrumpyTerrier

I've watched this in detail from the very start, before it even started getting any media attention. There is some awful misinformation on here.

Re the Spectator article-- they have now published an addition to say that the MoD have said that no resources were diverted in any way to help Pen, at the expense of the evacuation effort. They have explicily said that even if he had never been there, no one extra wouldve been saved.

Re the swearing call just consider why a man who is trying to save lives in the middle of a terrorist takeover, would swear at someone who he believes is refusing to help him. Pen had been told to go to the airport then refused entry, then threatened, shot at, tear gassed and nearly blown up. Of course he was angry and swearing in fear and desperation. Wouldnt you swear and threaten to save lives you are responsible for?

• He didnt take any spaces from humans
• He didn't take any time or resources at the airport that couldve otherwise saved humans

-He wanted to save an extra 150 refugees on his plane but was told it was not possible. -The Taliban prevented his staff from entering the airport -His staff made him leave with the animals to save them -He and the team are working very hard now to bring out the staff some other way

It is a terrible situation right now. But turn your anger to the right things. Not upon a man who did everything he could to save his people, who cost no one their evacuation, who tried to save 100+ total strangers but was stopped by the MoD, and who is right now working solidly to find a way to get his staff out.

Spot on. Agree with this post totally 👏👏👏

I would not tread on anything, be it ant or child. I did once tread on a slug by accident and cried my eyes out. I don’t see it as a failing to care for all life. In fact, I’d probably feel worse if I accidentally trod on an ant cause the ant - and animals in general - are just going about their life. If a child ran in front of my car, I’d be sad it happened of course, but I don’t deem it a bigger loss. A child could grow up to be a bad person we all wish didn’t exist…you can’t say that about an ant! Animals hold an innocence that no human ever can.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. Not just on MN, but anywhere.

- He didn't take any time or resources at the airport that couldve otherwise saved humans

Taking a runway slot
Using a plane
Media attention
Public accountability
all used by him and all could have gone towards the humanitarian effort.

in my view you either think this is madness or you have got your priorities seriously out of whack
I can hold contempt for this government AND the actions of Pen Farthing in my head at the same time, I'm not 'distracted" just see is as more evidence of the government following a moronic populist agenda

I actually can't believe another thread has been started on this. There are several others already. I saw the thread title and thought 'oh no, not again, give me strength!'
It's very unfair to say that Operation Ark supporters only cared about the animals. Personally I've wept at scenes of desperate people at Kabul airport, and felt despair when I heard the Nowzad team and families were being prevented from leaving when planned. I'm trying to find out what I can do to help get as many more
vulnerable people out of Afghanistan as possible. I haven't a clue how to go about it?
It's totally possible to care very much about animal rights, and human rights at the same time. In fact they're directly linked, and most animal lovers (in my experience) are kind caring people generally.
Jan Leeming has spoken very eloquently here

mobile.twitter.com/PeterEgan6

You'll find it if you scroll down a little way. I'm not on Twitter, so the link leads to Peter Egan's Twitter account. It really is worth a view...

Well said @WanderingFruitWonderer

The scenes in Afghanistan are heartbreaking but I'm capable of feeling sorrow for humans and animals.

Maybe the idea of having the animals was a plan to persuade the people at roadblocks that these are just a bunch of daft animal lovers and not highly educated women who 'collaborated' with soldiers, so would think 'fuck it, we've got greater threats to our ideology with the lists of translators and staff working directly for the occupying armies to go for, rather than a group of women and kittens' and say 'move on'?

So the animals were camouflage for getting people out in the first place?