Do people really get it

[Wish21]

I'm just wondering if people truly get it sometimes. For example if someone has been lucky enough to have been bought up in a home that was loving supportive was lucky enough to get a good education. Which enabled them to get a well paid job . Which means they can afford a nice home put food on the table afford nice holidays and nice things in general.

Then there are people who did not have that up bringing or a good childhood. They were sexually abused nothing was done about it. They went to a special needs school due to learning difficulties. They never even got to sit an exam. They do not have a standard education there for they will always be in a low paid job. If They are lucky enough to get one . Will always have to rely on some sort of benefit. They will never be able to have a proper home . There's always a risk of Them loosing their home due to landlord selling up or simlar they can't find another home as they rely on housing benefit or UC. So they end up homless in some type of hostel.

Most people don't get it. They love an against the odds 'inspirational' story, but don't care that for most, adverse childhood experiences can lead to a miserable life.

It's far more complex that your post implies.

Of course it is, but let’s not pretend that many kids have the odds stacked against them, they may push through but it’s a much harder road without parental support and basic needs being met, trauma has a massive impact on a child’s capacity for self regulation, concentration and cognitive ability. That doesn’t mean a child with a traumatic past can’t learn, but it’s a much harder process and schools too often simply don’t provide the kind of environment suited to hyper aroused children - I know from personal and professional experience that truly trauma informed practice in schools is very lacking.

It’s not impossible, but it’s much harder.

@54321nought bloody hope you aren't the LAC designate lead/teacher for your school.

You are so caught up in your limited mind you can't even see that by saying the not all children receive a good education might not actually be blaming teachers for this but are talking about an abused and traumatised child's lack of ability to actually engage with education.. because. You know, they have been past from pillar to post in a pedophile ring - of something as equally as awful?

don’t have the odds stacked against them

I don’t think people get it. Recently at a ‘do’ Jade Goodie’s name came up. I said something about her being a bit of a national icon in her day and got lambasted by a very middle class person with privileged upbringing almost spitting out her Pinot noir and saying ‘oh come on she was a racist nasty piece of work, don’t try and maker her out to be some sort of national treasure she was awful.’ Now I remember what happened ‘back in the day’ on BB and don’t want to make excuses for her and of course she messed up but Jades upbringing was pretty dire and she did not have the benefit of the intellectual support that most people do so as a result she was hardly going to be an enlightened progressive or know where lines are drawn if left to her own devises. In essence Pinot noir lady could not differentiate between Jades ‘truths’ and her own and applied her own standards onto her, which I thought a bit meh.

Or perhaps I mean jades ‘lived experiences’ rather than ‘truths’

@Jellycatspyjamas

It's far more complex that your post implies.

Of course it is, but let’s not pretend that many kids have the odds stacked against them, they may push through but it’s a much harder road without parental support and basic needs being met, trauma has a massive impact on a child’s capacity for self regulation, concentration and cognitive ability. That doesn’t mean a child with a traumatic past can’t learn, but it’s a much harder process and schools too often simply don’t provide the kind of environment suited to hyper aroused children - I know from personal and professional experience that truly trauma informed practice in schools is very lacking.

It’s not impossible, but it’s much harder.

Oh absolutely. It makes it SO much harder, and what I was attempting to say in my posts is that the UK social culture and school culture - and funding - is inadequate to address such issues to ensure equality of opportunity. That is the ideal, although with so many confounding factors probably inachievable in a perfect sense. But we could get a hell of a lot closer to it than we are now.

There are reams of evidence from genetics and more recently, epigenetics, that have started to explain why some children may be able to overcome adverse childhood experiences and others not. And also the other side or that; why those genes still exist in such huge numbers within the human population and will continue to do so. We are a long way from structuring society to be optimal in a way that would benefit us all.

I think this thread demonstrates that lots of people live in a bubble and refuse to accept that we live in a deeply divided society.

There's a deeply engrained view that people who are clever deserve the best of everything, without much thought about where that leaves people who have learning disabilities. People like to equate poverty with laziness and wealth with hard work, but we all know deep down that isn't how it is really.

I think lots of people do 'get it' I'm lucky enough to have had a decent upbringing and a decent education, but I'm well aware of my privilege, I've worked with children who are seriously damaged by the cards they've been dealt.

I'd like to live in a world with less inequality, with a universal income so everyone has a decent life. I'd be prepared to pay very high taxes to make it happen.

@TartanJumper

Wow indeed. That poster can not be for real.

Don't worry, I don't think they are. Seen them around a bunch lately and not seen a single post that seems like something someone remotely normal would ever say.

I think the problem is that anybody who works in SS can't comment on threads like these, as it would be really unprofessional. But I think anybody who does would get it. The rest of us, not a clue. I had no idea what went on in my leafy neighbourhood behind closed doors. I really didn't. The least of some of these DC's worries is engaging at school. Just surviving is an achievement, given some of the circumstances.

@wonderstuff

I think this thread demonstrates that lots of people live in a bubble and refuse to accept that we live in a deeply divided society.

There's a deeply engrained view that people who are clever deserve the best of everything, without much thought about where that leaves people who have learning disabilities. People like to equate poverty with laziness and wealth with hard work, but we all know deep down that isn't how it is really.

I think lots of people do 'get it' I'm lucky enough to have had a decent upbringing and a decent education, but I'm well aware of my privilege, I've worked with children who are seriously damaged by the cards they've been dealt.

I'd like to live in a world with less inequality, with a universal income so everyone has a decent life. I'd be prepared to pay very high taxes to make it happen.

What do you mean by "being clever" though? Lots of successful people do not have high IQs, or grew up very poor or with ACEs or any combination of those. Lots of people with high IQs and/ or very privileged childhoods are spectacularly unsuccessful in work and life in general. There are different skills and different kinds of intelligence that need developing in different environments and with different methods.

I think this type of discussion is yet another way of setting up different groups of people to argue with each other rather than think about the specific support that people with different struggles might need to get us as a society somewhere close to equality of opportunity, as much as is possible (and while supporting those who are so vulnerable they can't particupate in that even with support). That is what I think of when I see the word meritocrasy. But I get the impression that for you, you associate the concept with something more brutal, more like what we have now? The social structure we have now is the polar opposite of a meritocracy.

I can't give examples as it would be unprofessional, but many people just can't do well, due to disability or trauma or both. Where do they fit in the meritocracy?

No, I don’t think a lot of people understand what they haven’t experienced. I hate those “life is what you make of it, you make your own luck” type things on Facebook, as often people don’t have a choice in how their life goes. Same as an extremely well off friend making a statement that she was thrilled to have changed careers and anyone who wanted to should just get the courage and go for it. Yeah, not so easy when you don’t have millions to fall back on should if all go pear shaped.

@wonderstuff

I can't give examples as it would be unprofessional, but many people just can't do well, due to disability or trauma or both. Where do they fit in the meritocracy?

As I said in my previous post, a decent society would aim for equality of opportunity while also recognising not everybody can participate in that and providing a decent standard of living for those who can't. It would actually be much more affordable than the current situation where many people do not reach their full potential who could contribute a net benefit as their contributions could help to pay for those in need who cannot.

What do you suggest instead? The status quo where merit has little to do with success? Or something else? Communism? What?

Nothing pisses me off more than people saying everyone can get a good education.

Have you any idea how hard some children find life?

I went to one of the best grammar schools in the country. On paper, I should have had it all. People I went to school with are Surgeons, News presenters, Doctors, you name it, they are doing it.

I’ve been on the bones of my arse.

Because I had to nurse my mum while she was dying from cancer from age 9, while my dad had to work all the shifts under the sun to keep us afloat. Then she died when I was 11 and my dad had a breakdown, so guess who it was down to to look after him?

I was also bullied terribly, couldn’t go to school some days as I got no sleep. I had no one else to turn to, the school didn’t care. they wouldn’t hear that their golden children were bullying me, Inwas just written off as a thick trouble maker, told i was using my home situation as an excuse.

I had to leave at 16 to get a job to help pay the mortgage so we didn’t end up losing everything. My dad was a lot older than my mum and wasn’t coping with working 60 plus hours a week.

The rest of my life hasn’t improved. But thank god i married my husband.

And yes, I’ve been told many times that all that wasn’t an excuse, that children have had it far worse but have overcome it and worked harder. So I guess that’s another thing that is my fault.

My Dad has the attitude that if people worked harder in school, they would not be in poor situations or boring jobs when they grow up. He grew up working class but had a mother invested in his education (she won a scholarship to university but was forbidden from taking it by her father and sent to work in a factory). He got into a good grammer school and had free university and grants etc.

I argue the point with him that he had a lot of advantages. I'm in New Zealand now working with disadvantaged communities. It's not just a case if working hard at school
I see children taking it in turns to go to school because there is only one uniform between them, children embarrassed to go to school because they have no lunch (no free meals here) or are too hungry because they're not fed.

Some children have to look after sick parents or parents with addictions. They can't do homework because they have no place to do it or have to look after their younger siblings.

It's a terrible state if affairs, and not answerable by saying "just work hard and pull yourself up".

Were all the children living in children's homes able to access online education during lockdown?
The children I'm involved in residential were still able to go into school. Not one would attend.
The young people that absolutely refused to go in were given lap tops that were dropped off by teachers to try to get them to engage. When that failed they were given work books. When they refused to do that teachers were sent out to try and do 1 hour a day 1:1 teaching.
It got to the point where a teacher was coming to the building, waiting in hope the child would come to the art room for a lesson and then go away not seeing the youn person. It tricked down to phone calls to see if it was worth turning up for.

I'm not commenting on the reasons why there was a lack of engagement but answering the question from my experience of children in ressi care having access to education during lockdown.

@notacooldad the frustration of trying your best and feeling like you are getting nowhere is part of why I burnt out in youth work. However I do believe that all the interventions still rely on the traditional subjects and a type of learning that only suits a certain student. Why would a teen who has come from a chaotic background be motivated by bismarks naval policy or Shakespeares sonnets? We can't be shocked when they don't engage.
Being more flexible and recognising students natural strengths better serves them and society as a whole rather than trying to get them to fit in a box.

As I said, universal basic income. At the moment disabled people with wealthy families have a layer of security and those without often have a live of poverty. I don't think I have all the answers, socialism obviously has limitations, but there are countries with high taxes and low inequality that seem to be give people a better quality of life than the UK.

I’m sure some decent SEND education exists.

It doesn’t help when County council’s dick around with meetings and paperwork to the point where you have to get various professionals, your MP and a solicitor on board because your child has been out of education for 2 years simply because they’re too disorganised to sort out a place...

Lots of things can prevent a child from accessing and participating in education. I’m amazed that people don’t think that’s the case and anyone who thinks that standards of state education in the UK are the same across the board need to open their eyes and read more into social inequalities and the effects on education.

@Wish21

I'm just wondering if people truly get it sometimes. For example if someone has been lucky enough to have been bought up in a home that was loving supportive was lucky enough to get a good education. Which enabled them to get a well paid job . Which means they can afford a nice home put food on the table afford nice holidays and nice things in general.

Then there are people who did not have that up bringing or a good childhood. They were sexually abused nothing was done about it. They went to a special needs school due to learning difficulties. They never even got to sit an exam. They do not have a standard education there for they will always be in a low paid job. If They are lucky enough to get one . Will always have to rely on some sort of benefit. They will never be able to have a proper home . There's always a risk of Them loosing their home due to landlord selling up or simlar they can't find another home as they rely on housing benefit or UC. So they end up homless in some type of hostel.

Umm my child attends a special school, its outstanding, it provides education on his level he has severe autism and learning disabilities, he would be a fish out of water in a mainstream school.

It actually seems that alot of people do understand. There are a few that don't but I guess that's life . But its definitely nice to see alot of people do understand.

Now I'm wondering have things changed say from the 80s/90s till now?

There are 2 years between me and my nephew we both went to the same special needs school. Only I stayed until 16. But he got moved to a main stream school and got help within the school. We used to live in the same house and the moving school kind of fell into place when we were moving home. I guess my mum arranged for me to go to the local special needs school when we moved. It was spoken about me being moved to a main stream school but my mum and school decided not to because time the holidays were all removed it would not be worth it so it was decided i would stay there. Maybe if I had been a couple years younger I could have been moved. Did main stream schools have what was needed for people like me back then or what I have been forgotten about in a large class?

I hated that school /life so much back then. I never had any friends. Never really spoke to anyone. I used to take mini over doses of paracetamol I would write in my diary T15p today bla bla. Which meant took 15 paracetamol today . I used to end up bring really sick. The school knew what I was doing. But no one ever done anything. Looking back now I think WTF.

It all still effects me now in some ways. Like if there is somthing written but its a mixture of numbers and letters. I can't take any of it in. There are words on this thread that I just don't know what they mean so I have to read round it then and try work out what they mean. Or look them up. But then within a short while I have forgot the meaning. I recently got a report about my son and I found it really hard to read because it was written landscapes (paper sideways)

My son has autism/learning difficulties and is having assessments at school. The school has been great especially hid teacher who pushed for it. I just really hope thatburs better for him and other children now than it used to be.

Sorry if this post feels a bit of an eye roll type post. It's the first time I have really been able to put it into words .

I hated that school /life so much back then. I never had any friends. Never really spoke to anyone. I used to take mini over doses of paracetamol I would write in my diary T15p today bla bla. Which meant took 15 paracetamol today . I used to end up bring really sick. The school knew what I was doing. But no one ever done anything. Looking back now I think WTF.

I was the same. I also used to self harm and would go in to school with huge cuts on my arms. No one batted an eye lid.

The only time I was spoken to was when I was didn’t bother to hand in homework, i would be humiliated in front of the class - the reason was usually that i’d spent the past few days trying to stop my dad from jumping out of a window - Maths homework didn’t really seem as important as keeping my only living relative alive.

I was careful though. I realised that if I kicked up a stink i’d probably be taken into care and I really didn’t want that so I just got on with things.

I’d love to go back and find those teachers and ask them why they had no care or compassion.

I've been a teacher since 2002 and SEN specialist since 2007. Things have changed a lot since the 80s/90s, there has been an attempt to keep as many children in mainstream schools as possible, whether that is a good thing or not has been debated, we don't have the same facilities in mainstream schools and our classes are much bigger. All the special schools in my county are full and we have children not in education or struggling with mainstream who would like to have a special schools place.
I have a friend my age (mid-40s) who was put into special school just because she was in care, that would never happen now.

Those of us working in special or additional needs education are trying really hard to meet the needs of children, but it is an uphill battle, there's never enough money, the mainstream curriculum has not been designed with inclusion in mind and there is still to much discrimination, even teachers and parents of children with disabilities can be incredibly ignorant.