Do people really get it

[Wish21]

I'm just wondering if people truly get it sometimes. For example if someone has been lucky enough to have been bought up in a home that was loving supportive was lucky enough to get a good education. Which enabled them to get a well paid job . Which means they can afford a nice home put food on the table afford nice holidays and nice things in general.

Then there are people who did not have that up bringing or a good childhood. They were sexually abused nothing was done about it. They went to a special needs school due to learning difficulties. They never even got to sit an exam. They do not have a standard education there for they will always be in a low paid job. If They are lucky enough to get one . Will always have to rely on some sort of benefit. They will never be able to have a proper home . There's always a risk of Them loosing their home due to landlord selling up or simlar they can't find another home as they rely on housing benefit or UC. So they end up homless in some type of hostel.

54321nought, my mother grew up poor. This was in the 1940s. She was terrified in school because the teachers would beat a lot of the children, except for the children of wealthy families. She remembers going to school barefoot in the snow, only to have to sit at the back of the class so that the children of doctors could be moved up to the front by the fire- these children were usually drive to school and had leather shoes and warm coats.

Conversely, I grew up wealthy. I was also fortunate enough to be quite bright. I had a good school experience in the 80s/90s. Our primary school headmaster and some of the teachers were absolute thugs. A boy I went to school with had what is now very obvious to me, a severe learning disability. He was tortured by the headmaster. Physically, mentally, emotionally. It was horrific. How that boy did not kill himself, I don’t know.

Absolutely, I don’t think teachers would get away with this today, but to say that everyone you know had equal access to amazing teachers is not true.

[quote Whadda]@Wish21

You must be a teacher.[/quote]
I'm not a teacher far from

And 48+ schools where any lack of education would have been the child's own choice.

Yep, it’s very easy to learn when you’re hungry, or when your mum is assaulted by your dad, or where there’s no enough money for warm, dry shoes, or when you’re moved on between care placements, or when every 3 months the place you live and the people you live with might change, or when you’re dodging drug dealers in the street, or caring for your siblings while your parents are under the influence or in the midst of a mental health crisis, or when you’re being bullied and sexually assaulted in school, or when you don’t have access to the most basic of equipment for school, or when your learning support needs go unmet, or when you have no one advocating for those needs.

Completely the child’s own choice not to learn.

Sorry Wish, that was directed at 54321nought.

Mumsnet is very glitchy for me tonight and keeps defaulting to the opening poster when I try and tag a username, for some reason

And 48+ schools where any lack of education would have been the child's own choice. This comment has made me so so angry

I'm not going to repeat someone else's story on here but there is someone I know who I hold in my mind when I read that comment. It was absolutely not their fault they found school impossible at that time in their life.

Were all the children living in children's homes able to access online education during lockdown?
I know they can get moved around a lot which disrupts their education, they often struggle with not having the right equipment or somewhere to do homework or keep books.

Quite a narrow minded view @54321nought whatever your experience is (and it sounds vast), surely you can see that there are some dc who are victims of circumstance and needs. You can't possibly categorise all dc so easily into a couple of brackets Of those who are willing to learn and those who are not

I think many people don't realise how much "help" a supportive family is & just think their good fortune is only because they worked hard etc.

Nobody will ever truly understand someone else's experiences.

Many (most?) will try to understand, even to empathise.

Some experiences will be far too alien to imagine though.

@54321nought

Not if you have learning difficulties. Yes it's on offer but if you have learning difficulties then you can't follow it.

That child should have an education suitable to them - what sort of learning difficulties?

I agree that children with moderate learning difficulties have a hard time getting reasonable qualifications and finding a job - this is because in the past we had loads of jobs suitable for young people with poor literacy skills - however, these days there is actually more competition for jobs at that level than there is for university places, however hard working, sensible and reliable the young person is

But even so, the education should be suitable for the child - when is it not?

Have you worked in education? Children with learning difficulties in mainstream education are left by the wayside by an education system that values exam results instead of life skills.

God @54321nought posts are depressing

Extremely depressing and are making me angry.
I know very bright children who were failed because of personal circumstances. How can a child go to school hungry, or having been beaten the night before and concentrate on maths and English?
Not every child has the luxury of being able to go home to a safe and warm home and do their homework, or have a parent help them with it or read to them.

@Jellycatspyjamas

And 48+ schools where any lack of education would have been the child's own choice.

Yep, it’s very easy to learn when you’re hungry, or when your mum is assaulted by your dad, or where there’s no enough money for warm, dry shoes, or when you’re moved on between care placements, or when every 3 months the place you live and the people you live with might change, or when you’re dodging drug dealers in the street, or caring for your siblings while your parents are under the influence or in the midst of a mental health crisis, or when you’re being bullied and sexually assaulted in school, or when you don’t have access to the most basic of equipment for school, or when your learning support needs go unmet, or when you have no one advocating for those needs.

Completely the child’s own choice not to learn.

your post is really sad for people who have been through that or simlar. Thank you for posting it because it really gets to the point of showing agar it can be like for people and you have explained it so much better than I have. So it means so much to read it from yoir view point.

Completely the child’s own choice not to learn.

Wow!

Wow indeed.
That poster can not be for real.

Also, more and more is being understood about neurodevelopment and how crucial the early years are. More and more it is being shown early abuse affects the whole body. It affects the ability of children to regulate their emotions, their stress response, their ability to concentrate and so so much more. And without early, tailored intervention these effects are long term. Those with high ACE scores are more likely to die earlier than those without.

But to answer your question, no. I don't think people who have not experienced what you describe really understand. Even most therapists/psychiatrists I've sat with don't get it, not truly.

And then as an added kick in the teeth you get ignorant people like @54321nought victim blaming.

@54321nought

Almost everyone in the UK is offered an excellent education. This is extremely simplistic - being in the right frame of mind is not easy when life is shit

that is true, which is why there are million and millions of pounds worth of support and resources for children who are not "in the right frame of mind"

Hmmmm. And why we have such a high proportionof illiterate adults who also can't do basic maths, I suppose? The quality of the education is excellent, apparently, but the population have some kind of collective resistance to learning.

Or perhaps the standard of schooling in UK state schools is pathetic by international standards, primarily due to it not being properly funded.

@bananamushy

God *@54321nought* posts are depressing

And utterly maddening. I think the fact that a teacher can lack empathy to such an extent kind of proves the point many of us are making here.

54321Nought, my brother fosters children. He currently has a child with him who was never taught to use a towel. Literally grew up in a house with no towels at all- facecloths, bath towels, hand towels, tea towels, dishcloths, floor rags; nothing. Imagine getting to the age of 8 and not knowing what a towel is?
He’s also malnourished, and had fleas and scabies.

Do you think a child like that arrives to school and has the ability to decide whether or not they want to be able to learn that day? Do you think a child like that goes home to parents who help with their homework, given them a suitable place to do their studies, and a decent meal to help their body and brain grow? Do you think a parent like that is up at 7am to give the child breakfast, have his uniform ready, and get him to the school gate in time for classes with a lunchbox packed with a healthy meal to get them through the day?

The fact that you think that a child controls their life when all odds are stacked against them disgusts me.

@54321nought is proving the OPs point.
Ill never truly get it. I work in the area of social care and I would like to think I empathise hugely but I will never understand how it feels.
What @54321nought is forgetting that those who don't come from ideal circumstances are starting the race with weight around them. Yes, hard work and perseverance will get them far, maybe even ahead but they have to work much harder and for much longer than those who have all the advantages. It's sad that someone in education doesnt realise this.
I work in a field that's not particularly well paid. Sometimes I panic and I am trying to get myself into a higher paid field however I know I will likely never experience homelessness, electricity being switched off or going hungry as I have parents who are relatively well off who would help me out in a heartbeat. If I had a bad relationship with them, or if they were living from paycheck to paycheck as I am then I would be a much more vulnerable position. Just by the sheer luck that I was born into my family, I have peace of mind that allows me not to lay awake at night worrying about the roof over my head, its a very privileged position to be in.

I'd like to think they are a troll

@54321nought

lucky enough to get a good education

Eveyone in the UK should get a good education

There are the occasional extreme circumstances when it doesn't happen, but a good education is on offer to almost everyone

Of course, not everyone engages in it

I can't believe anyone could be so ignorant as to think that because a good education is 'on offer' to all, that it must just be a child's unwillingness to engage that would prevent them from getting a good education.

There are kids sitting in class with growling stomachs, who never got breakfast or dinner the night before. Pretty difficult to concentrate or engage like that.
Kids that spend the school day worrying about what they are going home to.
Kids whose parents don't get up in the morning, don't wake them or take them to school.
Kids that will never be asked about their homework in their life.

This isn't as 'occasional' or 'extreme' as you'd like to think, or perhaps in your bubble of particular privilege it is.

Answers OP's question though, clearly some people will never understand and can't even begin to imagine the reality for the disadvantaged.
Probably just easier to blame the individual and continue to pretend the playing field is level.

I think the best that those of us who have been blessed can do is to "get" that we can't ever really "get it" Its the same with lots of human experience. I am widowed and hated it when people said stuff like "I know how you feel"
that's not to say that we shouldn't use our own bad times and experiences to help us to understand.
as for the "no dining room where will you eat?" thing....I mean what century was that person lving in?

@bananamushy, @TartanJumper I think your sarcasm meter might need adjusting - I was making the point that in the face of all that adversity a child’s “choice” to access education is utterly compromised.

@Jellycatspyjamas

And 48+ schools where any lack of education would have been the child's own choice.

Yep, it’s very easy to learn when you’re hungry, or when your mum is assaulted by your dad, or where there’s no enough money for warm, dry shoes, or when you’re moved on between care placements, or when every 3 months the place you live and the people you live with might change, or when you’re dodging drug dealers in the street, or caring for your siblings while your parents are under the influence or in the midst of a mental health crisis, or when you’re being bullied and sexually assaulted in school, or when you don’t have access to the most basic of equipment for school, or when your learning support needs go unmet, or when you have no one advocating for those needs.

Completely the child’s own choice not to learn.

I agree, those circumstances make it much harder. However, I know many people who have been through childhoods similar to what you describe (often including many of these factors at once) and are now settled and happy and successful. And many who had far happier and secure childhoods who are not. It's far more complex that your post implies.

There are people who could walk through pouring rain, not get hit by a single drop and still not see how they've been lucky compared to others.