Why is it not ok to have openly high expectations of DC

[Tigersteakpie]

Ok so I've been thinking about this all day and I'm still not sure about the psychology behind this.

We are in a grammar school area, not super competitive but you know. It's grammar school.

My eldest DS is about to go into y5. We have started some home tutoring over the summer (using an online 11+ prep thing) and from December onwards he'll be tutored 1:1 once a week as well.

Our DS is not a genius, he's probably slightly above average. But he works hard and has a good attitude. We are keen for him to go to grammar school if he can. We are not pushing it on him at all, but the grammar schools are significantly better than the comprehensives around here, so naturally we'd like him to go of possible.

I'd say that around 50% of his classmates are also being tutored either by parents/online things or by actual tutors.

But there seems to be this unspoken rule that it's NEVER EVER DISCUSSED. Not even if there are a group of say 3 of us together who all are in the same boat, tutoring and begining to prep to take the 11+.

It's almost like it's boastful to even say you are taking it? To admit that you'd hope your child might stand a chance? To admit that actually you would quite like your DC to do well if they can.

On the flip side he also plays a sport. He's pretty good and plays for a localish team that do quite well. There is a LOT of talk about how well the DC do at sports/musical things/extra curricular things.

I just don't get it. Is it just where I live? It's not even as if it's me talking about it loads so people openly avoid it. It's just never mentioned!!!

It’s about the risk of failure I think, the idea that you/he/they would be embarrassed at trying and failing.

Yes in my experience other parents never admit their DC are being tutored or discuss any of it really.

What happens if you do mention it?

Is it a not wanting to show off/be seen as trying too hard thing maybe?

I'm pretty open about my DCs education but I'm not English. (Not that he has a tutor, he's 5...but if someone asked me what book band he was on or if he can add up yet I'd just tell them).

Your title is a different question from your OP, IMO.

(To answer your title) Constantly saying "My ds is going to be a Doctor" from when he is about 5 years old (which is common in some cultures) puts a massive amount of pressure on the child which, to me, is massively unfair on the child.

(To answer your OP) I think it is the opposite of boastful. I suspect people who don't get in, don't want people to know that you attached any importance to it, let alone paid for someone to help them get there. It is more 'hedging your bets' and pretending you are very laid back about it.

@Chikapu I've never mentioned it, to be fair. I'm a bit scared

It's just so strange. I get the fear of failure but we've had a very open conversation with DS about how the tutoring is to help him but if he doesn't 'pass' it's not a fail at all, just a 'that school isn't right for you'.

Also if your kid goes to the comp, it's obvious they either 'failed' or didn't bother!

Once the exam is done and places are awarded I wonder if it will change at all.

Also... Showing off, I get. But they show off about other things. Why is academics different?

It just is so strange.

I'm not British either, and in our culture we are very open about academic prowess. I've been here long enough to understand the lay of the land here but I definitely don't get it.

It would worry me that my son might not get the GCSE grades he'd need to be able to do A levels at a grammar school. There was someone on here the other day saying her son had to leave his grammar school because he was 1 point below what he needed or something and (I don't think) he had anything below a 7. I find my son's comp very pressurised tbh so I can't imagine what Gammar school is like.

As others have said no one wants to talk about it in case their child doesn't get in.

I was very open about my DS having a tutor. The tutor actually wasn't very good but that's another story. Then when DS did well I had a few other parents saying how well their DC did "without tutoring" very pointedly and they clearly had a big problem with the fact that we had chosen to use a tutor.

I think it's partly a money thing. Some people think you have bought your place at grammar school by using a tutor. That wasn't the case for us as DS is very bright but I had been ill and I just wanted to offload the stress onto a tutor. I actually don't think the tutor made any difference as I would have done a better job myself!

People don't talk about tutoring because your child is in direct competition with their child and they don't want you to know their game plan.
Also, if the child doesn't pass most parents will want the option to make it sound like they weren't that bothered anyway.
If you're actually in a grammar area (as opposed to near one) I imagine its a given that all the children at the top end of the ability range will be entered.

I think it's because your kids are essentially in competition with each other. If they had an unusual academic interest, like chess, it'd be fine to talk about, but there are only so many places at grammar school and that makes it awkward.

I've only got a toddler and I noticed it as soon as lockdown started to ease up last summer, and then again this summer. Parents who on whatsapp were claiming to have done very little with their toddlers except 'put them in front of the TV' and then coming out of lockdown to find quite the opposite.

I get that people don't want to be seen as 'showing off' like having some perfect yet fake social media parenting life, I completely get that. What I don't get is why people deliberately and massively underplay what they do with their children. It's fake in a different way, isn't it?

So the nice part of me thinks it's because they don't want to worry other parents. But the cynical part of me thinks it's an element of not letting on to try and trick others into not doing much either. If this is what it's like now god knows what it'll be like during entrance exams and onwards.

I wonder if these parents now are the same girls I went to school with, who swore blind they'd done no revision and then would come in on exam day with copious highlighted revision cards, reciting facts off by heart, and scoring top grades

I think there is a British thing that you don't want to be pushy
I think ppl want to keep their cards to their chest

For us it's that I absolutely don't want DS to ever feel like his best wasn't enough. The more vocal you are the more pressure there is.

This comes from personal experience. I was top of the class all through secondary school, came out with top gcse's in every subject, great things were expected of me. Fast forward 12 months and I was very ill with an autoimmune disease. I still managed to get my a levels and degree but no where near the grades expected of me and the sense of failure was enormous.

My parents never put any pressure on me, they were just loving, proud parents who chatted to friends and family about how well I was doing and what they hoped for me.

I will never ever put my DS in the same position. No one knows what sets he's in, we don't talk to anyone about uni or career expectations. He still knows how proud we are of him.

I find it vulgar and overly pressuring for the dc. I say let the results speak for themselves, no point in crowing away about how amazing and prepared they are beforehand. It seems like tempting fate to me.

Bellagonna absolutely 💯

Anti-intellectualism or British stoicism maybe? Or like the rule where you don't ever discuss money? 🤔

Live abroad and folks are more vocal of their high expectations of their kids.

@MrsToadlike that's really interesting. I think you are right. I just find it fascinating.

Are people worried about being judged?

@Bellagonna I absolutely agree that if I was talking about how well my DS was doing it would be vulgar. But can't we just talk about what we are doing/what works/worries we might have. We've come across lots of useful resources and things which I'd happily share with other people... But it's just not the done thing.

The other day someone in my younger DS's class WhatsApp was asking for a bike riding instructor as her DD is really struggling to learn and they want some outside support/help. Everyone flocked to help her - and isn't this wonderful when parents support each other.

If I posted on the WhatsApp that DS was struggling with verbal reasoning or whatever, it'd be tumbleweed!!!

People can get quite uppity about it for different reasons depending on their financial circumstances and the academic prowess of their child. It seems like an emotive and contentious issue.
With sports I would say that effort and hard work are praised, but money never usually comes into it much. Whereas academic progression can be "enhanced" somewhat with the addition of money, which some people just don't have. This can lead to them feeling guilty that they aren't doing the best they can for their child's future. Bit like private school, you wouldn't discuss it with people who couldn't afford it, and for people who can afford it there probably isn't that much of a discussion anyway.
Add in that there an be an attitude (possibly coming from certain school cultures) that you just shouldn't use tutors, that if your child is clever enough they would just pass the 11+ without tutoring, and somehow getting them extra help is cheating the system. Plus it is competitive isn't it? If the other parent you know has found a fantastic tutor on the cheap, they won't want to tell you anything about it!
So it's all a bit clandestine for a few reasons, and you never know which side of the fence people fall on when discussing these things so sometimes better to avoid the subject.

Ds had to leave his grammar school as he was 1 point below their cut off. It annoyed me as he in year 8 and 9 had a serious kidney issue and in year 9 he had 49% attendance due to sickness, the school was not good at getting him caught up after his operation even though we asked for help many times. 1 teacher had not even been told of his previous issue and was shocked he was catching as much as he was considering how little he had managed the year before. He struggled to get it done himself and got to 1 point below the cut of. ( he had 1 6 the rest were over )

however, having said that. He got into the local church mixed school forA levels he thrived. LOVED going to school made firm friendships and got into his chosen uni where he is about to start year 2. (and if he continues with the grades he got here he will leave with a first) He keeps close contact with his group from the mixed school and looser contact with his core of 4 from the grammar school.

What at the time seemed like a very unfair and horrid experience turned out to be an amazing experience for him he now says he would have loved to spend all his time at the church school and rates it above the grammar school (to be fair it makes better results than the grammar school does but it is nota grammar school)

Ah plus as @MrsToadlike says, people sometimes want to play down how much effort they've put into something, so they can claim afterwards it was all down to just God-given talent. So they don't want to admit to tutoring as this would take the shine off their smugness if their child gets a place, and equally wouldn't want the embarrassment of having admitted to trying so hard and paying so much out if they didn't, iyswim? I know someone like that at work actually

I was open and honest about my DS sitting the 11 + if anyone asked though he wasn’t tutored.
What I will say to the OP is I would be cautious about choosing a grammar school for a child with only slightly above average intelligence and who needs intensive tutoring to pass the 11+. Even if he passes and gets a place , he may struggle. My DS saw many boys get left behind by their extremely intelligent classmates. It does nothing for their self esteem.

Both of my children attend grammar- neither had a tutor. Mainly as I was worried that if they were tutored, they may not be adept to keep up with the high expectations.
My child says that it is obvious who the tutored children are (I have no experience of this so can't comment).
I will say that if your grammar school is anything like ours, the expectation is immense regardless of what barriers the individual child is experiencing. Make sure it's the right fit for him without worrying about how it looks if he ends up at the local comp.

I'm not worried at all about him going to our local comp. I also know that statistically he's more likely to go there.

But I'd kick myself if we didn't give him the chance to try. We did ask him first, certainly no real pressure here. All we ask is that he works hard for his tutor and does 15 mins every other day on Atom. His school set absolutely no homework other than ridiculously easy spellings so I know for a fact it's a lot lot less than his peers in private school are doing!!!

@Susannahmoody

Anti-intellectualism or British stoicism maybe? Or like the rule where you don't ever discuss money? 🤔

Live abroad and folks are more vocal of their high expectations of their kids.

There’s something in the anti-intellectual thing, definitely. Every time there’s a thread about academic prowess or dating someone who’s markedly more or less educated than you are, posters fall over themselves to describe someone they knew with an Oxford doctorate who couldn’t tie his own shoelaces or use a toaster, or had zero street smarts. When in my experience that’s a total fallacy enthusiastically sponsored by people who’d like to believe that academic intelligence means you fall down on other things — it’s highly unlikely to be true. Highly educated people are just as likely to be handy round the house, put together flat pack furniture or navigate you through Central America as anyone with two GCSEs.